MOPAROFFICIAL
If it has tits, it's a liability.
Lead will smear , fishing weights hence the 'fishy af' in my last post.
Pieces of steel in cylinder??
- Thread starter Righty Tighty
- Start date
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Cuda416
Well-Known Member
Yeah but lead shot isn't really lead anymore, just like fishing weights. That said fishing weights are way more likely to be on hand for many people than lead shot... Your idea makes more sense.
Funny you mention the starter, I'm on my 2nd reman mini starter. I was just thinking the first one was junk, now this second one was sounding the same before the engine died. Just whining and wouldn't turn the engine over.
Absolutely! I'm really enjoying taking it apart and learning...it's not rocket science, but I sure do have a lot to learn. Wrenchin' on it is ALMOST as much fun as driving it....
Now here is a guy that has it all figured out, Righty Tighty.
As much fun to wrench on as they are to drive !!!
As much fun to wrench on as they are to drive !!!
"Whatever it is" is very obviously way softer than the crank.......and oh happy day! The crank looks salvageable, IMO. As @krazykuda Karl said though, you should remove every stinkin pipe plug and freeze plug, core plug, whatever from EVERYWHERE. Even and especially the one under the distributor and the one under the rear main cap. ALL OF THEM! Failure to do so will probably almost guarantee you leave something behind.
Well, the good news is the machine shop didn’t seem very concerned about the crank, or the cylinder walls. Sounds like a honing will do for the cylinders, and he’s going to measure the journals and get back to me. His guess was that the material on the crank is Babbit. I didn’t get to pulling the cam before dropping it off, the shop is gonna do that and check the bearings there.
It’s funny, first thing he said was “Wow! Never seen THAT before!!”
It’s funny, first thing he said was “Wow! Never seen THAT before!!”
Cuda416
Well-Known Member
I know some hot tank systems will eat away almost anything not cast iron. I only know that because the spark plug tubes on the slant six were left in place and almost disappeared.... A couple of them actually did I was told.
nm9stheham
Well-Known Member
At first that seemed plausible, but there is just too much of it. And I too have never seen a bad bearing without crank damage. The color of the material is exactly that of solder or fresh cut lead, and the shape of the globules in the crankcase is exactly how solder blobs up; either would be soft enough to not score the crank. Maybe some clown put solder or lead behind a bearing shell LOL
I'd be checking all the bores of everything for size.
AJ/FormS
68 Formua-S fastback clone 367/A833/GVod/3.55s
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It takes over 350*F to melt solder.
Babbit takes ~460*F
aluminum takes over 1200*F
Whatever that junk is, in order for it to form spheroids,lol; I think it would have had to have been molten and then fall long enough to solidify, or fall into a liquid while still molten. I just can't imagine how that could have occurred inside the engine.
Babbit takes ~460*F
aluminum takes over 1200*F
Whatever that junk is, in order for it to form spheroids,lol; I think it would have had to have been molten and then fall long enough to solidify, or fall into a liquid while still molten. I just can't imagine how that could have occurred inside the engine.
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All of that makes logical sense, but IF it was sabatoge, how?? I don’t even care about the “why” at this point.
Wyrmrider
Well-Known Member
send pics of cut open oil filter
just for giggles send the oil for analysis
lucky you did not loose the block, the crank, the heads
I would not reuse the cam without a touch up
I guess you could reface the lifters and take them apart and check
timing chain is toast, no way to really clean and may have rotated with crud
time for a new set of long brushes
I' redrill the block mains to 9/32 or a little under then I ream
(I've found broken factory drill bits in high mileage 440's- oil going around the flutes)
(I've found passages that were not drilled all the way through- factory resharpened the bits once too many times making too short)
just for giggles send the oil for analysis
lucky you did not loose the block, the crank, the heads
I would not reuse the cam without a touch up
I guess you could reface the lifters and take them apart and check
timing chain is toast, no way to really clean and may have rotated with crud
time for a new set of long brushes
I' redrill the block mains to 9/32 or a little under then I ream
(I've found broken factory drill bits in high mileage 440's- oil going around the flutes)
(I've found passages that were not drilled all the way through- factory resharpened the bits once too many times making too short)
Cuda416
Well-Known Member
Metals don't need to melt completely to cause problems and reform. Google tells me zinc becomes more malleable at 100C. There are loads of metals, including babbit, tin, selenium etc that "melt" below 450 deg. To get soft would take much less.
you could take any you collected and see at what point it melts at. Wear a respirator...
you could take any you collected and see at what point it melts at. Wear a respirator...
my68barracuda
Well-Known Member
The material in the cylinders is magnetic because it is from the crushed steel valve seat.
The spherical material found in the crankcase is non magnetic because it is aluminum / tin from the main bearings that melted then was washed out or spun out of the bearing journals.
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Cuda416
Well-Known Member
Ya know, a long time ago when i was getting a filling the dentist told me the way they make that filling material (A metal) was to mix the stuff up and it hardens as they work it...
About Dental Amalgam Fillings
Any dentists near your house that don't like your car? Pouring mercury into your engine might cause the issue when the mercury binds to tin or some other metal and hardens. it would form globules..
About Dental Amalgam Fillings
Any dentists near your house that don't like your car? Pouring mercury into your engine might cause the issue when the mercury binds to tin or some other metal and hardens. it would form globules..
Cuda416
Well-Known Member
More low metal temp metals....
Low Temperature Metals for Casting in 3D Printed Plastic Molds
They are alloys of bismuth, lead, tin, indium, cadmium, thallium, gallium and antimony in different proportions. Some commonly available fusible alloys are Rose’s Metal, Wood’s Metal and Field’s Metal. All of these have melt points less than 100C, and Field’s Metal melts at only 62C. All of these would be perfectly suitable for casting in 3D printed plastic.
Low Temperature Metals for Casting in 3D Printed Plastic Molds
They are alloys of bismuth, lead, tin, indium, cadmium, thallium, gallium and antimony in different proportions. Some commonly available fusible alloys are Rose’s Metal, Wood’s Metal and Field’s Metal. All of these have melt points less than 100C, and Field’s Metal melts at only 62C. All of these would be perfectly suitable for casting in 3D printed plastic.
Yep that will do 'er in.
It's called Malleability, reshaping bearing inserts at room temperature by hammering on them.
That crank had no where else to go being being the pistons were bottomed out against the valve seat pieces at TDC, so the soft crank bearing inserts took the brunt of the rotating force. Enough so the piston could go past TDC and come around again for another wack, with crank taking the same beating on every rotation. Bearings not only had the pressure on them, but the rotational force under pressure too. On and on until the owner finally turned off the key.
Dynamite, Bing, Bang, Ka-Boom
Down and Out . . .
nm9stheham
Well-Known Member
Hey OP, look at the backs of the bearing shells and looks for some makrings like .020 or 20 or similar. It may be the pix, but that is sure a thick looking bearing shell.
nm9stheham
Well-Known Member
Ya know.... that makes sense if the crank kept running and running and running. I realize that the only bearing failures I've seen are oil starvation, and the only piston impacts were violent enough to stop the engine dead in its tracks or bend the rod. If the seat shattrered at the first blow, then those smaller impacts might indeed just heat the lower main bearing and the #3 rod bearing and slowly melt the materials out. Makin' more sense....
MOPAROFFICIAL
If it has tits, it's a liability.
When you see and read weird **** like this sometimes I don't know if my ideas are worth a squat, to be honest.
Cuda416
Well-Known Member
Sorry... what?
If you're gonna lob one across the bow, at least be direct. how was the admission of fishing weights, which aren't "just lead" anymore, being more likely than "lead shot" from a shotgun shell, which also aren't really "just lead" anymore, "weird ****"?
MOPAROFFICIAL
If it has tits, it's a liability.
I was saying my idea could be wrong.
"See and reading " as in...the original Post in this thread and all the pictures of all the ******* garbage going through his engine.lol How in the **** this happens is beyond me. I guess I do things correctly too often to encounter such a thing.
So while I'm over here thinking of somebody put it together dirty left steel shot in it even...its really a case put together dirty probably wrong size bearings and then ran it out of oil of three or four times overheated it to drop a seat and the rest is in the pictures.
OH ...BUT IT RAN FINE BEFORE THIS.
Sure it did.
Cuda416
Well-Known Member
Ah, I mistook it for a roundhouse to the back of the head. My mistake..
Lots of ideas, so far it looks as if @George Jets is probably right. At those times when the crank bangs the bearings, there will be metal on metal and a LOT of heat which would easily melt that tin in the bearings.
MOPAROFFICIAL
If it has tits, it's a liability.
Even if you put fishing weights into it...
The pick up screen would have to be missing, have a hole, to suck up weights.
How it didnt lock up is something...
Im saying this...
The seat falling out and the bearings being smeared are 2 separate issues. Imo.
The seat needs a way to get into the oil...it cant from the chamber side without a hole..it typically goes out the pipe...
George isn't wrong about the seat coming out. The rest is separated from that though.
That's my final word. Valued or not..it doesn't matter.
The pick up screen would have to be missing, have a hole, to suck up weights.
How it didnt lock up is something...
Im saying this...
The seat falling out and the bearings being smeared are 2 separate issues. Imo.
The seat needs a way to get into the oil...it cant from the chamber side without a hole..it typically goes out the pipe...
George isn't wrong about the seat coming out. The rest is separated from that though.
That's my final word. Valued or not..it doesn't matter.
Could it possibly be some thing like radiator allumiseal dumped in the crank case? For some evil reason? I once knew a fellow that poured K&W block seal in his crank case because well it was block seal! He didn't read the instructions. It locked that motor up tighter than a nuns cunt.
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