Rear end location wrong? IM STUMPED!!!

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jrlhayton

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I have a 70 dodge dart swing that I'm in the process of converting to a BIG block. I've installed (Hotchkis- a-body Geometry Corrected leaf springs) with the 1" lowering into the car. Has disk brakes in rear from SSBC-USA. Didn't change any thing other then the leaf springs. Got everything bolted up and now the issue. My Left rear tire is about 1/16" from fender lip and right rear tire is about 3/4" from fender lip. Tire size is p245/60r14. I Loosened up everything took the weight off the leaf spring and moved the spring shackle hanger on driver side inward a bit and passenger side outward a bit and tightened everything back up and only gained about a 1/16" on both sides.
Does anyone on here have any ideas to what might be the issue?
Also, the springs I took out were factory and didn't have any tire clearance issues!

Thanks in advance
 
That's factory tolerance.
But, here's a hint.
>If you have an 8.75 rear end, then the axle end-play adjuster is supposed to be, on the passenger side. Have a look. Maybe yours is on the driver's side. The adjuster can be as much 3/8ths off-set, which is doubled when moved from side to side.I moved mine to the other side, which got it nearly centered.
>Also, pop the wheels off and measure the exct backspace of each, maybe you can get some change there. On my 10" Rally wheels, I had to cut the spider out of one of them, and move it over a hair, to get the sidewall off the fender lip.
>And finally, if the quarters on your car, are not original, some guys will just install the new patch-panel, OVER the old one, and there it is, lol.

Altho your story is somewhat unique.
 
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Never measure for a body part. They are seldom square with the chassis measurements.
You want to square the housing with the chassis measuring points.
Info should be in the front section of your Factory Service Manual.
 
Did you make your final tightening with the weight on the tires?
 
That's factory tolerance.
But, here's a hint.
>If you have an 8.75 rear end, then the axle end-play adjuster is supposed to be, on the passenger side. Have a look. Maybe yours is on the driver's side. The adjuster can be as much 3/8ths off-set, which is doubled when moved from side to side.I moved mine to the other side, which got it nearly centered.
>Also, pop the wheels off and measure the exct backspace of each, maybe you can get some change there. On my 10" Rally wheels, I had to cut the spider out of one of them, and move it over a hair, to get the sidewall off the fender lip.
>And finally, if the quarters on your car, are not original, some guys will just install the new patch-panel, OVER the old one, and there it is, lol.

Altho your story is somewhat unique.
I forgot to mention it does have a 8.75 rear end and they do have the (green bearings) I believe that's what they call them if that matters. Ok, as for the axel end play adjusters. Where and what are said adjusters. I'm fairly new at this kind of stuff! I recently just inherited this car from my father when he passed! Don't get me wrong, I know a thing or two about wrenching, just don't know that much about MOPAR cars.

Thanks
 
I forgot to mention it does have a 8.75 rear end and they do have the (green bearings) I believe that's what they call them if that matters
Green bearings will not use the adjusters.


Ok, as for the axel end play adjusters. Where and what are said adjusters.
The OEM axel bearings are tapered roller bearings, to get the preload set you adjust the adjuster on the pass side in or out. The axel pushes on the center button that pushes on the other axle.
Screenshot_20241230-142521.png

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I'm fairly new at this kind of stuff! I recently just inherited this car from my father when he passed
I'm sorry for your loss. I acquired my Dart the same way.

Mymopar.com has factory service manuals free download
 
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I have a 70 dodge dart swing that I'm in the process of converting to a BIG block. I've installed (Hotchkis- a-body Geometry Corrected leaf springs) with the 1" lowering into the car. Has disk brakes in rear from SSBC-USA. Didn't change any thing other then the leaf springs. Got everything bolted up and now the issue. My Left rear tire is about 1/16" from fender lip and right rear tire is about 3/4" from fender lip. Tire size is p245/60r14. I Loosened up everything took the weight off the leaf spring and moved the spring shackle hanger on driver side inward a bit and passenger side outward a bit and tightened everything back up and only gained about a 1/16" on both sides.
Does anyone on here have any ideas to what might be the issue?
Also, the springs I took out were factory and didn't have any tire clearance issues!

Thanks in advance

Did you measure anything before you changed the springs out? Just because the tires weren't hitting anything before doesn't mean that the rear axle was centered.

If it was centered before, then your shift to one side has to be coming from the new parts you installed somewhere. When you loosened everything up to shift the shackles, did that include loosening the u-bolts? The button on the springs may be smaller than the holes in the spring perches, so it could be that the axle housing is shifted on the springs.


Ok but what keeps the axles from sliding right out of the tubes.
Just a plain plate, same as the one on the opposite side of the adjuster when you have the tapered bearings. There's no end play adjustment on the green bearing set up.
 
my 70 Dart was the same way with a factory installed 8-3/4. the 1/4 lips were hacksawed by a previous owner to clear the F60-14's.
AJ, there is a thick ring that is press onto the axle after the bearing is installed. some people tac weld it in place, mine never slipped out/off.
 
That's factory tolerance.
But, here's a hint.
>If you have an 8.75 rear end, then the axle end-play adjuster is supposed to be, on the passenger side. Have a look. Maybe yours is on the driver's side. The adjuster can be as much 3/8ths off-set, which is doubled when moved from side to side.I moved mine to the other side, which got it nearly centered.
>Also, pop the wheels off and measure the exct backspace of each, maybe you can get some change there. On my 10" Rally wheels, I had to cut the spider out of one of them, and move it over a hair, to get the sidewall off the fender lip.
>And finally, if the quarters on your car, are not original, some guys will just install the new patch-panel, OVER the old one, and there it is, lol.

Altho your story is somewhat unique.
This won't help with the green bearings, but I had a similar problem and there is nothing to say you can't put adjusters on both sides. That allows you to move both axles as a set by taking slack on the side where you have more clearance and then adjusting the other side in to give you more clearance. You can literally center the axles between the lips. You just have to make the end play correct at the end of the process.
 
Your problem is the adjustment Equalizer in the carrier must be removed if you are using green bearings without adjusters or after putting one side in the other axle won't go in all the way.

Put one axle in without the nuts. Then install the other one you'll see It will push each other out.

The easy fix is to cut the axles so they don't bottom each other out. If you already tightened them you probably already damaged the retaining plates on the axles.

Measure the distance that the axles push each other. Split the difference and cut that much off each axle. Cut it 1/16 extra for clearance

On a Clutch style unit there are equalizer pins that can be removed they are connected with a roll pin. Cone style and open carriers the rear has to come apart.

If it were me I would ditch the green bearings and install the tapered bearings. Green bearings do not take side load. They are good for drag cars not for street. Your problems will be over.
 
Your problem is the adjustment Equalizer in the carrier must be removed if you are using green bearings without adjusters or after putting one side in the other axle won't go in all the way.

Put one axle in without the nuts. Then install the other one you'll see It will push each other out.

The easy fix is to cut the axles so they don't bottom each other out. If you already tightened them you probably already damaged the retaining plates on the axles.

Measure the distance that the axles push each other. Split the difference and cut that much off each axle. Cut it 1/16 extra for clearance

On a Clutch style unit there are equalizer pins that can be removed they are connected with a roll pin. Cone style and open carriers the rear has to come apart.

Did you read the part in the OP's original post where he said the ONLY thing he changed was the leaf springs?

That would mean that the green bearings and disk brakes aren't new. Which would mean the green bearings aren't the issue with the axle housing not being centered. You sure as heck wouldn't be able to get the disks lined up in the calipers if the axles weren't fully installed.

If it were me I would ditch the green bearings and install the tapered bearings. Green bearings do not take side load. They are good for drag cars not for street. Your problems will be over.

There are literally millions and millions of Ford 9's on the street with bearings of the exact same style as the green bearings for the 8 3/4. They work fine on the street, and have for many decades.

I personally like having the tapered bearings, but saying the green bearings aren't good for street use is just silly.
 
Did you read the part in the OP's original post where he said the ONLY thing he changed was the leaf springs?

That would mean that the green bearings and disk brakes aren't new. Which would mean the green bearings aren't the issue with the axle housing not being centered. You sure as heck wouldn't be able to get the disks lined up in the calipers if the axles weren't fully installed.



There are literally millions and millions of Ford 9's on the street with bearings of the exact same style as the green bearings for the 8 3/4. They work fine on the street, and have for many decades.

I personally like having the tapered bearings, but saying the green bearings aren't good for street use is just silly.
You should do research before you give advice. Comparing a mopar to a ford when ford bearings were never better then the mopar tapered style. Watch the video and sink in your chair. LOL. But you may know better, Can't wait for the response. Or your Quote on it like your thousands

 
You should do research before you give advice. Comparing a mopar to a ford when ford bearings were never better then the mopar tapered style. Watch the video and sink in your chair. LOL. But you may know better, Can't wait for the response. Or your Quote on it like your thousands


I’m not sure what your point is. Currie is just confirming that a tapered bearing is more robust than the roller bearing.
 
I’m not sure what your point is. Currie is just confirming that a tapered bearing is more robust than the roller bearing.
I was answering his quote of my post. That is my point. Tapered are far better then ball bearing for longevity.

Having a shop we are always removing green bearings then pressing and replacing them with the factory style tapered with adjusters back on the axles for customers that had bearing failure . Then they look for a carrier that wasn't modified for their green bearing install so their tapered axles can be adjusted.

Not seeing the OP's car there could be many issues. Maybe his dad had the rear racked over because the wheel house is closer due to axle installation when they were installed. Or didn't the OP have the rear hanging center on the leafs when it was tightened.

My thoughts were the axles. The subject came up and I mentioned what I have seen when owners of cars that decide to install green bearings with no knowledge of the procedure to install them. Its not just tighten them up and your good to go .

You must remove the Preload/equalizer block in the carrier. I have seen several with the retaining plates pulled in at the nuts like a wafer.
 
I have a 70 dodge dart swing that I'm in the process of converting to a BIG block. I've installed (Hotchkis- a-body Geometry Corrected leaf springs) with the 1" lowering into the car. Has disk brakes in rear from SSBC-USA. Didn't change any thing other then the leaf springs. Got everything bolted up and now the issue. My Left rear tire is about 1/16" from fender lip and right rear tire is about 3/4" from fender lip. Tire size is p245/60r14. I Loosened up everything took the weight off the leaf spring and moved the spring shackle hanger on driver side inward a bit and passenger side outward a bit and tightened everything back up and only gained about a 1/16" on both sides.
Does anyone on here have any ideas to what might be the issue?
Also, the springs I took out were factory and didn't have any tire clearance issues!

Thanks in advance

first thing I would do is , with the tires off , measure between the frame and inner fenders to see if their even close to the same . Carry on...
 
I was answering his quote of my post. That is my point. Tapered are far better then ball bearing for longevity.

Having a shop we are always removing green bearings then pressing and replacing them with the factory style tapered with adjusters back on the axles for customers that had bearing failure . Then they look for a carrier that wasn't modified for their green bearing install so their tapered axles can be adjusted.

Not seeing the OP's car there could be many issues. Maybe his dad had the rear racked over because the wheel house is closer due to axle installation when they were installed. Or didn't the OP have the rear hanging center on the leafs when it was tightened.

My thoughts were the axles. The subject came up and I mentioned what I have seen when owners of cars that decide to install green bearings with no knowledge of the procedure to install them. Its not just tighten them up and your good to go .

You must remove the Preload/equalizer block in the carrier. I have seen several with the retaining plates pulled in at the nuts like a wafer.
Thanks for clarifying this for me. When I first read it I thought that you were a proponent of the Green bearings.
 
I was answering his quote of my post. That is my point. Tapered are far better then ball bearing for longevity.

Having a shop we are always removing green bearings then pressing and replacing them with the factory style tapered with adjusters back on the axles for customers that had bearing failure . Then they look for a carrier that wasn't modified for their green bearing install so their tapered axles can be adjusted.

Not seeing the OP's car there could be many issues. Maybe his dad had the rear racked over because the wheel house is closer due to axle installation when they were installed. Or didn't the OP have the rear hanging center on the leafs when it was tightened.

My thoughts were the axles. The subject came up and I mentioned what I have seen when owners of cars that decide to install green bearings with no knowledge of the procedure to install them. Its not just tighten them up and your good to go .

You must remove the Preload/equalizer block in the carrier. I have seen several with the retaining plates pulled in at the nuts like a wafer.
OK, As I stated in my OP, the only thing I changed was the leaf springs. The leaf springs that came out of the car were the original leafs. Everything to the best of my knowledge was centered and there was NO clearance issues! This is what I'm scratching my head over. Talked with the guy that has helped my father for many years about my issue and he too has not a clue what it could be.

I'm starting to think I should have measured everything first. I do have the original leaf springs maybe I'll have to put them back in and start over with measuring everything and go from there. Reason I wanted to change the leafs was I'm not a fan of the rake in the rear of the car and didn't want to drag race the car as I've found out that was my fathers plan before he passed. He didn't do any modifications to the suspension or body, the only thing he changed was the axles (Moser axles) in the rear end and put the green bearings in.

Don't want too cut anything on the rear end or the body. I'll take some pictures this afternoon of said rear and post them on here!

Thanks again all
 
You should do research before you give advice. Comparing a mopar to a ford when ford bearings were never better then the mopar tapered style. Watch the video and sink in your chair. LOL. But you may know better, Can't wait for the response. Or your Quote on it like your thousands



Go back and read what I said, slowly. It may dawn on you that I didn't say that green bearings were better than tapered bearings.

There are millions and millions of the green style bearings that are used on the street everyday, they come in quite a few new cars as well. That's just a fact, and your basic video with zero actual analysis doesn't disprove that. The way that the majority of people drive these cars on the street, they will never have an issue with the green style bearings.

Are tapered bearings better? For some applications, yes. Like I said in my post, I personally prefer the original style tapered bearings, and that's what I have in my Duster. But, I have a set of green bearings in my Challenger that did 70k street miles and are still just fine, even with 275's on all 4 corners and the car set up for handling and driven on winding mountain roads. They were already on the axles when I bought them and I had better things to do than change out brand new bearings.

The idea that green bearings don't work on the street is just BS. Like anything, for some applications there are better choices. I agree with the video, which is why I install tapered bearings on my cars. But that's not at all the same as saying green bearings aren't ok on the street.

I was answering his quote of my post. That is my point. Tapered are far better then ball bearing for longevity.

Having a shop we are always removing green bearings then pressing and replacing them with the factory style tapered with adjusters back on the axles for customers that had bearing failure . Then they look for a carrier that wasn't modified for their green bearing install so their tapered axles can be adjusted.

Not seeing the OP's car there could be many issues. Maybe his dad had the rear racked over because the wheel house is closer due to axle installation when they were installed. Or didn't the OP have the rear hanging center on the leafs when it was tightened.

My thoughts were the axles. The subject came up and I mentioned what I have seen when owners of cars that decide to install green bearings with no knowledge of the procedure to install them. Its not just tighten them up and your good to go .

You must remove the Preload/equalizer block in the carrier. I have seen several with the retaining plates pulled in at the nuts like a wafer.

Yeah, if you install anything incorrectly it can cause failures, that's really basic. But in this case, the axles and bearings were NEVER the issue, so this entire sidetrack on bearings is a waste of time.

OK, As I stated in my OP, the only thing I changed was the leaf springs. The leaf springs that came out of the car were the original leafs. Everything to the best of my knowledge was centered and there was NO clearance issues! This is what I'm scratching my head over. Talked with the guy that has helped my father for many years about my issue and he too has not a clue what it could be.

I'm starting to think I should have measured everything first. I do have the original leaf springs maybe I'll have to put them back in and start over with measuring everything and go from there. Reason I wanted to change the leafs was I'm not a fan of the rake in the rear of the car and didn't want to drag race the car as I've found out that was my fathers plan before he passed. He didn't do any modifications to the suspension or body, the only thing he changed was the axles (Moser axles) in the rear end and put the green bearings in.

Don't want too cut anything on the rear end or the body. I'll take some pictures this afternoon of said rear and post them on here!

Thanks again all

Before you reinstall the factory springs, take a few measurements.

-Measure from the frame rail out to the quarter lip of each quarter, and see if those numbers are the same. They probably won't be exactly the same, but that's not unusual.

-Measure from the spring to the frame rail on both sides. This number should be the same, or pretty close to it.

-Measure from the spring perch on the housing out to the outer housing flange on both sides of the axle housing. This should be the same.

With those measurements you should be able to figure out if the perches are roughly centered on the housing, if the springs are in the same position relative to the frame rails, and if there's any body tolerance variation from side to side.

Since you only changed the springs, you should be finding the difference in your current set up compared to the last set up with the spring to frame rail measurement.
 
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