Restomod or Original OEM style?? - Feedback Appreciated!

[racerjoe]

Been doing lots of research and hoping the smart folks on here have experience that can lead me down the right path. I want to replace my front suspension and steering on my '67 Dart GT convertible. I don't think it has ever been touched before (manual steering and drum brakes still) so I am sure new parts will be welcomed. But, I am unsure if I want to go and replace the old with new OEM style, or completely replace everything with tubular and rack/pinion. I plan on driving it a lot when done both on the highway and cruising. I want a high quality driving experience that would be as good as possible when compared to newer cars. I have read multiple articles and watched tons of YouTube vids, and there seems to be some folks that are on the restomod side and others that say replacing with original style equipment will be good enough. Lots of opinions.

If I am going to do restomod I will do a full QA1 or RMS type of unit - full configured and bolt-in. But that's a lot of cheddar. So any and all feedback is appreciated. Thanks ina dvance!

B

Sounds to me like you don't intend to do any track or autocross. Why spend money where you don't need to? There's an easy recipe to make your car feel completely different. (with all new bushings of course)
Borgenson steering box
1.03" or larger t-Bars
sway bar
Bilstein or better shocks
Disc brakes
And I'll also suggest frame connectors since it is a convertible.
If you reach out to Peter Bergman, I'm sure he will tell you the same.

I don't think you need tubular UCAs, LCA stiffening plates, K-member stiffening, etc. That will be overkill and wasted money for your intended use of the car.

 

[missing linc]

Personally I would skip the power brakes, a properly set up manual disc/drum configuration provides plenty of stopping power for these light a bodies. My brother has a 68 Dart GT with power disc/drum brakes, I had a 70 Dart and two 75 Dart Sports, all with manual disc/drum setup that worked as well or better. You could add rear disc brakes if you want to increase the stopping power without the loss of space under the hood for the booster.
That 68 Dart GT has a 318/727 combination with aluminum heads and tips the scales at 3300 lbs.

Just my .02.

 

[Super-Cuda]

Sounds to me like you don't intend to do any track or autocross. Why spend money where you don't need to? There's an easy recipe to make your car feel completely different. (with all new bushings of course)
Borgenson steering box
1.03" or larger t-Bars
sway bar
Bilstein or better shocks
Disc brakes
And I'll also suggest frame connectors since it is a convertible.
If you reach out to Peter Bergman, I'm sure he will tell you the same.

I don't think you need tubular UCAs, LCA stiffening plates, K-member stiffening, etc. That will be overkill and wasted money for your intended use of the car.

Just my observations having been down both roads..

I would agree with most of this but pay attention to the following :

1. Check the factory K Member for signs of fatigue, the pivot points for the lower control arms and the mounting points for the steering box. If you want to visually check , get someone to sit in the car and turn the steering wheel full left to right and see if the box moves. You will see the box deflect if the k frame is weak there.

2. Check the frame rails where the upper a-arm mounts. They can rust out but be filled full of debris and you wouldn't notice it as the view is pretty obstructed by the adjusting cams

3. Install factory Lower control arms with sway-bar mounts. Much better than aftermarket.

I don't do any autocross or track but I do drive my car hard with the RMS components when I get an opportunity and the car performs beautifully.

I'm with abodyjoe on this.

I wouldn't go back.

 

[DionR]

Sounds to me like you don't intend to do any track or autocross. Why spend money where you don't need to? There's an easy recipe to make your car feel completely different. (with all new bushings of course)
Borgenson steering box
1.03" or larger t-Bars
sway bar
Bilstein or better shocks
Disc brakes
And I'll also suggest frame connectors since it is a convertible.
If you reach out to Peter Bergman, I'm sure he will tell you the same.

I don't think you need tubular UCAs, LCA stiffening plates, K-member stiffening, etc. That will be overkill and wasted money for your intended use of the car.

I agree, except I would add he needs more caster than stock so at least offset UCA bushings. Maybe tubular UCA if only for the additional caster.

 

[Icetech]

Out of all of this i would consider the frame connectors the 1 must have for that.. a convert especially.. get the US Car tool ones.. made a massive difference in my car.. the 62 twists like a twizzler though

 

[racerjoe]

Just my observations having been down both roads..

I would agree with most of this but pay attention to the following :

1. Check the factory K Member for signs of fatigue, the pivot points for the lower control arms and the mounting points for the steering box. If you want to visually check , get someone to sit in the car and turn the steering wheel full left to right and see if the box moves. You will see the box deflect if the k frame is weak there.

2. Check the frame rails where the upper a-arm mounts. They can rust out but be filled full of debris and you wouldn't notice it as the view is pretty obstructed by the adjusting cams

3. Install factory Lower control arms with sway-bar mounts. Much better than aftermarket.

I don't do any autocross or track but I do drive my car hard with the RMS components when I get an opportunity and the car performs beautifully.

I'm with abodyjoe on this.

I wouldn't go back.

I'm not looking to hijack a thread, or get into a pissing match over which is better. I've run both the stock style stuff and now on an HDK setup. I like both and I think there is a place for both. However, I want to clarify, "driving hard" on the street will never duplicate a road course or autocross. Nor is a complete aftermarket system required to have a car that is fun to drive. I do encourage you to find your local autocross group and give it a go. It's the most fun you will ever have in your car. You won't be the fastest, might not be the slowest, you will make mistakes, you will laugh your *** off, and finally, you will want to go again and again.

 

[Super-Cuda]

I'm not looking to hijack a thread, or get into a pissing match over which is better. I've run both the stock style stuff and now on an HDK setup. I like both and I think there is a place for both. However, I want to clarify, "driving hard" on the street will never duplicate a road course or autocross. Nor is a complete aftermarket system required to have a car that is fun to drive. I do encourage you to find your local autocross group and give it a go. It's the most fun you will ever have in your car. You won't be the fastest, might not be the slowest, you will make mistakes, you will laugh your *** off, and finally, you will want to go again and again.

Agreed.

I wish I had the opportunity to do exactly that but, unfortunately, no facilities in my area available to do it.

My main reason for posting was to share experiences with the stock equipment and some of what I think should be checked on a 57 year old car if you want to ensure a safe and reliable ride .

Hopefully that was the kind of info and experience the op was looking for.

Definitely a place for both setups.

 

[SIX225]

Do you still have the '67 K member? The idler arm is a one year piece, so I'd also consider changing the K member for more parts avaiablity. Planning on upgrading my '68 to disk brakes soon with 73+ parts. Mine is also a convertible and really want to add frame connectors as you can really feel the chassis flexing.

 

[BigB6958]

It's interesting because I am also torn between the aesthetic appeal of going with a completely new tubular system like we have discussed, or sticking with new old style parts. I realize looks shouldn't play into this type of decision, but they do since I also want to go to meets and shows (not concours type....just your average Mopar group show, or show & shine). Since I am not auto-crossing or racing or anything, the need for something so expensive is limited to a 70/30 split between wanting an excellent driving experience, and just the overall visual appeal.

Frame connectors were also a given to be added. Easy to add and not too expensive.

 

[BigB6958]

Agreed.

I wish I had the opportunity to do exactly that but, unfortunately, no facilities in my area available to do it.

My main reason for posting was to share experiences with the stock equipment and some of what I think should be checked on a 57 year old car if you want to ensure a safe and reliable ride .

Hopefully that was the kind of info and experience the op was looking for.

Definitely a place for both setups.

Appreciating ALL feedback. The driving experience involving things other than a straight line is very important, hence my desire to get the feedback I need to make the right decisions.

 

[Super-Cuda]

It's interesting because I am also torn between the aesthetic appeal of going with a completely new tubular system like we have discussed, or sticking with new old style parts. I realize looks shouldn't play into this type of decision, but they do since I also want to go to meets and shows (not concours type....just your average Mopar group show, or show & shine). Since I am not auto-crossing or racing or anything, the need for something so expensive is limited to a 70/30 split between wanting an excellent driving experience, and just the overall visual appeal.

Frame connectors were also a given to be added. Easy to add and not too expensive.

Here's the US cartools frame connectors installed on my car.

I also installed the front and rear torque boxes at the same time.

What a difference they make!!

 

[Icetech]

Here's the US cartools frame connectors installed on my car.

I also installed the front and rear torque boxes at the same time.

What a difference they make!!


View attachment 1716321063

I have the torque boxes but haven't installed them... didn't think they would make that much difference, wrong again .. Also.. got sick of welding on my back Will have to get to it

 

[DionR]

1. Check the factory K Member for signs of fatigue, the pivot points for the lower control arms and the mounting points for the steering box. If you want to visually check , get someone to sit in the car and turn the steering wheel full left to right and see if the box moves. You will see the box deflect if the k frame is weak there.

Personally, if you have the option to gusset the k-frame including bracing the LCA mount I think it is a must. Both my cars now have welded and gusseted k-frames.

3. Install factory Lower control arms with sway-bar mounts. Much better than aftermarket.

My '74 has ball joint sway bar connectors using the stock LCA sway bar mounts.

Those were shortened as much as possible. My plan for the '73 is to try and use an L shaped link and modify the LCA that doesn't have a bracket. I want a link that doesn't need to be modified in case it needs to be replaced.

A link like this:

 

[340sFastback]

I have the torque boxes but haven't installed them... didn't think they would make that much difference, wrong again .. Also.. got sick of welding on my back Will have to get to it

I bought full Level 2 kit from US Car Tool but only put sub frame connectors in so far....

 

[Icetech]

I bought full Level 2 kit from US Car Tool but only put sub frame connectors in so far....

yeah, same.. i think the level 2is the connectors and torque boxes... i'll get to em

 

[BigB6958]

I have the torque boxes but haven't installed them... didn't think they would make that much difference, wrong again .. Also.. got sick of welding on my back Will have to get to it

Thankfully mine already has torque boxes installed. One needs replacing though as it is rusted through. Part of my winter will be cleaning up the underside of the car and spraying with sealant and rust inhibitor. That is gonna be a PITA on my back underneath it.

 

[Icetech]

Thankfully mine already has torque boxes installed. One needs replacing though as it is rusted through. Part of my winter will be cleaning up the underside of the car and spraying with sealant and rust inhibitor. That is gonna be a PITA on my back underneath it.

yup.. i had to do every inch of mine.. took quite awhile

 

[Cuprum-74]

Just my observations having been down both roads..

I would agree with most of this but pay attention to the following :

1. Check the factory K Member for signs of fatigue, the pivot points for the lower control arms and the mounting points for the steering box. If you want to visually check , get someone to sit in the car and turn the steering wheel full left to right and see if the box moves. You will see the box deflect if the k frame is weak there.

2. Check the frame rails where the upper a-arm mounts. They can rust out but be filled full of debris and you wouldn't notice it as the view is pretty obstructed by the adjusting cams

3. Install factory Lower control arms with sway-bar mounts. Much better than aftermarket.

I don't do any autocross or track but I do drive my car hard with the RMS components when I get an opportunity and the car performs beautifully.

I'm with abodyjoe on this.

I wouldn't go back.

This 100%

My factory V8 K-member was a lost cause, cracks everywhere, I had the same with a crack on the steering box mount. I tried fixing the LCA pivot mounts only to find more cracks.
Yes I could've got another good factory one from out of state, after searching for a month the best deal I got was one in Nebraska, even after shipping the cost was only $100 cheaper than a new QA1 K-member.
And, yes it's $100 cheaper, HOWEVER it was another 45ish year old factory part at the time and pictures don't show everything that could be wrong (cracks and other issues) with it until you see it in person. So I elected to get a new one, might as well for peace of mind.
Again I'm in a barren wasteland of A-bodies (Utah), they closed the last salvage yard here in the area that dealt with vintage iron. I found out they scrapped like 80% of the cars in the yard and sold the rest to "professional" restoration shops... I believe Dave Kindig was one of them.
Idaho is the closest to me when is comes to decent salvage yards for these cars. Wyoming second, Both 3+ hours drive away.

All that vintage iron gone...

And yes, the last one was a Plymouth Satellite. In fact I ran the VIN on it, it was a 72' Sebring Plus. All gone.

 

[DionR]

This 100%

My factory V8 K-member was a lost cause, cracks everywhere, I had the same with a crack on the steering box mount. I tried fixing the LCA pivot mounts only to find more cracks.
Yes I could've got another good factory one from out of state, after searching for a month the best deal I got was one in Nebraska, even after shipping the cost was only $100 cheaper than a new QA1 K-member.
And, yes it's $100 cheaper, HOWEVER it was another 45ish year old factory part at the time and pictures don't show everything that could be wrong (cracks and other issues) with it until you see it in person. So I elected to get a new one, might as well for peace of mind.

I wish QA1 would do a spool mount k-frame. '72 and older biscuit k-frames only from them.

At the same time, $820 feels like a ridiculous price. Makes me feel pretty good about my $100 k-frame, pretty sure I would still be ahead if I paid to have it gusseted. Ouch.

 

[Cuprum-74]

I wish QA1 would do a spool mount k-frame. '72 and older biscuit k-frames only from them.

At the same time, $820 feels like a ridiculous price. Makes me feel pretty good about my $100 k-frame, pretty sure I would still be ahead if I paid to have it gusseted. Ouch.

Holy crap! It's that much now? I haven't checked on it's price since I bought it in 2016.
Jeez, I remember when it was only around $500 at the time.
"Adjusted for inflation" sheesh.

 

[1WildRT]

I have a Borgeson.. Didn't spend $1100...

Used my original Mopar/Saginaw P/S pump that I rebuilt...

Box with 1 1/8" pitman shaft https://www.classicindustries.com/p...VzyatBh0rThYrEAQYBCABEgLnGvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

Box with 1 1/4" pitman shaft Borgeson Universal 800127 Borgeson Mopar Power Steering Conversion Boxes | Summit Racing

hoses Power Steering Hoses and Lines - 925113 KEYWORD - Free Shipping on Orders Over $109 at Summit Racing

Coupler (With this $20 part and a little ingenuity you can duplicate the conversion coupler sold to allow you to install a borgeson without cutting your column) Borgeson Universal 312500 Borgeson Universal Steering Shaft Couplers | Summit Racing

Looks like about $700 to me... Leaves me $400 to buy fuel... Or Beer...

Though to be honest I paid considerably less...

 

[abodyjoe]

I have a Borgeson.. Didn't spend $1100...

Used my original Mopar/Saginaw P/S pump that I rebuilt...

Box with 1 1/8" pitman shaft https://www.classicindustries.com/p...VzyatBh0rThYrEAQYBCABEgLnGvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

Box with 1 1/4" pitman shaft Borgeson Universal 800127 Borgeson Mopar Power Steering Conversion Boxes | Summit Racing

hoses Power Steering Hoses and Lines - 925113 KEYWORD - Free Shipping on Orders Over $109 at Summit Racing

Coupler (With this $20 part and a little ingenuity you can duplicate the conversion coupler sold to allow you to install a borgeson without cutting your column) Borgeson Universal 312500 Borgeson Universal Steering Shaft Couplers | Summit Racing

Looks like about $700 to me... Leaves me $400 to buy fuel... Or Beer...

Though to be honest I paid considerably less...

i needed the pump and saginaw brackets sice i had a federal pump on the car. going saginaw i needed an aftermarket hose to clear the motor mount too. so i bought the entire kit. BAC Steering Box Upgrade Master Kit - Bergman Auto Craft

 

[BergmanAutoCraft]

Here's the US cartools frame connectors installed on my car.

I also installed the front and rear torque boxes at the same time.

What a difference they make!!


View attachment 1716321063

We did torsional testing at XV Motorsports that most have forgotten by now. We proved the most effective chassis stiffening components were the inner fender braces, underhood brace and radiator support.

 

[bjkadron]

We did torsional testing at XV Motorsports that most have forgotten by now. We proved the most effective chassis stiffening components were the inner fender braces, underhood brace and radiator support.

What is the underhood brace? Just a shock tower brace?

 

[BergmanAutoCraft]

We used to make them at XV. It tied the shock towers to the cowl. I'm hoping to make these at some point, just super busy in the shop.