ProComp/Speedmaster aluminum heads

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Mopar Sam said:
Cool.
There are so many threads on heads I've been reading that my head is spinning.
I was just confused.
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I get to reading and talking on so many different threads I don't know which one I'm answering half the time LOL trust me I'm always giving the right answer it just may not be the correct thread...lol...:poke:..
 
j par said:
Now this is a derailler two people talking about different heads...
Please post a link in this post...
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Mopar Sam's 360 magnum build thread.... It's awesome! Sam does great work, just not much of it..... :D :D :D
 
318willrun said:
Mopar Sam's 360 magnum build thread.... It's awesome! Sam does great work, just not much of it..... :D :D :D
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You are right about the "not much of it"! Maybe should change my name to Slopar Sam!

Sorry for continuing the derailment jpar.
 
Mopar Sam said:
You are right about the "not much of it"! Maybe should change my name to Slopar Sam!

Sorry for continuing the derailment jpar.
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Of all the things in your life you may feel the need to apologize for.... derailing a J par thread should never be on that list!! :D :D
 
Procomp....or Speedmaster...LOL>..i ordered a set of chromemoly retainers thru summit racing back in July....2 sets....1 set was shipped and received with in days of the order...One set on back order......last this week I get a fed ex package with 2 set of retainers...and today I get another package from speedmaster with 2 more set of retainers....LOL>..

Surprised they did not ship someone else aluminum heads to me.....
 
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70aarcuda said:
Procomp....or Speedmaster...LOL>..i ordered a set of chromemoly retainers thru summit racing back in July....2 sets....1 set was shipped and received with in days of the order...One set on back order......last this week I get a fed ex package with 2 set of retainers...and today I get another package from speedmaster with 2 more set of retainers....LOL>..

Surprised they did not ship someone else aluminum heads to me.....
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But that's cheap Chinese junk and it's going to go slow and break and blow up in your motor...lol..
Right now I'm torn between buying one of those Spring Height checkers for a one-time use or making my own redneck adjustable sleeve and measuring it when it's done? What's your thoughts...
I'm going to get the springs that are on the heads checked, but from what prh said I'm not hopeful that I'll be using them...
 
j par said:
But that's cheap Chinese junk and it's going to go slow and break and blow up in your motor...lol..
Right now I'm torn between buying one of those Spring Height checkers for a one-time use or making my own redneck adjustable sleeve and measuring it when it's done? What's your thoughts...
I'm going to get the springs that are on the heads checked, but from what prh said I'm not hopeful that I'll be using them...
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Buy the mic, if you don't think you'll use it again sell it. Use the right tool for the job.
 
Long ago I made a fixed height aluminum checking sleeve, which made it possible to measure installed height with a dial caliper. The bottom of the sleeve fit in the spring seat, top was same id/od as the outer spring. Overall height was 1.00". A hardware store checking spring fit inside. When it was all assembled on the head, the checking spring acting against the inner step of the sleeve held the checking sleeve against the spring seat. The 1" overall height made it quick/easy to assemble, plenty of room compress with your hand to install/remove the keepers. From there you could determine valve spring installed height using simple dial calipers, just add 1.00" to the measurement to account for the height of the checking sleeve. Way quicker than threading the micrometer style checking tool.

Grant
 
weedburner said:
Long ago I made a fixed height aluminum checking sleeve, which made it possible to measure installed height with a dial caliper. The bottom of the sleeve fit in the spring seat, top was same id/od as the outer spring. Overall height was 1.00". A hardware store checking spring fit inside. When it was all assembled on the head, the checking spring acting against the inner step of the sleeve held the checking sleeve against the spring seat. The 1" overall height made it quick/easy to assemble, plenty of room compress with your hand to install/remove the keepers. From there you could determine valve spring installed height using simple dial calipers, just add 1.00" to the measurement to account for the height of the checking sleeve. Way quicker than threading the micrometer style checking tool.

Grant
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Is there anything that you can't invent from hardware store! LOL I do go into ace and all I can think is the possibilities...
My vgate linkage and mounts are all hardware store...
 
PRH said:
Not a bad plan.
Buy the height mic first...... check installed heights...... buy correct springs to suit.
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So I had this kind member offer some Springs he has. Ideally we both want them to go to somebody that can you use them. With that Spirit mind I'd like to see if a couple of things I recall from this thread. One thing I thought I heard you say that you had better results or readings from stock Edelbrock Springs?
Anyways the springs that are being offered are from Magnum roller Edelbrock heads. I guess the question would be if you've had any experience with these Springs their spring rate and install Heights?...
I know it's a long shot roller Magnum Eddie Springs for Speedmaster solid lifter springs..
I should say I've tried looking up those heads but they don't give any install Heights on the springs or open pressure or anything like that at least on the summit site...
 
Let’s see if I’ve got this right.......

We have two sets of springs, from two different head manufacturers, but we don’t have any observed data(loads or heights) for either set of springs....... and you’re wondering if one set will be better than the other....... for an application that you haven’t defined what the spring requirements are.

Uuuuhhhh....... nope.
Even with that wealth of information posted on those springs, I don’t have an answer for you.

I’m going to refer back to what I was getting at earlier.
It’s not that hard.

Talk to the cam grinder and get their feedback on the spring load requirements for the cam.

Measure the installed height on the heads.
Then.......
A- have the springs that come on the heads tested at that height and see if the specs match up with what you need, or
B- buy springs that meet the criteria the cam grinder suggested, that will work at the installed height of the heads.
 
PRH said:
Let’s see if I’ve got this right.......

We have two sets of springs, from two different head manufacturers, but we don’t have any observed data(loads or heights) for either set of springs....... and you’re wondering if one set will be better than the other....... for an application that you haven’t defined what the spring requirements are.

Uuuuhhhh....... nope.
Even with that wealth of information posted on those springs, I don’t have an answer for you.

I’m going to refer back to what I was getting at earlier.
It’s not that hard.

Talk to the cam grinder and get their feedback on the spring load requirements for the cam.

Measure the installed height on the heads.
Then.......
A- have the springs that come on the heads tested at that height and see if the specs match up with what you need, or
B- buy springs that meet the criteria the cam grinder suggested, that will work at the installed height of the heads.
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And measure the spring height with a good, dedicated height mic. I can tell you most installed heights are longer than most measure especially if they are using home made stuff. You have to read the mic while it's loaded.
 
PRH said:
Let’s see if I’ve got this right.......

We have two sets of springs, from two different head manufacturers, but we don’t have any observed data(loads or heights) for either set of springs....... and you’re wondering if one set will be better than the other....... for an application that you haven’t defined what the spring requirements are.

Uuuuhhhh....... nope.
Even with that wealth of information posted on those springs, I don’t have an answer for you.

I’m going to refer back to what I was getting at earlier.
It’s not that hard.

Talk to the cam grinder and get their feedback on the spring load requirements for the cam.

Measure the installed height on the heads.
Then.......
A- have the springs that come on the heads tested at that height and see if the specs match up with what you need, or
B- buy springs that meet the criteria the cam grinder suggested, that will work at the installed height of the heads.
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LOL... I'm taking your advice and I heard you the first time..
I'm not sure if you caught it where I said "I know this is a long shot?" I was just trying to add up a couple things that I thought I heard you say and that I was under the impression of and just seeing if my long-shot would add up to anything..
You're saying the set of speedmasters that you checked were "waaay low" for the application. 250 - 275 range? I plan to heed your warning and make it something to be prepared for. As I don't have even money for gaskets let alone the bolts right now it's just time to keep doing homework. Here I have a kind member offering some Springs and I'm just double-checking that there not usable.
I thought someone said Edelbrock had better springs, I thought someone said these speedmasters are Edelbrock copies..
Remember the Two Worlds that we come from. Mine is from the pure standpoint of a hobby, it's fun and it is of absolutely no importance to me except for my enjoyment. Everything I learned about it, everything I talk about on the form about it is all for my enjoyment and hobby. I understand that you likely make a living from this kind of stuff and you take it probably a bit more serious than I do and I understand that. I'm totally not trying to waste your time... If it wasn't for yours and 70AARcudas input I probably wouldn't have purchased these...
again since I have all the time in the world before these go on and someone was making that generous offer I just wanted to definitely cross that off my list but again it will be only confirmed after I test my spring height. As far as speaking with my cam guy (Ken at Oregon cam grinding) he had a conversation likely with (Ted King-Portland engine rebuilders) back in 2014 when my cam was originally put in on its first grind. Was told my current Springs would be fine for my latest grind. You may not have read because the thread went sideways for quite some time but I do have Crower 68405 Springs now which seemed to be around 382lbs.
 
The reason I bought them bare this go around is that I tested their valve springs on a spring tester I have in the garage....not a big dollar one...but I was getting about 270 psi at .600 lift....i dont remember the seat pressure. I prefer to use the PAC 1903 spring....140ish at 1.80...and 350 ish over the nose...they are about 100 bucks for a set.
 
70aarcuda said:
The reason I bought them bare this go around is that I tested their valve springs on a spring tester I have in the garage....not a big dollar one...but I was getting about 270 psi at .600 lift....i dont remember the seat pressure. I prefer to use the PAC 1903 spring....140ish at 1.80...and 350 ish over the nose...they are about 100 bucks for a set.
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Yes totally I've looked up those 1903 and also looked at the ones that PHR recommended and they both "advertise" right at about 391. I found out the springs that I have advertised about 382 over the nose. Again I think both of your recommendations are right on par from what my amateur unknowing research can pull up.. again going on the weight of both of your recommendations I am preparing for this. Also recommended to check what I have and I will do that before I pull the trigger on anything. again if you read their I was just trying to see if some Stars lined up. Like as in someone checked these and maybe someone's check the ones that came off of a roller Magnum Edelbrock head and said oh yeah they were installed at this height and they made x spring pressure out of the box? lots of people have done lots of things out here and quite possibly I was hoping that since PHR goes across probably 20 different kinds of heads all the time, he may have tested that spring as well and found they work well at the same common install Heights..
All a total crapshoot question...
 
your Crower 68405 springs are designed for 1.70 installed height...the SM heads want 1.80 installed height....unless you shim the crower springs .100 they are not going to work....
 
70aarcuda said:
your Crower 68405 springs are designed for 1.70 installed height...the SM heads want 1.80 installed height....unless you shim the crower springs .100 they are not going to work....
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Correct this was just a reference to the spring pressure that I now know I have on the cam that I have. this was the recommended spring and pressure for the heads that I have and the cam that I have now. So to me it would stand to reason to get a spring in the correct installed hide with the same or at least close spring pressure. I believe the ones you suggested we'll be the ones I go to once I confirm the ones that came with the heads are not adequate...
My original new question was just a long shot. As in does anybody know the installed height and spring rates and pressures of a Edelbrock Magnum roller Head? Again a long shot, a very long shot..
Don't want the guy to send them to me and then I just have them out here waiting for somebody to send them too..
 
Maybe,just maybe if do a little sweet talking and some whine and dine yr will check them -wait no scratch that. Get a mic and check them,and beware alot of inexpensive valve spring mics are a touch off (.010 or so) so check the mic with a mic got it. And then buy some springs,you are in the heads cheap enough and used springs are used springs,and then see a doctor about your adhd lol.
 
lead69 said:
Maybe,just maybe if do a little sweet talking and some whine and dine yr will check them -wait no scratch that. Get a mic and check them,and beware alot of inexpensive valve spring mics are a touch off (.010 or so) so check the mic with a mic got it. And then buy some springs,you are in the heads cheap enough and used springs are used springs,and then see a doctor about your adhd lol.
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If he wants me to look at his heads when I come over I will. Just costs him a 24 pack of Safeway ginger ale.

And he has to wait until December. I ain't coming over before then unless it's an emergency.
 
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