People dropping FI setups like hot potatoes

What would you choose if you had the money

  • Fi setup

    Votes: 29 35.4%

  • Carburetor

    Votes: 47 57.3%

  • Who cares, i ride donkeys

    Votes: 4 4.9%

  • I like polls

    Votes: 2 2.4%
  • Total voters
    82
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AJ/FormS said:
The only carb that ever gave me a hard time was a Holley 2bbl in an late70s/early80s 360 van (2210?) . ...
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Friend of mine had one of these on a 74? Dodge 1/2T shortie pu. We later swapped a 440 into that truck. The darn Holley 2bbl would "stick" the butterflies at idle, causing a jerk at the gas pedal when they released. Caused partly by engine vacuum, did not do this when not running. And, it was a "smog" carb, lean as can be up here in the cold of the N end
 
The difference between the carb and F.I. is that when the carb goes bad you can fix it. When my F.I. quit on me I had no idea where to begin to trouble shoot. Why it only started when cold put a real monkey wrench in my trying to figure it out. Maybe system wasn't road tested enough before it was marketed. Just like new car recalls we hear all the time. Usually what goes bad on new cars is all the technology that has been rushed to the market to be called new and improved and we were the first to have it.
 
Most decent EFI setups have data logging. I would have thought you could have gotten something out of that. Just like a carb, you need compression, fuel, and spark It's not always "that easy" but many times it is.
 
The irony is that "the big death" that I've experienced was the junk Dakota I fixed up. I had gone out to meet a member here for coffee---who I'd never met before, and he had to give me a ride home. The Dakota fuel pump died, "just like that" with no warning. I pulled the bed on the hoist---which is actually easier than pulling the (especially full) tank

The "Deadkota"

It's...........it's..........it's the Deadkota!!

img_1252cs-jpg.jpg
 
67Dart273 said:
Most decent EFI setups have data logging. I would have thought you could have gotten something out of that. Just like a carb, you need compression, fuel, and spark It's not always "that easy" but many times it is.
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Ive looked into EFI just from the data logging side of things.

In the end, I can spend a ton of money on a fully adjustable carb and all the brass I want plus buy a stand alone data logger and be much cheaper in the end.

I still say if carbs and EFI had to run together in Pro Stock the EFI deal would be lucky to be as good. Unless the EFI is given something, or you take something away from the carbs.

Any induction, scoop or not and let the run side by each and see what happens. And screw the RPM limit.

BTW, all this is familiar who races or or watches dirt bike racing. The junky 4 strokes get 100% more displacement in the 250 class and 85% more displacement in the 450 class than the 2 stroke does. They also change not only the layout but the timing of the jumps of the tracks to benefit the 4 stroke.

It's the same with EFI in Pro Stock. Take away the hood scoop...kills the carb. Take away the tunnel ram (goes along with the scoop) and it kills the carb.
 
Even if data logging told me my ECU was bad how do you fix it? 10 miles from home had to get out of the gas station I was stuck in and flat bed it home.
 
67Dart273 said:
The biggest problems with EFI are the owners who install them. EMI/ RFI is likely the biggest culprit, followed closely by things like ground loops

I'm not sure I agree that they are going like hot potatoes, or dropping like flies. Remember, there are vast more numbers of DIY EFI now than there was just 5 years ago. I cannot even name all the brands, Holley, Edelbrock, FAST, FItech, Megasquirt, some small companies I don't know about or cant remember. And remember, some classes of NHRA and NASCAR are now EFI, both Holley
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But not everybody is the electrical genius that you are. Your answers to electrical questions on this forum are legendary. That being said, I seriously considered buying an EFI unit about a year ago. I heard of so many people having problems with FI systems that I decided to stick with my carb. I think that if a company is going to market an FI system as easy to install, self tuning and reliable, that is exactly what it should be. I can't imagine that all the people who have reported problems made errors on installation. Plus, if the instructions are as bad as the instructions for my SSBC front disk brake conversion or my Classic Auto Air AC unit (and believe me they were both HORRIBLE), I would guess that is part of the problem.

70aarcuda said:
well...if you follow the instruction and the **** does not work correctly....is it the installer fault....suppose to be self learning....just install and fire up.....i guess not...
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Agree.
 
harrisonm said:
If the instructions are as bad as the instructions for my SSBC front disk brake conversion or my Classic Auto Air AC unit (and believe me they were both HORRIBLE), I would guess that is part of the problem.


Agree.
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No kidding, my friend!
I did a CAA kit in my '70 Charger late last summer. The people that write instructions for many installations seem to write them for people that have already done them before. I fumbled through but made plenty of mistakes.
Same goes for the garage door opener install. Liftmaster.....GREAT unit, terrible instructions.
 
MOPAROFFICIAL said:
Tossed at least 50 -100 over my shoulder...
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My fast 2.0 has been really reliable so far , tech help (Dave) was great back when I first started messing with it . It does have a limp home mode built into it for any problem , according to the instr. , HOPE LIKE ALL GET OUT , I never need it !
 
AJ/FormS said:
...
But my secret weapon is the dash-mounted, dial-back, electronic timing control, and modest initial timing, with a glorious 22/24 degrees in the Vcan....
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Sounds like you have that machine dialed in.
What does a fellow need to get one of these dash-mounted ignition timing boxes setup? I don't personally know anyone who is running something like this...
 
i don't know. i see people ditching the cheap *** units like that fiTech more then i see people ditching quality units. it also seems most of the issues are poor installs like stated already. i'm sure even the quality systems have their defects like anything but nothing like the cheap stuff.

personally i'm looking into a sniper set up. a friend has had a EZ-EFI from FAST on his car for probably close to 10 years now and its been great for him and thats from when this was all new stuff. had a friend pull his fitech off and went with a megasquirt set up. said you get what you pay for with the fitech set up. i'm sure not scared of the quality kits out today..
 
abodyjoe said:
i don't know. i see people ditching the cheap *** units like that fiTech more then i see people ditching quality units. it also seems most of the issues are poor installs like stated already. i'm sure even the quality systems have their defects like anything but nothing like the cheap stuff.

personally i'm looking into a sniper set up. a friend has had a EZ-EFI from FAST on his car for probably close to 10 years now and its been great for him and thats from when this was all new stuff. had a friend pull his fitech off and went with a megasquirt set up. said you get what you pay for with the fitech set up. i'm sure not scared of the quality kits out today..
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Don't be fooled @abodyjoe the Sniper has the same problems the FItech does. I follow both groups on FB. I have the FItech unit, but I haven't fired the motor yet. @superchargeddrt has a FItech on his motor, how is yours working out?
 
plumkrazee70 said:
Don't be fooled @abodyjoe the Sniper has the same problems the FItech does. I follow both groups on FB. I have the FItech unit, but I haven't fired the motor yet. @superchargeddrt has a FItech on his motor, how is yours working out?
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What are you hearing is the failure point on these units? The one thing that I have read is that the ECU's fail from heat since they are built right into the throttle bodies. I just wanted to see if you where hearing of anything else. I have been looking into the Holley Terminator, since the ECU is firewall mounted, be laptop tuned, and if I understand correctly, can be adapted to MPI if you want it in the future.

On another note, my main gripe with the current MPI units is the insistence to use a single plane manifold. They do it out of ease, not because it works better for a street engine in particular. Granted they still have good throttle response, but do give up low end torque. If you look at the OE manifolds, they are designed with long runner.
 
DrEamer said:
What are you hearing is the failure point on these units? The one thing that I have read is that the ECU's fail from heat since they are built right into the throttle bodies. I just wanted to see if you where hearing of anything else. I have been looking into the Holley Terminator, since the ECU is firewall mounted, be laptop tuned, and if I understand correctly, can be adapted to MPI if you want it in the future.

On another note, my main gripe with the current MPI units is the insistence to use a single plane manifold. They do it out of ease, not because it works better for a street engine in particular. Granted they still have good throttle response, but do give up low end torque. If you look at the OE manifolds, they are designed with long runner.
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It depends, everything from sticking injectors to RFI noise, etc. I have heard of ECU failures, bit FItech has been great replacing them under warranty. Not sure if the "cause" tho. The sticking injectors seemed to be because folks aren't using a good filter rated at 10 microns, but to be fair the FItech instructions were poor. I've just been watching and learning from mistakes.

If I could do it all over again, I'd get the Edelbrock pro-flo for. But I already have this unit, so I may as well use it.
 
DrEamer said:
What are you hearing is the failure point on these units? The one thing that I have read is that the ECU's fail from heat since they are built right into the throttle bodies. I just wanted to see if you where hearing of anything else. I have been looking into the Holley Terminator, since the ECU is firewall mounted, be laptop tuned, and if I understand correctly, can be adapted to MPI if you want it in the future.

On another note, my main gripe with the current MPI units is the insistence to use a single plane manifold. They do it out of ease, not because it works better for a street engine in particular. Granted they still have good throttle response, but do give up low end torque. If you look at the OE manifolds, they are designed with long runner.
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If done correctly, the single plane intake will out power a dual plane intake every single time.

Even a cursory study of air flow would teach anyone that putting a corner in a moving column of air is bad. Now add fuel to that column of air, and it's 10 times worse.

You have to build around the intake. A dual plane intake is worthless. It doesn't do anything better.
 
yellow rose said:
If done correctly, the single plane intake will out power a dual plane intake every single time.

Even a cursory study of air flow would teach anyone that putting a corner in a moving column of air is bad. Now add fuel to that column of air, and it's 10 times worse.

You have to build around the intake. A dual plane intake is worthless. It doesn't do anything better.
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Of course a single plane will get more total horsepower, but most of the time at a loss to low end torque. Please reread my statement, I said in street applications. I know you love the high RPM builds even for you consider street builds, but that is not everyones cup of tea. A dual plane does have its place, mostly low to moderate RPM engines that see little track time.
 
DrEamer said:
Of course a single plane will get more total horsepower, but most of the time at a loss to low end torque. Please reread my statement, I said in street applications. I know you love the high RPM builds even for you consider street builds, but that is not everyones cup of tea. A dual plane does have its place, mostly low to moderate RPM engines that see little track time.
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Been doing it on STREET builds since 1980.

Again, if you do it correctly, a single plane intake is better everywhere.

And, a properly set up tunnel ram will outpwer the single plane single 4 everywhere.

It's that simple.
 
MRGTX said:
Sounds like you have that machine dialed in.
What does a fellow need to get one of these dash-mounted ignition timing boxes setup? I don't personally know anyone who is running something like this...
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Remote timing control ,MSD
Used to be called MSD "Ping Control"
I have the orginal ping control u it, brand new from smokey's speed shop. Sat on a shelf for 25 yrs.... now 30+ I have never hooked it up yet...but will on my stroker. It has 12 degrees -/+ adjustment from the actual set timing
 
On the fence at this point. I have a D100 with a 318 that will be the test mule. I’m leaning toward the Sniper. A lot of good info on that system. FITEC’s command center is still a problem. Not sure on tech support however our local SoCal Speed Shop has regular tech sessions from a FITEC rep.
 
dart4forte said:
On the fence at this point. I have a D100 with a 318 that will be the test mule. I’m leaning toward the Sniper. A lot of good info on that system. FITEC’s command center is still a problem. Not sure on tech support however our local SoCal Speed Shop has regular tech sessions from a FITEC rep.
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The command centerd was a great idea, but it's garbage. The only way to do EFI my opinion is to get an in tank pump setup, from tanks inc. Couple that with two good filters (100 micron and 10 micron).
 
plumkrazee70 said:
Don't be fooled @abodyjoe the Sniper has the same problems the FItech does. I follow both groups on FB. I have the FItech unit, but I haven't fired the motor yet. @superchargeddrt has a FItech on his motor, how is yours working out?
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Mine is functioning well. Definitely works better now that I have a stroker and not a supercharged engine. Throttle response is crisp and idles well, runs well and pulls hard One thing I found was that you shouldn't be hung up on the 10 or lower IAC counts. Run it where it runs best, mine idles well at 50.
 
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