I have a question about using a billet style starter rather than the standard shown on a 71’ LA 360 block. I have broke a second one and its not loose or kicks back when starting. Just a 10:0-1 pumpgas motor runs on 93. Shouldnt break the billet but im not sure if it fits. Thanks
SB standard or billet starter ?
- Thread starter Mims Gt
- Start date
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I have a question about using a billet style starter rather than the standard shown on a 71’ LA 360 block. I have broke a second one and its not loose or kicks back when starting. Just a 10:0-1 pumpgas motor runs on 93. Shouldnt break the billet but im not sure if it fits. Thanks
Strange because there is not a lot of load on that part of the starter a lot of new ones do not have that end support ,i have shattered a couple through kickback but further up at the casing where the 2 bolts hold the stator on.
It is strange and a pain in the *** to get in and out due to it molded around the headers . it is a stroker motor but nothing crazy.
The 1 pictured still has a cast front housing this is 1 i ordered with a true CNC front mounting ,all ball bearing & series wound field instead of permanent magnets quite expensive but it beats changing the thing again
The billet starter in your first post is for a Chevy. It won't fit a Mopar.
Dave999
Well-Known Member
standard will and should be fine, you can even get good service from the $50 rebuilds from rockauto. i pushed one into servoce 10 years ago and have never looked back
mine is a 12:1 CR I6 using a 25 mm pinion on the starter so i loose on CR but win on gearing
and probably average out same as you.
the issue with these starters is that they will quite hapilliy start your motor when they are not quite installed properly. that lovely front of tooth profile you get with a denso means its gonna engage to some extent with the ring gear whatever angle it approaches at.
I'm not saying you haven't installed it properly i agree you might just be unlucky BUT having not installed one properly myself (my standard one, hence the need for replacment) i know it can happen, and then the added akwardness of getting the new one to seat.... you'll see where i'm coming from....
1) if you use the bellhousing seal for an original starter it can intefere with proper seating. you need one cut for a denso or remove it and suffer grubby bellhousing.
2) the nose on the new style starter is more of a push fit into the bellhousing register than the old style. you can get the starter in with the nose hung up on the register at the base of the dome in the bell and it feels like its in right, but its not you wont get the reassuring clonk if its not.
3) on some blocks mainly big blocks there are bosses used in casting that stick out and will not allow the starter to seat due to pressure against the motor body or solenoid. these bosses can be ground down a few thou to faciltate a proper perpendicular to flywheel/ring gear mounting
if any of the 3 above occur it leaves litterlly a fraction of an inch gap between the bell houseing face and the starter face at one of the mounting points. meaning that the lug on the starter mount is stressed just by being mounted and the nut done up. Use of the starter in this position smashes the nose off eventually. the nose casting is thinner than the mounting lug casting so it goes first.
starter mounted.... and starter mounted with a couple of thou last "Clonk" into position are two different things.
you can dress the tapered end of the D spigot on the nose of the stater with a file and grease the end thinly to help
you can blast out the register in the bell with a air or with care WD40... try not to get it on your clutch.... althogh it does burn off.
the contour of the "jaws" of this starter are tighter than standard starter and getting it round the ring gear with 1 mounting stud engaged is harder
this starter also came on bell housings with 2 different sizes of mounting stud
a big hole starter on a small stud bellhousing needs just a little more care in mounting,
the section of the starter that follows the edge of the bell housing should follow the edge of the bellhousing. slightly off centre is not great, but properly seated but off centre doesn't tend to cause this problem . infact its easier to install the big hole starter on a small stud housing more wiggle room around headers etc.
if you are using a steel scattershield type bell. it may not have any support beyond the 2 mounting stud/bolt. no spigot in the bell. in that case the starter mounting surface of the bellhousing is twisting under the torque of the starter and thats why it breaks. it pushes the nose outwards away from the ring gear and the end of the stater body into the block and snaps off the nose. according to forum posts one manufacturer produced steel aftermarket housings that did this, for quite a while, but i've seen no one complaining for 10 + years. no experience with this, just hearsay that may be relevant.
id suggest that unless you are starting a massive race motor spending $100s on a nice big red one with lightening bolt stickers on it, is not necessary
you can of course repair that broken starter. you just need to find a company with access to the denso spares catalogue and get them to get you a new chrysler spec nose.
or you could probably cut the remains off and run it as it is....it would get you going until new one arrives. i like the 3rd mounting point myself if the nose is cast but not the end of the world for short term use
Dave
mine is a 12:1 CR I6 using a 25 mm pinion on the starter so i loose on CR but win on gearing
and probably average out same as you.
the issue with these starters is that they will quite hapilliy start your motor when they are not quite installed properly. that lovely front of tooth profile you get with a denso means its gonna engage to some extent with the ring gear whatever angle it approaches at.
I'm not saying you haven't installed it properly i agree you might just be unlucky BUT having not installed one properly myself (my standard one, hence the need for replacment) i know it can happen, and then the added akwardness of getting the new one to seat.... you'll see where i'm coming from....
1) if you use the bellhousing seal for an original starter it can intefere with proper seating. you need one cut for a denso or remove it and suffer grubby bellhousing.
2) the nose on the new style starter is more of a push fit into the bellhousing register than the old style. you can get the starter in with the nose hung up on the register at the base of the dome in the bell and it feels like its in right, but its not you wont get the reassuring clonk if its not.
3) on some blocks mainly big blocks there are bosses used in casting that stick out and will not allow the starter to seat due to pressure against the motor body or solenoid. these bosses can be ground down a few thou to faciltate a proper perpendicular to flywheel/ring gear mounting
if any of the 3 above occur it leaves litterlly a fraction of an inch gap between the bell houseing face and the starter face at one of the mounting points. meaning that the lug on the starter mount is stressed just by being mounted and the nut done up. Use of the starter in this position smashes the nose off eventually. the nose casting is thinner than the mounting lug casting so it goes first.
starter mounted.... and starter mounted with a couple of thou last "Clonk" into position are two different things.
you can dress the tapered end of the D spigot on the nose of the stater with a file and grease the end thinly to help
you can blast out the register in the bell with a air or with care WD40... try not to get it on your clutch.... althogh it does burn off.
the contour of the "jaws" of this starter are tighter than standard starter and getting it round the ring gear with 1 mounting stud engaged is harder
this starter also came on bell housings with 2 different sizes of mounting stud
a big hole starter on a small stud bellhousing needs just a little more care in mounting,
the section of the starter that follows the edge of the bell housing should follow the edge of the bellhousing. slightly off centre is not great, but properly seated but off centre doesn't tend to cause this problem . infact its easier to install the big hole starter on a small stud housing more wiggle room around headers etc.
if you are using a steel scattershield type bell. it may not have any support beyond the 2 mounting stud/bolt. no spigot in the bell. in that case the starter mounting surface of the bellhousing is twisting under the torque of the starter and thats why it breaks. it pushes the nose outwards away from the ring gear and the end of the stater body into the block and snaps off the nose. according to forum posts one manufacturer produced steel aftermarket housings that did this, for quite a while, but i've seen no one complaining for 10 + years. no experience with this, just hearsay that may be relevant.
id suggest that unless you are starting a massive race motor spending $100s on a nice big red one with lightening bolt stickers on it, is not necessary
you can of course repair that broken starter. you just need to find a company with access to the denso spares catalogue and get them to get you a new chrysler spec nose.
or you could probably cut the remains off and run it as it is....it would get you going until new one arrives. i like the 3rd mounting point myself if the nose is cast but not the end of the world for short term use
Dave
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I went through this. It seems like the ones with the "open" nose like the one that broke keep breaking. Look for one that is more soldi smaller holes or solid.
Hellrats
Just another dumbass
Make sure the side of the starter in not hitting the side of the engine block. I have had to grind down a few of them when using the mini type starter. It has only been on the 360 blocks too. There is a casting bump on the engine block. It will hold the starter at a slight angle.
I ordered this exact starter and when it showed up, it had a cast snout. I am calling them today to see why....
Bill
Here’s another trick I learned from a friend who has broken a few starter snouts. Use a bushing to take up slop in the big (upper) stud hole.
WHY don't you simply use the factory big Chrysler starter? Space issues would be the only reason I would use a mini starter. Those old big Chrysler starters worked fine for decades. Say it again. DECADES. DECADES.
Just got mine same deal cheap cast front housing & side mount terminals instead of machined aluminum & rear mount terminals as pictured its seems CVR are hoodwinking its customers
Someone beat me to it, I was going to say use the bushing to down size the large bolt hole. I did this after destroying a couple of starters and have had no problems since.
i actually replaced upper bolt with a longer one and nutted back side same as bottom bolt for fear of it coming loose again. Well apon removing broken starter, bolts were still tight as hell.
It's not to keep the bolt tight, although that is obviously important. It's to prevent the starter from moving due to the torque generated from the gear reduction. Imagine the body of the starter shifting (from torque) and the snout remaining stationary in the receiver end of the bellhousing. The result of this is a broken snout.
Swinger 340
Well-Known Member
Not sure if this has anything to do with breaking starters, but I have always used the big armature starters in my 340's and never had an issue. 727's, 833's, headers and stock manifolds. With and without dust covers or shims. Never noticed, but possible the cones are reenforced.
goldduster318
Overzealous Car Modifier
I broke one by not having the cover in place. Once I put the plate in, I never had another problem.
JDMopar
Well-Known Member
@-Boosted- Did you make the bushing in reply #12 above, or buy it as is? Good tip and something I need to do to mine!
I would NOT use a bush. That hole is larger.....for a good engineering reason. The starter has a three point mounting: nose fits into a machined recess + two fasteners.
The hole is enlarged so that the fastener for that hole can find it's own centre, to allow for manufacturing tolerances. Bushing the hole for a tight fit may stress the metal....& break the starter nose. When the fastener is adequately torqued, there is no need for a bush because the starter cannot move.
The hole is enlarged so that the fastener for that hole can find it's own centre, to allow for manufacturing tolerances. Bushing the hole for a tight fit may stress the metal....& break the starter nose. When the fastener is adequately torqued, there is no need for a bush because the starter cannot move.
Yeah, you didn't see problems like this with the stock large gear reduction starters Chrysler used. Like I said earlier, the only reason I'd go to a mini starter would be lack of space.
I made it out of a bronze bushing that I had. I'll give you the specs on it in the morning if you want.
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