Pertronix II users

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22dog22

22dog22

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Hi wanted to know ,have 69 Cuda, 318 auto, with mild cam, headers, Holley carb, people using a Pertronix system Ignitor II dist and coil, what spark plugs are you using , the gap they are set at, and engine modifications. Trying to get a handle on my problem of no start, have gotten to the point where I have the 318 running, now able to give it some gas [throttle] and the engine now revs up, but got a backfire out of carb. [ before giving it throttle the engine did nothing], I have the Pertronix dist and Flame Thrower II coil , running NGK gr4gp platinum plugs gapped at .35, other person on this site felt should regap to .40-.45 because of the hi output coil [ Flame Thrower II 45,000 volts]. Back story, I bought a slightly used Pertronix II dist. D141710, was told by the person he only used it to break in his engine on line from Evil Bay. Istalled the dist, with my old Speedmaster high output coil, I may have damaged the Pertronix Igniter II unit inside, since could not get it to barely run, ran really really rough, if try to give it throttle it did nothing and would die. Have since replaced the Igniter II unit in the dist. have been able to start car now, runs a little better, removed the spark plugs all 8 where carboned up, I think because they where not firing, cleaned them up and as stated I have NGK gaped at .35, started car was running a lot better, was able to give it throttle, so now it would rev up and it smoothed out , but when I let the throttle go, got a back fire out the carb. so I think I need to advanced the timing, also replacing the plugs will try Champion rn12yc before trying to do any more work and adjustments [timing] . Have been battling with this problem since early this year!
 
I have a 318 with trickflows, a pertronix II and pertronix coil, i run Autolite 3924(recommended by Trickflow) at .035.. no missing or issues.
 
BTW. if your plugs were so bad that you cleaned them and it ran a bit better.. go buy new plugs.. you will chase your tail and go nuts over one crabon trace causing a miss/backfire...

(just read at the bottom of your post that that's your plan :) )
 
69 barracuda fastback S mild 340/auto/3000 stall torque converter/3.55sg/factory avs carb/factory cast iron dizzy converted with pertronix ll/matching coil with Taylor wires/ e3 plugs (.46)/iron 2.02 J heads/// HUGE difference in throttle response !!!!
 
jazak5 said:
69 barracuda fastback S mild 340/auto/3000 stall torque converter/3.55sg/factory avs carb/factory cast iron dizzy converted with pertronix ll/matching coil with Taylor wires/ e3 plugs (.46)/iron 2.02 J heads/// HUGE difference in throttle response !!!!
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Jaz, how long have you had that setup? My pertronix is pretty new so i worry bout it.. i am keeping a points dist in the trunk with my emergency **** :)
 
Icetech said:
Jaz, how long have you had that setup? My pertronix is pretty new so i worry bout it.. i am keeping a points dist in the trunk with my emergency **** :)
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3yrs and about 10.000 miles
 
You have the correct plugs, NGK 4 range. Putting in Champion 12s is a colder plug, which will cause MORE misfires because the colder plug cannot burn off the carbon deposits. You need to find out why the plugs are carboning up....& fix that.
 
22dog22 said:
Hi wanted to know ,have 69 Cuda, 318 auto, with mild cam, headers, Holley carb, people using a Pertronix system Ignitor II dist and coil, what spark plugs are you using , the gap they are set at, and engine modifications. Trying to get a handle on my problem of no start, have gotten to the point where I have the 318 running, now able to give it some gas [throttle] and the engine now revs up, but got a backfire out of carb. [ before giving it throttle the engine did nothing], I have the Pertronix dist and Flame Thrower II coil , running NGK gr4gp platinum plugs gapped at .35, other person on this site felt should regap to .40-.45 because of the hi output coil [ Flame Thrower II 45,000 volts]. Back story, I bought a slightly used Pertronix II dist. D141710, was told by the person he only used it to break in his engine on line from Evil Bay. Istalled the dist, with my old Speedmaster high output coil, I may have damaged the Pertronix Igniter II unit inside, since could not get it to barely run, ran really really rough, if try to give it throttle it did nothing and would die. Have since replaced the Igniter II unit in the dist. have been able to start car now, runs a little better, removed the spark plugs all 8 where carboned up, I think because they where not firing, cleaned them up and as stated I have NGK gaped at .35, started car was running a lot better, was able to give it throttle, so now it would rev up and it smoothed out , but when I let the throttle go, got a back fire out the carb. so I think I need to advanced the timing, also replacing the plugs will try Champion rn12yc before trying to do any more work and adjustments [timing] . Have been battling with this problem since early this year!
Click to expand...

This description is exactly how a backwards wired distributor pickup coil acts when the wires get switched.

In that case the spark is not aligned with the contacts on the distributor cap, and reving it makes it worse.
It causes backfires and plugs loading up.
 
Icetech said:
Jaz, how long have you had that setup? My pertronix is pretty new so i worry bout it.. i am keeping a points dist in the trunk with my emergency **** :)
Click to expand...
I ran a Mallory Unilite for 15 years, module went bad, put another module in, that went bad in two weeks. Then put a single point distributor in, fixed firewall connections, cleaned ign switch connections, new ign switch, and now running Pertronix. I think majority of time these units burn up because there is an underlying electrical issue with the car. But the electronic system gets the blame.

To prevent problems make sure volts at coil correct, primary coil resistance correct, voltage drops across various points in electrical circuits low, and charging system in top shape. Some systems can burn up key on engine off. Good healthy electrical system should minimize chance of problems.
 
I have been running the pertronix Ignitor II on 2 vehicles now since 2007, They both work great. I wouldn't hesitate to use them again when needed.
Biggest issue is the rotor they use is a different diameter than stock.. I was forever chasing a bad miss at idle from the rotor not engaging the magnet trigger correctly. Once I went back to OE pertronix rotor all was well again.
 
Big.J.007 said:
I have been running the pertronix Ignitor II on 2 vehicles now since 2007, They both work great. I wouldn't hesitate to use them again when needed.
Biggest issue is the rotor they use is a different diameter than stock.. I was forever chasing a bad miss at idle from the rotor not engaging the magnet trigger correctly. Once I went back to OE pertronix rotor all was well again.
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ok, that's a long time.. i feel better about it :)
 
I run stock coils and the the ballast with the Pertronix II units in stock distributors on 5 cars with thousands of combined miles. I was power electronics engineer for my career and I have alway thought the stresses on that module with the low impedance coils was way to high for a dependable street engine. Drag strip runs only fine. You are slamming that module with 13v/.6 ohms = over 21A of current for every plug fire. I have 13v/(1.5 ohm + 1.5 ohm) = 4.3A of current. There is zero reason to make 45000 volts when a plug fires at about 18000 and once it fires takes much less than that to continue the flame. That 45000V volt stuff it only for advertising.
 
I run their 1.5ohm coil.. soo should be 8.66A... not that worried bout that... not sure why guys swear you need a .6ohm coil when pertronix own paperwork says (i think) 1.6 or below..
 
The other thing, is some cars charge battery at 13 volts, some 14, some higher, some lower, so run time voltage on these cars is all over the place. Mine is 14.75 volts after driving car around a while so on the high side.

Like Jim says above, go a little high on that primary resistance and that should take a lot of load off ignition module

I am running Pertronix Igniter I, 1.5 ohm auto parts store coil and .8 ohm ballast for total of 2.3 ohms. Pertronix Igniter I instructions say 1.5 - 4.5 ohms primary so I am right in middle of that range. I could bypass ballast potentially get more volts to plugs but would have more stress on ignition module. And my running volts are on the high side to boot too.
 
Icetech said:
I run their 1.5ohm coil.. soo should be 8.66A... not that worried bout that... not sure why guys swear you need a .6ohm coil when pertronix own paperwork says (i think) 1.6 or below..
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Depends on if its Igniter I, II, or III the specs on primary resistance are different across the product versions
 
Remember that the power that the module chip as to dissipate is Current Squared so if you half the current you lower the stresses by a factor of 4 in some of the power generating effects. That module does not have very good thermal heat dissipation path. It on that advance isolated plate so there will be a place where the thermal runs away if you dump too much heat into it.
 
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Have taken a beak with my no run problem. To date I have checked for power at all times for ignition 1&2 , have replaced the ignition Pertronix II unit the Pertronix distributor, have the correct new coil for the Ignitor II , that Pertronix calls for. replaced spark plug wires, inc. coil wire have 8mm wires. can get engine to fire runs very very poorly, get worst and will just shut down since it is running so bad, so I do not have must time to check timing, vac . leaks, I think haveI ruled out electrical problems. Put in fresh spark plugs, cars does not run any better. I had installed a new Holley street warrior carb. p/n 0-80457s I think it is a 600 cfm unit, is long out of any warranty from them, I feel the engine running so poorly is carb. related. Is it hard to due a carb. rebuilt on something,? like there is only on be 25 miles on the carb.
 
Did you bypass the ballast to power the ignitor? When putting the cap on, does the rotor spring arm stick up enough to slightly hold the cap up off the distributor base? What method did you use to time it? Have vac advance?
 
Did I miss it? I don't see a response to the below.

TrailBeast said:
This description is exactly how a backwards wired distributor pickup coil acts when the wires get switched.

In that case the spark is not aligned with the contacts on the distributor cap, and reving it makes it worse.
It causes backfires and plugs loading up.
Click to expand...

It's a known issue. Has that been addressed?
 
canyncarvr said:
Did I miss it? I don't see a response to the below.



It's a known issue. Has that been addressed?
Click to expand...

I had a friend doing a first start on a brand new built 440.
It wouldn’t rev past about 1,200 and missed real bad.
It also ran super rich with black smoke pouring out the exhaust.
They wanted to try another known good carb, but it made no difference.

When I got there I noticed the distributor wires had been spliced and I asked if I could swap the polarity on them and that did it.
It ran great after that, but unfortunately it was already eating a lifter from the screwing around.
 
If you suspect the carb, try & borrow a working carb & try.....
With some problems, swap/substitution is the only way to diagnose the problem...
 
TrailBeast said:
I had a friend doing a first start on a brand new built 440.
It wouldn’t rev past about 1,200 and missed real bad.
It also ran super rich with black smoke pouring out the exhaust.
They wanted to try another known good carb, but it made no difference.

When I got there I noticed the distributor wires had been spliced and I asked if I could swap the polarity on them and that did it.
It ran great after that, but unfortunately it was already eating a lifter from the screwing around.
Click to expand...
Yup. I've read of and heard stories about troubles with the phasing of pick-up coil wires. That issue does seem to fit as a solution to this problem very well.

But there is all sorts of scatter in other directions for some reason...

With some problems, listening to folks that have seen and heard about the exact problem that is at hand is a good place to start. ;)

Until it's proved otherwise, my money is on your suggestion.
 
There is a 50/50 chance of getting the p/up phasing wrong. You would soon know it because the engine will run like crap, backfiring etc.
 
The Pertronix has the pick up coil inside the ignition module. No way to reverse wire it unless you cut the module apart. The only wires to the Pertronix are 12v power and coil negative. I don't think you would get any spark at all if you get those reversed. You could have trouble but still sort of run if you have the coil positive and negative backwards.

This sounds like a case of "90% of carburetor problems are the ignition." I would make sure there isn't anything loose and the gap between the Pertronix and the ring of magnets is not too wide. Also check to be sure the rotor makes good contact with the cap, no loose screws, and no issues with wire splices.
 
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