School me on wiring

[zkx14]

Mymopar.com for factory elec schematic get one or its all voodoo anyway.

Last I checked there is no 74 FSM there, just the simplified A-B pages. Not sure when the actual cars started using it, but 74 FSM has the seatbelt interlock crap and I don't think the 2 page 74 version shows it. Unless there is some reason to keep it (probably already gone) I would go without it. I don't know what is involved to eliminate it from the 74 harness, but maybe could use a 73 harness and then use the 73 FSM which is on Mymopar? Anybody who has dealt with getting rid of the interlock please comment if any other issues to do that. (ie electronic ignition probably)
I had the opposite problem. My late 75 does not have the interlock, but 75 book does.. Had to use a 76 FSM.

 

[BigBlockMopar28]

Yeah i have a 73 harness from a duster. Same car i got my front end out of. Im not really concerned with having everything factory original, (wont have speakers, seatbelt interlock stuff, etc). In other words, factory service manuals with have routes for a lot of things i wont need. But ill still try to find one. Thanks for the feedback guys, it really helps

 

[RogerRamRod]

I noticed a few weeks ago that I didn't see a Del response on a thread where I thoroughly expected one. I then realized I hadn't seen anything from him in a while. Anybody know that he is OK?
Oh, get the multi-meter and test light and practice on a few known good circuits to get comfortable with what you should be seeing. Learn how relays work (they are simple) modern cars use a boatload of them, so I cant buy into the unreliability theory.

 

[RustyRatRod]

I threw all that out there because Del's not here, just pickin up the slack until he returns!! See Del, somebody was listnin!!!

We're all trying to help......and that's some of the problem. Everybody does things differently, which is why I steered him to books, rather than internet forum opinions.

He's essentially asking for a crash course in automotive electrical, which will have disastrous consequences coming from an internet forum for several reasons, IMO. Not the least of which is because we all do things differently. Also because of all of the electrical symbols that are on most diagrams and schematics.

Sure, you can trace wires on a diagram or schematic and hope you get it right, but the best way is to learn how to properly READ the diagram or schematic in the first place. An internet forum AIN'T the place for that education.

If he wants to learn, get it right, with no bias as to this way or that, his best bet will be to find some good books and learn it for himself, at his own speed, with no one trying to cram one single way down his throat.

It's easy to see just exactly why Del decided to take a break. This is the same reason my post count has plummeted as of late. Everybody loves to show off intelligence. Problem is, a lot of the time it's wrong. I've just decided that if I don't know something, I'm either keepin my trap shut, or I will tell someone where to find the answer, because as much as some of us think we know it all and just love to show it off, we don't.

 

[RustyRatRod]

He's fine.

I noticed a few weeks ago that I didn't see a Del response on a thread where I thoroughly expected one. I then realized I hadn't seen anything from him in a while. Anybody know that he is OK?
Oh, get the multi-meter and test light and practice on a few known good circuits to get comfortable with what you should be seeing. Learn how relays work (they are simple) modern cars use a boatload of them, so I cant buy into the unreliability theory.

 

[cosgig]

We're all trying to help......and that's some of the problem. Everybody does things differently, which is why I steered him to books, rather than internet forum opinions.

He's essentially asking for a crash course in automotive electrical, which will have disastrous consequences coming from an internet forum for several reasons, IMO. Not the least of which is because we all do things differently. Also because of all of the electrical symbols that are on most diagrams and schematics.

Sure, you can trace wires on a diagram or schematic and hope you get it right, but the best way is to learn how to properly READ the diagram or schematic in the first place. An internet forum AIN'T the place for that education.

If he wants to learn, get it right, with no bias as to this way or that, his best bet will be to find some good books and learn it for himself, at his own speed, with no one trying to cram one single way down his throat.

It's easy to see just exactly why Del decided to take a break. This is the same reason my post count has plummeted as of late. Everybody loves to show off intelligence. Problem is, a lot of the time it's wrong. I've just decided that if I don't know something, I'm either keepin my trap shut, or I will tell someone where to find the answer, because as much as some of us think we know it all and just love to show it off, we don't.

Well, the good thing about the factory wiring schematic is that it calls out the colors of the wires with tracers and all of the components in clearly written form! It's pretty easy to trace where a wire goes simply by following the color of the wire! I'm not trying to be a know it all, I'm just stating what Del said over and over, which rings true! If you're going to own a car for any length of time, compile a stockload of information on it, and the factory service manual, and wiring schmematic in this case is the definitive answer! Just as your suggestion alludes to, get information, study said information, and head into the project with said information!

 

[BillGrissom]

I'll add that the old 1960-70's schematics are quite easy to read. Not only was the wiring simpler then, but the diagrams were drawn by humans and the components are drawn as they look in real life. You can even find after-market drawings of specific circuits like the charging or ignition which focus only on those wires, in vivid colors. In newer cars (say 1995+), the schematics are computer-generated and it takes time to figure out how to interpret them. For all, you learn by jumping in.

 

[1969383S]

Lot's of good and great suggestions posted all of them have merit.

If you have a fear or truly do not understand it then I would advise hiring someone that does, and preferably some one willing to show and teach you. I prefer working with a good clean factory harness. Simple mods you may desire can be relatively easy to perform. Installing a complete aftermarket wiring system can be very daunting!

Don't forget many of the these cars are over or approaching 50 years of service and multiple owners modification and time in service sometimes warrants complete replacement with reproduction originals or full aftermarket kits!

 

[RustyRatRod]

No, I wasnt talkin about you, dork. You're one of the few that tries to help no matter what.

Well, the good thing about the factory wiring schematic is that it calls out the colors of the wires with tracers and all of the components in clearly written form! It's pretty easy to trace where a wire goes simply by following the color of the wire! I'm not trying to be a know it all, I'm just stating what Del said over and over, which rings true! If you're going to own a car for any length of time, compile a stockload of information on it, and the factory service manual, and wiring schmematic in this case is the definitive answer! Just as your suggestion alludes to, get information, study said information, and head into the project with said information!

 

[harrisonm]

As Rusty said, he is asking for a crash course in auto electrics. He basically admitted that he knows nothing about auto electrics. Unless he is a really good mechanic, I don't see this ending well unless he prepares carefully. I know a lot of guys who are good wrenchers, but they shy away from electric work. I am pretty good at it, but I've learned it over years of work and lots of reading/research. First, find a good book on auto electrics and read it. Second, get a good quality wire diagram for your car and study it carefully. Then lay out the wire harness(s) you are going to use and inspect it carefully and fix any cracks or frayed wires. If in doubt about the quality of the harness, do not use it. Lastly, follow the diagram and move slowly. There are no points for speed. I would wire up anything that is not stock last.

 

[cosgig]

So, where would one find a book about auto wiring that would reference older cars, or Mopars specifically?? I can see books referencing hot rod wiring from scratch being available, and maybe books on newer stuff, but I would think that a book relating to refurbishing existing wiring as a hard to find book!!

 

[whitepunkonnitro]

Not trying to start a pissing match here but relays are



It's pretty simple really, in the case of a electric fuel pump. A novice might find a keyed hot wire and simply tap into this wire to run the pump. If amp draw is too high and wire not rated for the current draw it could burn the car to the ground. Now if same wire was used to simply trigger a relay it's no problem! That's what relays are for. That's why new vehicles use them for vertually everything. It's also why ma Mopar used a starter relay. When you start adding things to a harness that wasn't designed to have it you need to take that into account

That doesn't make any sense. The keyed power source will trigger the relay, yes..but the pump still needs a power source and ground. You have not circumnavigated a potential problem, only added an extra circuit to it.
There is a bank on the fuse block that is protected by the fusable link, fed by the key, and intended to carry amp loads similar to what an electric fuel pump will draw.
Piggy back from that and all is well.

 

[KitCarlson]

Find a good book. That's much better than posting on an internet forum where no one can or ever will agree on any one subject. That's my advice and I'm stickin to it.

Great idea. This is the wiring book I have, I even met the author at Carlisle show. It shows examples of basic car circuits, parts, tools,wiring diagrams, and explanations.

 

[younggun2.0]

That doesn't make any sense. The keyed power source will trigger the relay, yes..but the pump still needs a power source and ground. You have not circumnavigated a potential problem, only added an extra circuit to it.
There is a bank on the fuse block that is protected by the fusable link, fed by the key, and intended to carry amp loads similar to what an electric fuel pump will draw.
Piggy back from that and all is well.[/

ok man, relays are stupid. That make you happy?

 

[whitepunkonnitro]

No, I never said they are stupid. I understand and have used them in other applications countless times.
I said that they are an unnecessary complication in the vast amount of cases when it comes to these cars.
The old saying was that some people have too many fingers on their hands. Meaning, they know how to do something, and so they do it everywhere they can whether it is needed or not.
I see people doing things to these cars that boggle my imagination sometimes. Taking a machine who's essence lies in its simplicity and functionality and heaping all sorts of things on top just because it seems like the thing to do.
I'm not an automotive "prude" by any stretch of the imagination. But, a lifetime of screwing with these things has proven to me time and time again, that the simplest machine is nearly always the best machine.

 

[TrailBeast]

One thing I do that helps a lot and saves a lot of time is to make a folder on my computer for each specific vehicle I deal with.
Then everything I look up or download for that vehicle goes into it's specific folder (even internet shortcuts) if something is read only, I will use screen shots to save images that apply to what I am doing and/or copy and paste text and images to a word processing program and save those files in that car's folder.
Then when I'm done with that vehicle I burn all that info onto a CD and put it away, or send it with the car when it leaves.
That allows me to have any and all information available right away when I or the next owner of a car needs the resource.
When I add something to the car I draw up a wiring diagram for it and stash it in that folder.

There are a ton of excellent resources out there on the internet, but it does take a bit of experience to tell BS from good info.
In the cases of people who are not comfortable with the operations of computers and the Internet, books are the next best thing.

 

[Caliscamp72]

That doesn't make any sense. The keyed power source will trigger the relay, yes..but the pump still needs a power source and ground. You have not circumnavigated a potential problem, only added an extra circuit to it.
There is a bank on the fuse block that is protected by the fusable link, fed by the key, and intended to carry amp loads similar to what an electric fuel pump will draw.
Piggy back from that and all is well.

I'm sorry white but I really have to disagree ...ANY high current load like cooling fans , fuel pumps , etc. should always be isolated on a relay ... This way the battery is providing direct high current feed (or the alternator while running ) to that component . Otherwise you are ruunning all your high current consumers thru components not meant to deal with those loads ... Like the ign switch and main fuse block . Relay contacts are very very durable , switch contacts however have limitations ,and are prone to developing high resistance as compared to a quality relay.

Also did you say fuses are a waste of time ? I'll have to reread your post but certainly that would be the most irresponsible incorrect statement to put out there .

 

[Caliscamp72]

I'm sorry white but I really have to disagree ...ANY high current load like cooling fans , fuel pumps , etc. should always be isolated on a relay ... This way the battery is providing direct high current feed (or the alternator while running ) to that component . Otherwise you are ruunning all your high current consumers thru components not meant to deal with those loads ... Like the ign switch and main fuse block . Relay contacts are very very durable , switch contacts however have limitations ,and are prone to developing high resistance as compared to a quality relay.

Also did you say fuses are a waste of time ? I'll have to reread your post but certainly that would be the most irresponsible incorrect statement to put out there .

Do you really think the factory bean counters would waste so much money on relays and associated wiring if they were unnecessary ? Literally ALL vehicles 100 percent of them use relays for high current loads ... It's what is safe and efficient and simply logical bottom line . "
I'm new to this forum but I have been a professional automotive technician for 30 years ... I specialize in electronics , ....systems diag and repair and today's hybrid and networked vehicles ( Toyota factory master and Honda factory master tech ) I feel more than qualified to advise on such matters . A

Anyway I'm not trying to slam you . I just thought I should bring my experience and knowledge to the table .

 

[Caliscamp72]

Not sure if this kind of post is allowed, but here it goes. I have very very basic understanding when it comes to wiring and such. Ive wired a LED headlight to a go kart with a switch and a small battery, thats about it. Pretty soon i'll need to get my headlights, tailights, ignition, fuel pump, etc wired up and i have absolutely no idea what im doing. So if you guys have any tips or tricks for a beginner it would be greatly appreciated. I realize that i need to research elsewhere to figure it out completely but i thought this would be a good place to start. Thanks in advance

I would advise you to get ahold of a good reference and textbook and learn about basic electrical systems ... Even better take a community college class or have a professional run you thru the learning curve if you have one as a buddy.

Diagrams will mean nada to you if you don't understand the fundamentals ... And that will cause confusion , aggravation and could be unsafe as well .
The best book I can recommend is by Dan Sullivan (AES) ,it's called fundamental electrical troubleshooting and it will certainly get you on the right track quickly and is written in a super easy to read format .... If you have middle school reading comprehension skills this book is a breeze ... Anything more and it's a treasure trove of solid proven fact based info .

As a professional in the industry for thirty years that's my advice and good luck brother!!!

 

[Pawned]

I highly recomend that you spend the money and buy the best crimper you can find. The one at Harbor Freight is not very good. hand striper Cable Crimper Tool Wire connector Terminal Ratchet Plier Crimping | eBay I recently bought this one and it is fantastic.

I would also highly recommend eliminating the bulkhead connectors and putting in a connector box. Here is the one I made. It is more work to do this but when you try to troubleshoot your wiring, it is 1000 times easier than using the bulkhead connectors

 

[BillGrissom]

... I would also highly recommend eliminating the bulkhead connectors and putting in a connector box. ATTACH=full]1715029089[/ATTACH]

I agree. Most modern cars (i.e. 1990's on) don't have bulkhead connectors, but rather run the wire bundle(s) straight thru the firewall. I think they had to do this because there came to be too many terminals. Many today run them to connectors underneath the engine's relay/fuse box. I doubt any of that could be easily or affordably replaced as it can on our cars. My 84 M-B is in-between. They put the fuse box in the firewall, so it serves both that function and as a feedthru. Beside the screw-terminal box shown, look at industrial DIN wiring blocks such as from Wago and Weidmuller. Some are quite small and all are easy to re-arrange. A bit expensive list price, but amazing what you can find surplus on ebay.