Roadrunner or Not

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Diana - some of us here are not experts, but there are a lot of extremely knowledgeable enthusiasts here.

I am asking you to seriously look at the number of guys here telling you the same thing compared to the number of people you apparently talk to who are telling you something different.

Numbers dont lie, you probably have 25 people here urging you to do something about what is at best a bogus car but at worst stolen property, and perhaps 1 or 2 that you talk to elsewhere who say that your car is just the way Chrysler did things in 68.

See the forest for the trees, please be smart and clear this issue up sooner rather than later - if you plan on leaving the car to your heirs leave them a gift, not a mess to deal with.

My 2 cents
 
67GTConvert said:
Ding,Ding,Ding...we have a winner.

Someone got creative with a stamp kit and likely a fabricated/altered title from another state and got semi legit paperwork for a (possibly) stolen or (perhaps) rebuilt or salvaged car.

If the guy doing this had any brains then he should have used the 383 engine code (H) along with an actual B-body plant code (A,G,E) to avoid raising any more red flags then a car with no VIN tag already would.
Trying to pass off a car with no VIN tag as some sort of factory special build with a motor never offered from a plant that never built B-bodies is something a Chevy guy would do.
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RustyRatRod said:
I would be most worried about WHY they did it. I am betting the car was stolen and stripped at one point. That would be the only reason I could think of.

Either that or someone went to a LOT of trouble to try and fake a never built road runner. That would be kinda stupid.
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There are definitely enough flags raised to make it seem illegitimate. As stated above, if the paperwork and vehicle have been modified, it probably wasn't by someone that is well versed on Chrysler VIN coding. If we assume that the title is not original to the car then determining the motive behind the person that coupled the title with the car is crucial.

I'm glad that Diana's Dart chimed back in. I don't believe that anyone here wants them to lose their car. - Nor does anyone want it to be kept from the rightful owner if it turns out to be stolen.

We're all familiar with vehicles that have been cloned. It usually entails changing emblems, decals, hoods, and other options. Most people do it because it's a method of having the drive and feel of the car they've dreamt of but cannot afford. Messing around with titles and VIN numbers is more likely to be by someone less legitimate.
 
Unfortunately it may take Sherlock Holmes to find the origins of the bogus VIN. The difficulty is compounded by the fact that you really can't search for actual VINs or sequences of VINs unless you're with law enforcement. The super easy thing to do would be to drive it & if it was ever to be impounded then c'est la vie. It would be very sad if it was someone's pride & joy that was stolen like the 'Cuda story.
 
The good news in all of this is you probably are in possession of a real 1968 383 4 speed Roadrunner. The problem is the title you have is not for that car, the title you have is not for any car. The real VIN might be stamped on the drivers side trunk lip under the weather strip.
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It is possible that there was a typo in making a title at some point but that doesn't explain why somebody fabricated a VIN stamping to match that where a VIN stamping wouldn't have existed.
 
A 68 DOES NOT have the vin stamped in the rad support or trunk lip.
 
I haven't had a 68 B body since 1988 but http://www.mmcdetroit.com/ says the 68 B body might have a VIN on the truck lip but not the radiator support.
I agree a 68 A body has no hidden VINs, and MMC is not clear if it is a SO or VIN onbtye truck lip of a 1968 B body.
Can anybody figure the VIN from the SO? Seems like Chrysler would have those records for law enforcement purpose.
 
Another possibility not mentioned is somebody in the mid 70s was trying to scam their insurance agent and modified the VIN the other way to say, "yeah, its just a 318!" That seems like a lot of trouble for a few bucks savings but people seem to go to great measures to save a buck sometimes.
 
Hersbird said:
Can anybody figure the VIN from the SO? Seems like Chrysler would have those records for law enforcement purpose.
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Chrysler has those records for 1967/earlier & theoretically could find it if you knew what plant it came from but it's highly unlikely they would ever research that for you. They will give you the build info for a specific VIN provided you prove ownership & this includes the shop order so you could conclusively verify if a car was rebodied or not but again this applies only to '67 & earlier. For '68 forward you're hosed, Chrysler lost those records, you need original paperwork like build sheet, punch card, data plate for that.
 
Stupid question time.
If this car has no VIN on it, how could anyone prove it is a (specific) stolen car?
Fabed VIN? Isn't that a separate issue?
And, since Texas recognizes the VIN (doesn't have a problem with it) what remedy do they have if your car is missing the VIN through a major repair like a salvage.
Maybe just reissue another VIN and matching tag. Since this car is made up, who cares about the "Chrysler" VIN?
We only care about Texas laws here.
 
adriver said:
Stupid question time.
If this car has no VIN on it, how could anyone prove it is a (specific) stolen car?
Fabed VIN? Isn't that a separate issue?
And, since Texas recognizes the VIN (doesn't have a problem with it) what remedy do they have if your car is missing the VIN through a major repair like a salvage.
Maybe just reissue another VIN and matching tag. Since this car is made up, who cares about the "Chrysler" VIN?
We only care about Texas laws here.
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The best method I know of is to start tracing the history. The person that sold them the car will know if it had a VIN tag at some point when they owned it. They will have the information about where THEY acquired the vehicle. Somewhere in the car's history the answer should be found. They may run into an obstacle if a previous owner has passed away.

I've heard that notarized statements from prior owners will satisfy the governments requirement to prove rightful ownership. I realize it might be a daunting task to trace the information down, but if they're able to get the info it should alleviate any questions regarding rightful ownership and might possibly add to the car's future value (to themselves and others).
 
Hersbird said:
Another possibility not mentioned is somebody in the mid 70s was trying to scam their insurance agent and modified the VIN the other way to say, "yeah, its just a 318!" That seems like a lot of trouble for a few bucks savings but people seem to go to great measures to save a buck sometimes.
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My very first car at that I bought at 16yr's old, was a 1972 charger R/T 340. the 340 was long gone and it had a 318. the vin # on the title had been changed to a 318 before I got it. this was in 1983, & that car was from Texas. I always assumed it was for insurance rate purposes.
 
Wow. Read the whole thing.

Yes that is a very nice looking car.

The predicament sucks. And although I will admit I have bought some cars without looking at the vins, I always look at the vins on vehicles $2k or more.

I am pretty sure some of the members here are on the right track.

It's probably a stolen 1968 roadrunner. But the thiefs did a quick google search and found out there are vin numbers stamped else are on the body...so they stamped fake vins in the locations to match the bogus title. They didn't know that these vins weren't stamped in the body till 1969.

Now can you trace back a possibly stolen car back to it's rightful owners? I doubt it. But if there is a chance that it could be done it would be going through previouse owners and possibly the police.

I would bet money that this is stolen.

I bought a car trailer with no paperwork. Went through insurance to get it registered. They sent out detectives to look for a vin. They couldn't find one. They said it was most defiantly stolen, but they couldn't trace it without a vin. So I was able to apply for a new vin.
 
titan said:
My very first car at that I bought at 16yr's old, was a 1972 charger R/T 340. the 340 was long gone and it had a 318. the vin # on the title had been changed to a 318 before I got it. this was in 1983, & that car was from Texas. I always assumed it was for insurance rate purposes.
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I hate to be the one, but there was NEVER a 72 charger R/T ever produced by Chrysler. 68-71 was all you got for charger R/T's. you could not even get a small block in an R/T until the 1976 aspen R/T. it sounds like you didn't even get a jar of Vaseline with that one.
 
your right , it was a Rallye, I guess I thought they were the same. cost me a whopping $600.00. no vasoline .
 
Diana,
I’ll tell you what I would do if I was you, based on what I understand about your situation and what I know. You plan on keeping the car and are happy with it and will get the Holy Grail Title in Texas?
All good. Other than researching the history to a point, I would let sleeping dogs lie.
Titles are a big subject of debate. Each state is different. Georgia does not issue titles on a older car if you don’t have one.
(That may change. There is legislation)
There are legitimate ways available to get one if you want to for your "Road Runner", I think.
Researching your car might turn something up. It might not. Time and death will cover a multitude of sins.
The car is going on 50. What can we expect to have happened?
Just to give you an example, I have a car with an older title. Not the original title, but old.
I consider it part of the car’s history. It was signed over with notary to the person I bought the car from. I have a notarized bill of sale from that person.
I will not give Georgia the money they want to “transfer” the title. And I may or may not try and contact the person that retitled the car in 74.
It’s a title.
What difference does it make?
The point is if there is no way to definitively identify your car and Texas will issue you a title, I think that is golden in the law.
You have a Certificate of Origin issued by the sovereign state of Texas.
It is a curiosity and relic.
Others may differ for sure, But that’s my opinion.
It's just as likely you have a Frankencar as a complete stolen car.
Or both.
 

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Having briefly lived in TX it got my curiosity up regarding new titles. Their laws are pretty weak regarding VIN verifications, basically you just need an individual and/or inspection station to say the car's legit & you're good to go. They do tell you it's a felony to falsify the info but that won't stop a crook. There's no instructions regarding where the VIN on the car should be, heck you could pencil it in on the fender & probably be OK legally. Regarding tracing back the ownership history of the car, house money says at some point you run into Sgt. Schultz (I know NOOOOTHING).
 
adriver said:
Diana,
I’ll tell you what I would do if I was you, based on what I understand about your situation and what I know. You plan on keeping the car and are happy with it and will get the Holy Grail Title in Texas?
All good. Other than researching the history to a point, I would let sleeping dogs lie.
Titles are a big subject of debate. Each state is different. Georgia does not issue titles on a older car if you don’t have one.
(That may change. There is legislation)
There are legitimate ways available to get one if you want to for your "Road Runner", I think.
Researching your car might turn something up. It might not. Time and death will cover a multitude of sins.
The car is going on 50. What can we expect to have happened?
Just to give you an example, I have a car with an older title. Not the original title, but old.
I consider it part of the car’s history. It was signed over with notary to the person I bought the car from. I have a notarized bill of sale from that person.
I will not give Georgia the money they want to “transfer” the title. And I may or may not try and contact the person that retitled the car in 74.
It’s a title.
What difference does it make?
The point is if there is no way to definitively identify your car and Texas will issue you a title, I think that is golden in the law.
You have a Certificate of Origin issued by the sovereign state of Texas.
It is a curiosity and relic.
Others may differ for sure, But that’s my opinion.
It's just as likely you have a Frankencar as a complete stolen car.
Or both.
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Good morning adriver

My only heir, my husband, thinks the way you do. We have a clean, clear Texas Title and he's gonna drive the wheels off of it anyway. No plans to sell it. In another 20 years, the car will be 70. Too many years under the bridge to worry about what happened in the past.

Next time one of our good friends come into town (ex-body man), we'll have him take a look. He's pretty knowledgeable.

It's my curiosity that is peaked and I'm somewhat anal retentive so wanted more info and a dang dash plate. Hubby could care less. He just wants to turn heads and has bigger things to worry about.
 
396 Signet said:
Having briefly lived in TX it got my curiosity up regarding new titles. Their laws are pretty weak regarding VIN verifications, basically you just need an individual and/or inspection station to say the car's legit & you're good to go. They do tell you it's a felony to falsify the info but that won't stop a crook. There's no instructions regarding where the VIN on the car should be, heck you could pencil it in on the fender & probably be OK legally. Regarding tracing back the ownership history of the car, house money says at some point you run into Sgt. Schultz (I know NOOOOTHING).
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Morning 396 Signet

Like I said in a number of earlier posts, Texas does things differently. With the car being 50 years old, it is highly unlikely anything is ever going to surface especially if hubby keeps it for another 10 or 20 years.
 
Hersbird said:
I haven't had a 68 B body since 1988 but http://www.mmcdetroit.com/ says the 68 B body might have a VIN on the truck lip but not the radiator support.
I agree a 68 A body has no hidden VINs, and MMC is not clear if it is a SO or VIN onbtye truck lip of a 1968 B body.
Can anybody figure the VIN from the SO? Seems like Chrysler would have those records for law enforcement purpose.
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Hersbird

Thanks so much for the contact for MMC Detroit. Just spoke to the most knowledgeable person and things are looking up. The 68' does have a sequence order number on the radiator support and in the trunk under the weather stripping so that's my first step.

I'll continue to work with them to straighten this matter out.

Again, thanks so much for the contact info.
 
Diana you don't have to peel the weatherstripping from the trunk to verify. They stamp it hard so it leaves a clear imprint on the bottom side as well. Just do a light pencil rub from under the lip.
 
Diana's Dart said:
Thanks so much for the contact for MMC Detroit. Just spoke to the most knowledgeable person and things are looking up. The 68' does have a sequence order number on the radiator support and in the trunk under the weather stripping so that's my first step.

I'll continue to work with them to straighten this matter out.
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Please read post 184. The SO & VIN sequence are 2 different animals. Anyone telling you they can tie the 2 together without the proper docs is just blowing smoke.
 
RustyRatRod said:
The guys giving you advice on this thread are not just "some guys on a forum".

They know their stuff. This bunch is the most knowledgeable I have ever seen. You're being given good information. Don't brush it off. That would be a mistake.
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I agree. I'm not going to brush it off. Working on trying to get it cleared up. Thanks.
 
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