72swgnr
Well-Known Member
Does someone want to clarrify the difference between the "I" beam and "H" beam rods pros and cons etc
school me on stroker smallblocks
- Thread starter prodart340
- Start date
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prodart340
Well-Known Member
wow,posted the question,went to carlisle and, BOOM !!!!!!!!!!!! lol i completely understand about the balancing thing. after building the steel cranked 340 I'm currently running{7 yrs and counting since last rebuild},the question I should have asked is what will happen when I go spinning a 418 up to 6500 rpm on a regular basis????,the car will take it 727,dana,spool,etc
That's your quote genius. So grab an assembly intended for internal balance and do your suggestion. Your statement(s) are inherently wrong on it's face!
I won't even start on the issues of external balancing when you have the opportunity to internal balance.
Balancing the piston won't help with a setup intended/designed for internal or external... you do that with either set up. I won't bore you with the detail of why, because I'm clearly not an intellectual genius compared to you.
Not that easy and based on this statement alone, you have NO IDEA what you are talking about.
You want to insult me, go ahead... I've been called much worse by better.
Your post when you are wrong tell me more than I, and the rest here, need to know about you. And there have been a few! Defend to the end, it's only a small leak said the captain of the Titanic! :-D
It's not a hysterical tantrum, it's making sure people don't destroy their engines which they probably paid good money for relying on bad info distributed on the web.
I won't continue this. I hope the OP talks with a competent machinist and not take Mals advice.
redfastback
Don't ask me... my garage is empty
Wow, Moparmal.....ease up.
If you balance a crank by itself, what is the point? You need to ALWAYS balance a rotating assembly as a whole or not at all. All parts in the rotating assembly vary alot between what the combo and brands are.
I myself, nor either of my machinists, will ever buy a "pre-balanced" rotating assembly.
If you balance a crank by itself, what is the point? You need to ALWAYS balance a rotating assembly as a whole or not at all. All parts in the rotating assembly vary alot between what the combo and brands are.
I myself, nor either of my machinists, will ever buy a "pre-balanced" rotating assembly.
Cracked back - time to own up - You obviously thought I was talking about the whole deal (Slugs rods etc) being fixed with a damper and a flex plate - - and then realised you'd shot his mouth off.
Your problem is a simple one - you flunked grade 3 english obviously.
Sooooooooooo CB, lets deal with your insane accusation -
Do you want to tell us all - Where I was talking about externally balancing an internal balanced crank? Hmmmmm??????
No you can't - because its not there is it? Here's the discussion -
Its there for all to see - READ THESE TWO QUOTES - ONE FOLLOWS THE OTHER IN THIS THREAD
340sfastback typed -
Then I typed -
Notice the bit in bold?
Any fool reading this would know I was replying to 340s about another option for balancing the crank IF it required weight added - PERIOD.
And of course this is assuming it requires EXTRA weight, not weight removal.
So now - we are all across who holds seat 1A on the Titanic, aren't we?;)
- I won't even bother with that - I'm not into selling tickets to your own personal train wreck.
I'm not so proud to pretend I know a whole lot about balancing - but what you hate is that as far as it goes - I'm right - my comment is till valid as an option for a light crank - combined with other steps.
We can all see that now - So now we know even more about you, don't we CB?:bootysha:
At least you got that right....
Your problem is a simple one - you flunked grade 3 english obviously.
Sooooooooooo CB, lets deal with your insane accusation -
Do you want to tell us all - Where I was talking about externally balancing an internal balanced crank? Hmmmmm??????
No you can't - because its not there is it? Here's the discussion -
Its there for all to see - READ THESE TWO QUOTES - ONE FOLLOWS THE OTHER IN THIS THREAD
340sfastback typed -
Then I typed -
Notice the bit in bold?
Any fool reading this would know I was replying to 340s about another option for balancing the crank IF it required weight added - PERIOD.
And of course this is assuming it requires EXTRA weight, not weight removal.
So now - we are all across who holds seat 1A on the Titanic, aren't we?;)
- I won't even bother with that - I'm not into selling tickets to your own personal train wreck.
I'm not so proud to pretend I know a whole lot about balancing - but what you hate is that as far as it goes - I'm right - my comment is till valid as an option for a light crank - combined with other steps.
We can all see that now - So now we know even more about you, don't we CB?:bootysha:
At least you got that right....
Yep cheers, I know mate 8) - my reply was simply another option instead balancing the crank internally as 340Sfastback suggested - I kind of thought people know thats not the end of it.....thats why I mentioned piston assembly balancing as well.
,- You can thank old Cracked Back for getting it all out of shape - the Iceberg got in the way....:sign5:..
skybolt
Well-Known Member
http://www.eaglerod.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=28&Itemid=25
Click on the link above. This explains the issue of internal or external balancing very well. It's right off the Eagle website. Hope this helps.
Click on the link above. This explains the issue of internal or external balancing very well. It's right off the Eagle website. Hope this helps.
skybolt
Well-Known Member
I know mopar knows what he is talking about but the explanation from the Eagle website better explains why you should opt for the internally balanced crank vs. the externally balanced if you are going to internally balance. Just thought it was an easier to understand explanation for the guys new to engine building.
There is no reason to be concerned with the "crankshaft balance".
Your wrong on that point too. I'm sure you'll try to find a way to defend it.
I put you on ignore mal, another thread killing prose, Congrats! Cool, have at it with insulting people, not the first time you've done it here or other boards.
Your wrong on that point too. I'm sure you'll try to find a way to defend it.
I put you on ignore mal, another thread killing prose, Congrats! Cool, have at it with insulting people, not the first time you've done it here or other boards.
george
Well-Known Member
And the beat goes on....Ramcharger, crackedback, talk to you off-board...as usual. ROFLMAO!
P.S.Got two of the cars home, but neither are Mopars, will pm a couple pics later.
P.S.Got two of the cars home, but neither are Mopars, will pm a couple pics later.
george
Well-Known Member
I normally avoid these threads like the plague, (just like I avoid externally balanced motors with long strokes, YIKES) but I will say something here, just to save some machinists some grief in dealing with some of our members.
Moper mentioned the cost of balancing will vary depending on the shop, a much bigger cost variable is the quality/compatibility of the components you hand that shop in the first place. I'm sure Moper knows this, just forgot to mention it.
Moper mentioned the cost of balancing will vary depending on the shop, a much bigger cost variable is the quality/compatibility of the components you hand that shop in the first place. I'm sure Moper knows this, just forgot to mention it.
moper
Well-Known Member
Sky, great link. we all can only look from our perspectives. I find my way of thinking isnt that common and I try to put things in a way everybody can get. I am not always successful...lol. My therapist and the voices in my head say I'm getting better 
.
.
68fastback
Well-Known Member
My therapist and the voices in my head say I'm getting better
That is too funny.
jimmyray
Well-Known Member
- Joined
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Never argue with an idiot, because they will only bring you down to their level and beat you by experience.- John Guerrero
A stupid man's report of what a clever man says is never accurate because he unconsciously translates what he hears into something he can understand.- Bertrand Russell
The most entertaining and ironic part of being an idiot is not being smart enough to realize that you are, and thereby do anything about it. - Isaac M. Lucero
Throw a rock at a pack of dogs, and the one who yelps is the one who got hit - Anonymous
:lurk:
A stupid man's report of what a clever man says is never accurate because he unconsciously translates what he hears into something he can understand.- Bertrand Russell
The most entertaining and ironic part of being an idiot is not being smart enough to realize that you are, and thereby do anything about it. - Isaac M. Lucero
Throw a rock at a pack of dogs, and the one who yelps is the one who got hit - Anonymous
:lurk:
prodart340
Well-Known Member
dang,sorry guys,I'll ask my questions elsewhere,,,,,,,,,,,,and can anyone send me a list of the topics to avoid for future reference :boxing: lol
The best suggestion for anyone building an engine, know what you want it to do before you spend a dime on it. It will save you a ton of money in the long run.
You're in WV, call Ryan at Shady Dell in PA. If you want another good guy on the west coast, Brian at Indio Motor Machine. Grab the books and read up as it will give you a great baseline to approach a big SB build.
Good luck with it.
and i think the best suggestion for you Crackedback is if your gonna throw a brick - make sure I don't have a truck load waiting for you.
- so you've gone into hiding and have left your cheer leaders here to defend your honour? Is it true that buffalo herd for safety as well? LOL!!
Anyhow –I appreciate the right of reply granted by the admin. – and I think you know I don’t lie down easy over this.
You see, I don't like being misquoted and miss represented - especially by an illiterate.
So to business - ,
1 / PRODART – I apologise for taking the thread OT - FWIW – the point I made is simply this:
That IF the balanced assembly provided by a supplier is garbage – an external balance by a shop on an unbalanced kit (as suggested by 340S) will be the cheapest viable option on a lighter than bob weight assembly.
Should you desire a better job, 340sDarts advice applies.
Not exactly brain surgery to understand, eh Cracked??
So moving on to deal with this "fantasy island" post Cracked has created....
2 / On CrackedBacks comments about my alleged “history” –
I could have posted the “sky is blue” and he would have disagreed.
I reckon CrackedBack has a deep seated problem with people who defend themselves. Clearly his agenda from the start was to behave like a self-righteous tool.
3/ - On his fanatasy claims -
Anytime Cracked Back wants to come out of hiding, and apologise for claiming I was talking about externally balancing an internally balanced crank – I’m sure most of the forum will think him a bigger man for doing so.
4/ - On "killing the thread "... LOL!!!-
Well I kind of didn’t expect to be attacked over some simple remark like the option to balance an un-balanced assembly using an external system (assuming weight must be added) in response to 340sDart
So what we’re left with is a member who:
A - Has clearly made a bad call on what I posted,
B - Has been provided with proof that he made that “bad call”, then went off half- cut, and now won’t admit he got it wrong, and
C - Has to resort to mud slinging about my rep. - to his "pony club"– something I think most of us consider is the province of bored seniors.
And finally –For those worried about Crackedback’s “ignore button” – rest easy . He’ll read this reply because his cheer squad will send it on – That’s because he obviously places great stock in what others tell him to think.
...and lord spare us all from illiteracy.
- so you've gone into hiding and have left your cheer leaders here to defend your honour? Is it true that buffalo herd for safety as well? LOL!!
Anyhow –I appreciate the right of reply granted by the admin. – and I think you know I don’t lie down easy over this.
You see, I don't like being misquoted and miss represented - especially by an illiterate.
So to business - ,
1 / PRODART – I apologise for taking the thread OT - FWIW – the point I made is simply this:
That IF the balanced assembly provided by a supplier is garbage – an external balance by a shop on an unbalanced kit (as suggested by 340S) will be the cheapest viable option on a lighter than bob weight assembly.
Should you desire a better job, 340sDarts advice applies.
Not exactly brain surgery to understand, eh Cracked??
So moving on to deal with this "fantasy island" post Cracked has created....
2 / On CrackedBacks comments about my alleged “history” –
I could have posted the “sky is blue” and he would have disagreed.
I reckon CrackedBack has a deep seated problem with people who defend themselves. Clearly his agenda from the start was to behave like a self-righteous tool.
3/ - On his fanatasy claims -
Anytime Cracked Back wants to come out of hiding, and apologise for claiming I was talking about externally balancing an internally balanced crank – I’m sure most of the forum will think him a bigger man for doing so.
4/ - On "killing the thread "... LOL!!!-
Well I kind of didn’t expect to be attacked over some simple remark like the option to balance an un-balanced assembly using an external system (assuming weight must be added) in response to 340sDart
So what we’re left with is a member who:
A - Has clearly made a bad call on what I posted,
B - Has been provided with proof that he made that “bad call”, then went off half- cut, and now won’t admit he got it wrong, and
C - Has to resort to mud slinging about my rep. - to his "pony club"– something I think most of us consider is the province of bored seniors.
And finally –For those worried about Crackedback’s “ignore button” – rest easy . He’ll read this reply because his cheer squad will send it on – That’s because he obviously places great stock in what others tell him to think.
...and lord spare us all from illiteracy.
redfastback
Don't ask me... my garage is empty
Moparmal,
If you need to continue your harsh feelings about CB, do it in a PM. This thread has become YOUR day in court to prove yourself. I think it's time for you to stop worrying about CB and wash your hands of this thread. I know you are trying to help, but this thread is way off track. Just leave this thread to the OP and others trying to help. It is the right thing to do.
I happen to know CB and he is very knowleagable. I am not taking sides, just want to see this thread get the attention it deserves, whether you , CB or I post or not. TIme to move forward and just drop it.
If you need to continue your harsh feelings about CB, do it in a PM. This thread has become YOUR day in court to prove yourself. I think it's time for you to stop worrying about CB and wash your hands of this thread. I know you are trying to help, but this thread is way off track. Just leave this thread to the OP and others trying to help. It is the right thing to do.
I happen to know CB and he is very knowleagable. I am not taking sides, just want to see this thread get the attention it deserves, whether you , CB or I post or not. TIme to move forward and just drop it.
I think the two of you (Cracked back and Mal) need to step aside and relax here a second. Mal, you were not exactly clear and when posting on the site, one needs to be crystal for those who don't know or are marginal on there knowledge. This would require a bit more typeing than normal and explaining yourself in a manor that can be taken as insultiong due to the use of the K.I.S.S. method.
(Keep It Stupid Simple)
While I am no angle, lets keep the bickering down and smart convo up. Not smart *** convo, just use the gray matter inside the skull.
(Keep It Stupid Simple)
While I am no angle, lets keep the bickering down and smart convo up. Not smart *** convo, just use the gray matter inside the skull.
1wild&crazyguy
Banned
he said 'angle' he he
All I know is at the bottom of every cylinder needs clearance for the rod bolts when using H-beams.
When studding the bottom end the rear main stud under the oil pump needs to be ground down and the use of a 12 point nut along with grinding the bottom of the pump itself.
Always check these after market cranks especially the chinese ones.
And if you end up with a set of regular old main bearings YOU MUST PUT THEM ON A LATHE AND NARROW THEM otherwise your crank will not turn.
On the rods you will find as with all radius journal cranks that you need special narrow rod bearings, they will be marked upper/lower don't mix them up or you could do as the mains and lathe.
just a few things to bring this back to planet earth. he he
All I know is at the bottom of every cylinder needs clearance for the rod bolts when using H-beams.
When studding the bottom end the rear main stud under the oil pump needs to be ground down and the use of a 12 point nut along with grinding the bottom of the pump itself.
Always check these after market cranks especially the chinese ones.
And if you end up with a set of regular old main bearings YOU MUST PUT THEM ON A LATHE AND NARROW THEM otherwise your crank will not turn.
On the rods you will find as with all radius journal cranks that you need special narrow rod bearings, they will be marked upper/lower don't mix them up or you could do as the mains and lathe.
just a few things to bring this back to planet earth. he he
moper
Well-Known Member
Pro - Sorry if we went too far off topic here. To answer this simply.. If your engine is built well, nothign happens but a lot of power. But, the peak power of most of these street builds will be right about 6K. SO you dont need to rev it unless and until you give it good heads and a carb to support it. You asked about tips/tricks, and most were given, albeit maybe a little less than perfectly. For me, I stud the mains. Always. I internally balance. Always. I do order the 12pt ARP studs and cut down #5 under the oil pump. I have run stock pans and windage trays with good results. I dont run HV oil pumps, but i do modify the drainback and the oil passages in the block. If you need to make power around 6500 because of gearing and tire, then I would go with a better head. Something like the 360-1 Indy package, a set of ported W2s, or a set of B1-BAs. Those will make plenty of steam where you need it to be. Fully ported RPMs will just barely make it and be maxxed out. The others will have room to grow later. Plan on at least an HP950 carb and run 1 7/8" tube headers at least. I would go for a foorged crank and something like a K1 Ibeam rod and a good Diamon Foged piston.
Hope that helps a litle more than we have.
Fair enough - I'm happy to learn - as long as Im not misquoted. 8)
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