Performance Questions 225 vs. 360

Slant 6 Engines

  1. 273

    273 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,377
    Likes Received:
    1104
    Joined:
    May 14, 2012
    Location:
    Ontario
    Local Time:
    8:36 AM
    I concede that your right a N/A 360 cannot be built to make 500+hp and be streetable and be done cheaper than a turbo /6, under those rules you win.
     
  2. Bill Dedman

    Bill Dedman bill dedman Legendary Member

    Messages:
    4,006
    Likes Received:
    59
    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2007
    Location:
    Conway, Arkansas
    Local Time:
    6:36 AM
    Don't you think that comparing the output of a 225 cubic inch N/A engine to a V8 that has 360 cubic inches is apples to oranges?

    I do.

    There has to be some sort of method to achieve parity, because giving one engine a sixty percent larger swept volume (225 X 1.6 = 360) is not exactly apples/apples, is it?

    In this case, it's turbocharging.

    225 + hairdryer = a fighting chance against an engine that is 60% larger.

    Doesn't that make sense? It does to me...

    YMMV...
     
  3. Bill Dedman

    Bill Dedman bill dedman Legendary Member

    Messages:
    4,006
    Likes Received:
    59
    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2007
    Location:
    Conway, Arkansas
    Local Time:
    6:36 AM

    I am not trying to "WIN" anything; I just think it's interesting to compare different ways of doing things.

    I will concede that the complexity of putting a turbo on a slant six (or, any engine, for that matter) is one GOOD reason not to do it. Look at the pictures of our carburetor and all the band-aids we need and hoops we have to jump through to get this thing to work.


    It's NOT cheap nor is it easy.

    But, it's effective IF you have the patience to deal with all the BS.

    The 500 hp motors are not that different from a 300 hp motor; they need forged pistons and aftermarket rods, but not much else; maybe a better header. Mainly, they just need more boost and the ability to live (and, not detonate) under the increased boost.

    But overall, I don't think these motors are that expensive to build.

    I'd LOVE to see Ryan's engine in Guzzi Mark's 2350-pound Valiant.

    Talk about a flyer...

    Johnny Dart's beautiful slant six just needs a hairdryer with his existing 4bbl, a different cam and a ported, big-valve head (may already have that last item,) to run head-to-head with his 360 (I would bet) but, I don't think he wants to do it.

    It IS more money, and complication, for sure...

    But, I feel just as sure that it would work.

    Probably never know...

    Thanks for being realistic!!!:cheers:
     

    Attached Files:

  4. 273

    273 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,377
    Likes Received:
    1104
    Joined:
    May 14, 2012
    Location:
    Ontario
    Local Time:
    8:36 AM
    The OP'er main question should he spend $1000-$1500 dropping in a 360/5.9 or could he spent that money on a go fast parts for the /6 and would it get him in the 360 power range. There 3 low K 5.9 in my area for around $500 that leave $1000 to install it and have 280-320 hp on tap (depending on Headers or manifolds), the 5.9 in my Cherokee
    Is fast in a A-Body that weighs 1000lbs less should be a rocket more than enough and be streetable sure a turbos /6 is an option but really dollar for dollar a low K running 5.9 is the best bang for the buck.
     
  5. srixon4406

    srixon4406 TURBO TOAD

    Messages:
    1,306
    Likes Received:
    88
    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2010
    Location:
    Clarklake Mich
    Local Time:
    8:36 AM
    Here's a low budget turbo slant build
    Super six intake $100
    Holley 390 or 500 two barrel modified with hanger 18 mods $150
    Pishta U bend pipe and flanges( high end price) $150
    Walbro 392 fuel pump $100
    Mallory 4309 fuel reg $ 100
    Cold side piping and coupler kit under $100
    Hotside piping $150 maximum
    Carb hat $150
    Grand national turbo or similar model $250
    Different lines and fittings $150
    That comes to a grand total of $1400 alot of parts can be found cheaper
    I'd also get a a/f gauge but one isn't need but helps a ton when it's time to tune
    This setup would be good for about 10 psi of boost and would probably net around 250hp
    [​IMG]
     
  6. Bill Dedman

    Bill Dedman bill dedman Legendary Member

    Messages:
    4,006
    Likes Received:
    59
    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2007
    Location:
    Conway, Arkansas
    Local Time:
    6:36 AM
    That's a pretty good bang for the buck setup, Aaron. I was wondering if an alky injector would enable another 5 psi of boost for another 30 hp? I have Snowperformance Boost Coolers on both of my cars, but at $300.00+, they are getting a little expensive. I think there are spray injectors for less money than that, burt I don't know where.

    What do you think about that idea?

    Thanks for the information!!!:blob:
     
  7. srixon4406

    srixon4406 TURBO TOAD

    Messages:
    1,306
    Likes Received:
    88
    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2010
    Location:
    Clarklake Mich
    Local Time:
    8:36 AM
    Bill everything I've read and researched suggested water injection isn't needed till one starts going over 12psi of boost in fact I don't have mine como on till 10psi

    How's things going on your end Bill? I've gotten most of the bugs worked out of the valiant but the fuel tank still has to be dropped and the tank needs a good cleaning which I'm hoping to get started on that in the next day or two other then that and the weather is getting to cold to do much testing I can't get the car to hook up to the pavement
    Damn I should put a small block in and maybe I wouldn't have this problem :burnout:
     
  8. kittypancake

    kittypancake Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    623
    Likes Received:
    78
    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2011
    Location:
    ct
    Local Time:
    7:36 AM
    BENCH RACING! The cheapest kind of racing there, and you can drink a cup of while you're doing it!
     
  9. Bill Dedman

    Bill Dedman bill dedman Legendary Member

    Messages:
    4,006
    Likes Received:
    59
    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2007
    Location:
    Conway, Arkansas
    Local Time:
    6:36 AM
    I agree with all of that, but 15 pounds was the intended goal, which WOULD benefit from spray. (10 + 5 = 15)

    The idea was that at 15 pounds of boost, maybe 280 HP would be a reality, which would fit the requrement of equalling a stock, N/A 360's output.

    I thought I'd remembered reading of a cheaper alternative to a SnowPerformance Boost Cooler ($330.00) Stage I unit.

    What do you use?
     
  10. Bill Dedman

    Bill Dedman bill dedman Legendary Member

    Messages:
    4,006
    Likes Received:
    59
    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2007
    Location:
    Conway, Arkansas
    Local Time:
    6:36 AM
    And, you don't ever break anything, doing it!!!! :blob:
     
  11. Sully1190

    Sully1190 Look. It's a Gold Duster.

    Messages:
    505
    Likes Received:
    17
    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2011
    Location:
    Clinton, MS
    Local Time:
    7:36 AM
    You're right. I should just run out and start throwing things in my car without checking with the experts first ;)
     
  12. Sully1190

    Sully1190 Look. It's a Gold Duster.

    Messages:
    505
    Likes Received:
    17
    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2011
    Location:
    Clinton, MS
    Local Time:
    7:36 AM
    Indeed. Yet, I think they're still going and just ignoring us at this point. But like I said, I like having the info. I might do a turbo six one day just for fun. It's good to know both what they can do, and how it all stacks up for the money. It's definitely interesting.
     
  13. Sully1190

    Sully1190 Look. It's a Gold Duster.

    Messages:
    505
    Likes Received:
    17
    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2011
    Location:
    Clinton, MS
    Local Time:
    7:36 AM
    Thank you! This was very helpful. I will definitely be archiving this information.
     
  14. Babyblue66

    Babyblue66 Cool dude

    Messages:
    683
    Likes Received:
    5
    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2007
    Location:
    In an apartment, MN
    Local Time:
    7:36 AM
    Agreed.
     
  15. kittypancake

    kittypancake Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    623
    Likes Received:
    78
    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2011
    Location:
    ct
    Local Time:
    7:36 AM
    A complete joke...that continues to get get re-read and multiple posts by by the one who dubbed it as such :D

    I'm loving the debate and getting new info...

    Now that the OP'er has stated he may not keep this car...I've changed my opinion...on the question of whether or not to modify the Slant or swap in a 360, I now say, "NEITHER!" Fix what you have until you've decided.
     
  16. Sully1190

    Sully1190 Look. It's a Gold Duster.

    Messages:
    505
    Likes Received:
    17
    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2011
    Location:
    Clinton, MS
    Local Time:
    7:36 AM
    Well there's nothing necessarily broken about what I have, and I mean long-term on the getting rid of it. I'll have it another year, at least. I was getting the info because I was about to paint the engine bay, so I was going to have the engine out anyways. ^^ Figured it'd be a good time to do something if I was going to.
     
  17. 273

    273 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,377
    Likes Received:
    1104
    Joined:
    May 14, 2012
    Location:
    Ontario
    Local Time:
    8:36 AM
    Since you got it out and don't seem to care too much about power, swap on a super intake and exhaust and a upgrade the cam to even the mildest performance cam got to be an improvement over stock might give you 25hp extra but that would be an almost 25% improvement make a little more fun to drive.
     
  18. CoronetRTguy

    CoronetRTguy Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    347
    Likes Received:
    73
    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2009
    Local Time:
    7:36 AM
    Taging to read this for later.
     
  19. Johnny Dart

    Johnny Dart Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    7,876
    Likes Received:
    2379
    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2006
    Location:
    So Cal
    Local Time:
    5:36 AM
    So yes,of course we can agree that supercharging,or throwing the wife's hair dryer on "Any" motor,is going to improve the HP. Goes without saying.

    So,in the event you want to build your slant motor (without Ma's hair dryer).
    Here is an example,with my build.
    225-30 over
    Ported/Shaved head .100
    Oversize valves
    340 springs
    9:5-1 compression
    Erson camshaft
    Clifford intake water cooled/heated
    Clifford intake
    Ede 500cfm
    FBO elec ignition (I designed with Don).
    1" Phenolic spacer
    2into1 2.25"exh 40 series Flowmaster.

    I didn't cut any corners with this motor,and it is a blast to drive.I kept the /6 in because of the rarity of the car,1-23.
    How often do you see a 1965 factory Hurst 4spd /6 conv Dart ?
    In reality,if the car wasn't so rare,it would have had a hot little small block in it years ago.
    Anyways,I wanted to post a pic of my slant car,to let you know I'm not some kind of hack. I think these are great motors,and the nostalgia factor is definately there. With the 4spd,this car is a hoot to drive,and yes,I terrorize the neighborhood on a regular basis.

    The possibilities are endless. A plan and a budget is all it takes.
    Maybe just clean/tune up what you have for now,and see where the road takes you.
     

    Attached Files:

  20. Johnny Dart

    Johnny Dart Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    7,876
    Likes Received:
    2379
    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2006
    Location:
    So Cal
    Local Time:
    5:36 AM
    Having said that,this is a different animal...:D
     

    Attached Files:

  21. Bill Dedman

    Bill Dedman bill dedman Legendary Member

    Messages:
    4,006
    Likes Received:
    59
    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2007
    Location:
    Conway, Arkansas
    Local Time:
    6:36 AM
    Thanks for the pictures! You surely have two great-looking Mopars there. I really like the bumblebee stripe on the convertible!
     
  22. Sully1190

    Sully1190 Look. It's a Gold Duster.

    Messages:
    505
    Likes Received:
    17
    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2011
    Location:
    Clinton, MS
    Local Time:
    7:36 AM
    Two very sexual mopars, Johnny. That convertible is drop dead gorgeous. I have never doubted your skill or opinion, don't worry. ^^
     
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalize content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.