Restoring a car without documentation

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fzmax

fzmax

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Recently I scored the 68 Formula S, 383 Barracuda in this thread. Unfortunately the fender tag and build sheet are MIA. The fenderwells were cut for headers, then replaced completely at some time before I got the car. There was no build sheet under the back seat or on top of the glove box either. My last hope is in the headliner, hopefully I'll get to pull that down sometime this week.

Anyway, is there anyway to find out what options it came with at this point?
 
If you send the VIN to Galen Govier he might have build information since it is a Formula S 383.
 
If it has bucket seats check inside the driver one for the buildsheet.
The trunk number, (and the radiator support number) will have 10 digits, and contains the shipping date, (and can help match the vin to the body): the year, first digit 8, the plant line, 1 or 2, then an 8 digit shipping order number. The first 3 digits of the shipping order # will be the scheduled shipping date, scheduled month/scheduled day.
So, if yours was built in 1968 on line 2 at Hamtramck on May 31, it should be: 82531xxxxx

We could get close to what options it came with if you have some good pics. I have a databook and some self taught knowledge on the 67/68 cars.
 
Good thing everybody on this forum has great knowledge on these cars - they're right!!! Try the VIN, trim tags, the trunk and search all corners of the internet for this bc nothing is more important then the documentation. Make sure you also have a log and keep track of your research and findings; what websites you referenced, what numbers you called, etc...
Good luck to you man, keep us posted!!
 
Thanks for the tips.

VIN is BH29H8B146215. It is my understanding that 68's with the 383 were all Formula S cars.

It has small bolt, four piston, power disc brakes, 8 3/4 and four speed. He previous owner said he added the disc brakes, I don't think the big block cars had power brakes.

The floor is still red, so I assume that is what color it was.

The seats are out of a later model Duster, so I can't look for the build sheet there.

The car has a 340 in it now. The k-frame is gone, but I did get the big block mounts and Z-bar.

It has the console brackets on the floor, but the previous owner did not get the console when he bought the car.

I will contact Galen Govier and see if he can help me out.

I am happy to save the car and restore it. But if I'm never going to know for sure what it came with, I might as well build it the way I would have ordered one. Any of you guys know what was optional with these cars?

Thanks
 
I think if you do a vin rub and send it into Galen he will be able to decode the specifics.

Carl
 
68, Vin is on the drivers door jam. But it wont tell him anything more then were it was built and what motor was in it.
 
Take tons of pictures of the car exactly like it is right now. I mean all kinds of details before you put a finger to it. Like of the torque boxes and floorboard where the shifter is.

The problem with this car is that in 1968 the only thing linking the body stamping numbers to the dash vin is the buildsheet. In the eyes of most any future buyer, someome just could have rivited that dash vin to that body.

Get a picture of the backside of the dash that shows the rivets. That could help you case showing the vin didn't look like it was replaced. But the whole dash frame could be swapped.

Reality is it cost a lot of money to restore a car. And all of the special 383 A-body parts are missing and will cost you a pretty penny.

The project you bought is worth a little more V-8 2 barrel with factory manual trans is worth PLUS the value of the loose parts.

Restore it with the mindset that you started with a 318 car. If you ever decide to sell it after it was restored AND you got more money for it than a 383 cloned from a 318 treat that as an unexpected windfall.

If you are only restoring because it was a 383 car, I think you should think long and hard. If you were were looking for a 67-69 Barracuda project like this anyway to build then go for it and make it yours, great. Treat the fact that is was a 383 as just an extra bonus and not a big deal.
 
AdamR said:
68, Vin is on the drivers door jam. But it wont tell him anything more then were it was built and what motor was in it.
Click to expand...

68 vin is on the dash.

67 and down is on the drivers door jam.
 
"I don't think the big block cars had power brakes".

I used to own a 69 H-code 383 Dart GTS that was optioned with power disc brakes.
 
Autox, lots of good advice there. This car to me is like a puppy that follows you home, I just didn't want to see it go to the pound. The fact that's it's a 383 car is pretty cool. A-bodies are my favorite rides and 383's are my favorite engines. As far as selling it and making money (or breaking even), well that's for the folks at Barret-Jackson and those shows on TV. I'd just like to bring it back the way it was.

When I was looking at it and talking to the owner I told him that finished the car could be worth $30K. He was happy that I wasn't trying to BS him and get it for nothing, but then I told him it would probably cost $40K to get it there. I bought the car for a lot less than he was asking and what I thought the parts were worth in case I found more wrong with it than the obvious and had to part it out.

As far as getting any documentation, like it was said above, I can't get much beyond what I already know from the VIN. If I'm really lucky there will be a build sheet under the headliner, but I'm not counting on that. If not I'll play automotive archeologist and see what I can figure out. The poor thing has been through a lot of hands so it will be challenging to say the least.
 
send proof of ownership to the walter p chrysler meuseum and ask for a build card.Matthon is a wiz at decoding them.
 
bumnround said:
send proof of ownership to the walter p chrysler meuseum and ask for a build card.Matthon is a wiz at decoding them.
Click to expand...

Thanks, I did not think of that. I sent them to data via email, if I don't hear back I'll call tomorrow.

plumcrazy704406 said:
I would build as a 383 that I would have ordered new. there's only so much paper chasing you can do.
Click to expand...

If I can't find any paperwork that's exactly what I'm going to do. I need to find a brochure for 68 to see what options were even available. I'm guessing once you checked the 383 box, they were probably limited.
 
bumnround said:
send proof of ownership to the walter p chrysler meuseum and ask for a build card.Matthon is a wiz at decoding them.
Click to expand...

Not available for 1968 vehicles.

I believe it is 1967 and down or 1966 and down. Definitely not 1968.
 
autoxcuda said:
Not available for 1968 vehicles.
Click to expand...

Catching a break with this one just doesn't seem likely.

Today I pulled the carpet, no build sheet. Took the upper part of the back seat apart, no build sheet, took down the headliner, lots of petrified mouse turds, but no build sheet, I even took apart the platform behind the back seat and there was no build sheet. But it wasn't a total loss; the floor is very nice.
 
Congrats are in order here. I looked at the ad when it was up and hoped someone like you would come along and save it. 383 or not it is what it is and will be a great car I am sure. Good luck and i look forward to seeing progress along the way.
 
Without documentation, you may never be able to do a "100% correct" resto. So what, you can still make a really nice car. Do what you can to keep it "authentic" and make it as you would have ordered it. Without a build sheet or fender tag, nobody can prove it isn't correct.
 
Just look at the drivers side inner door post if the fifth spot on the vin has an H at least you know it was a 67 bigblock a body, definitely increases the value. The only year I believe power brakes was not available was 67. In 67 you had to get front manual disk with the big block upgrade and power wasn't available.

Carl
 
BH29H8B146215
Well the vin gives you the car line/price class, body type, engine, model year, assembly plant, and the sequence number. The trunk number gives you the scheduled shipping date.
You said it had a console, and buckets- and black interior correct?
Sure Grip was an option as well, and disc were too on 68s- and the data book states that power steering was not available with the 383, but power disc brakes were- who knew?
67s had disc standard with the Formula S but you could not get power disc.
68 Formula S had sway bar, H.D. torsion bars, shocks, and springs- and E70 x 14 red streak tires.
Do you think the dash is original? The optional Rallye Cluster has a 150 speedo, trip odometer, and wood grained dash- do you have any one of those?
Do the bumpers have guards, or holes where they would have been?
Do you have rear seat armrests, chrome trim on the pedals, wood grain on the door panels? The Decor Group had these and a few more.
Is there an antenna?

Some options were in groups, just like today.

I believe there could even be clues as to what was originally in the center pod of the dash, clock, tach, performance indicator, or nothing.

PP1 is Matador Red for 68- any remnants of stripes?

Some items were standard with the 383, and some were not available.

Post some detailed pics, it might not be so difficult to figure out what this car came with.
 
Matthon, thanks! Where can I get a copy of that data book?

Since this car has been messed with so much, it's hard to tell what's factory and what's been changed. Based on my observations (some pics attached) the VIN belongs to this car and the dash frame is original. The the gauges in the cluster may belong to the car, but the bezel does not. It is an A/C bezel and the firewall is non-A/C. The car came with a non-rally cluster, but is in pieces. Neither one is wood grain.

The car has the torque boxes, but someone watched too many episodes of the Dukes of Hazard. It also has an 8 3/4 with 3.23's and a sure grip. The tags are still in place so I doubt that has been changed. It also has the HD springs and torsion bars. You can't tell from the pic, but the bars measure .895.

It does have the trim on the pedals, courtesy lights and the mounts for the console. And judging by the floor I think it's a safe bet the car was red. But since there is no exterior paint, I have no idea if there were any stripes or not.

Talking this through helps a lot, thanks. If you can clue me in on any of the packages or where to get a data book it would be greatly appreciated. While I've done engines, chassis, floors and quarters, I have never restored a car for myself. The whole documentation thing is new to me.

Thanks again to everyone for the help.
 
Here's one more odd thing. The guy I got the car from said it had a Hemi box. While I doubt that and have never seen an 18-spline four speed in A-body length, the pad has no numbers on it at all. Since the engine has been replaced with a small block, the transmission could be out of anything.

Oh, and are these an upgraded door panel?

Thanks again
 
The wood grain door panels and chrome trim on the pedals were part of the upgraded interior.
 
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