Side cover leak

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b5cuda

b5cuda

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Hey manual trans gurus - I just did a quick rebuild on my 833 OD trans and reinstalled. Works great, except a leak from the side cover. I've not had this issue before on rebuilds, so I'm guessing I installed a regular paper sidecover gasket without sealant, thinking it was a Brewer's gasket that doesn't use sealant. I really don't want to pull the trans again to swap out the side cover gasket. Has anyone successfully replaced a side cover gasket, or just loosened enough to seal it, without pulling the trans?
 
I have removed and replaced forks, with the trans in the tunnels of a 70 swinger and of a 68 Barracuda. So I know removing the cover can be done. As can just removing the bolts, suspending the cover, and putting some sealer in. But
What sealer sticks to gear oil?
My record for pulling that A833 is 17 minutes, which includes dropping the exhaust, and the Gear Vender, and the shifter, all by myself, allbeit on a 4-post lift, and with air tools.
So my question is this;
are you 100% sure that the leak is coming from the side-cover. This would be highly unusual.
The most likely leakers are;
1) the NSS switch which often leaks right where the connector pins exit the bakelite
2) the O-ring around the reverse pin where it comes thru the case.
3) the vent at the top of the tail, if someone forgot to install the baffle.

But yes, the cover gasket can leak if it was cut during installation by one of the shouldered bolts. ALL of the bolts as far as I know, go into blind holes. AFAIK only the bottom 3 shoulderless bolts get lockwashers.
Two of the shouldered bolts have longer shoulders than the rest, and they go in special locations, namely in the deep holes of the case which, IIRC are the center locations of the verical runs at the front and the rear. These two align the cover when they go in. If you install them elsewhere, two things will happen;
1) those two will bottom on the case before they tighten the cover, which, I suppose, would allow the gasket to leak in those locations, and
2) the cover is free to wander in any direction, by the difference between the shoulder diameters and the holes in the cover. This ain't much but, it usually allows the reverse internal interlock to bind on the cover and it makes getting into reverse a *****, if it goes in at all.
So, I mean, before you tackle the very tough job of trying to seal the cover with the trans in the tunnel, I would be absolutely sure that the cover is, in fact, leaking.
BTW
If your trans has a cast-iron case, that thing is a beast, IIRC 135 pounds, dry.
The Alloy cased version weighs less than my wife did on our Wedding Day, which IIRC was 105 pounds. What I'm saying is this, if you can do a push-up, dropping the alloy-cased trans is nothing. If you can do 5 push-ups, getting it back in, is only slightly more difficult.
But if you, like me, cannot slide your um "huge chest" under the car anymore and still get the alloy-cased trans onto your svelte belly, well; call over the neighbors kid who is always bragging how strong he is. That should shut him up.
If you take the trans down, here's a tip, find two bolts that will thread into the BH at the bottom two locations. Cyr the heads off leavin one about 3/4 inch long and the other can be a lil longer. Chamfer the cut lines and hacksaw-cut a screwdriver slot across the ends. make sure you can get a screwdriver into the slots. Before you take the trans down, install these pins into the BH on the bottom two corners. Install the shorter one on the passenger side. Then when you slide the trans out, it will come straight back, safely extracting the input shaft from the clutch, without bending the disc. Install it the same way except make sure the trans is in direct gear, and have something handy to turn the output shaft, which will rotate the input shaft, which will help the input gear into the disc. I use a spare yoke.
How-ever you do it;
Happy HotRodding;
this too shall pass.
One day you will have forgotten all the crap you hadda go thru to get a lil joy outta the old girl.
 
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Thanks AJ, appreciate you taking the time to share your knowledge and experience. It's helpful! I'm pretty sure the leak is coming from side cover, the only place that's wet is the bottom edge of the cover. I suspect the gasket tore during installation, or was it was paper that needed sealant (vs. the Brewer's no-sealant gasket). Good to hear side cover can be pulled without dropping the trans, I've got nothing to lose by trying that first. Really rather not pull the trans again (sigh). It's an iron-case 833OD. I picked up a transmission jack last time I pulled it, made the job easier and safer since I don't have a vehicle lift. Good tip on on the guide bolts for the bell, though I'm hoping I don't need to go that far this time. I made sure I have the right gasket this time and will pay extra close attention to the placement of the bolts as you suggest. Much obliged!
 
Jus saying, not criticizing;
in the 50 plus years that I have been running A833s, I have never experienced a cover-gasket leak. Nor have I ever glued one on.
Won't say it can't happen tho.
However, I have NEVER had an NSS that didn't leak, sooner or later.
The cure for that, if you need to know; Is to take it down, thoroughly clean it out, both inside and out with brake-cleaner and compressed air, then epoxy the bakelite to the body, and to the pins, squeezing the epoxy into the crimp-joints as much as is possible.
RTV will not be long-term successful. The only thing that has worked for me, is JB Weld epoxy. Let it dry according to the instructions, usually 24 hours.
If you look at your NSS you will notice that the case has been milled to receive it. This leaves a little shelf right next to the body of the switch. If the switch is leaking, there will be oil in this "cavity" . From there it will wick downwards to the gasket-line and from there, forward along it, to the lowest point, and a little uphill again, making it look for all the world, that the gasket is leaking.
BUT, with the car stopped, over time, the oil below the cavity, will almost all drain to the lowest point and you may miss the very thin trail.
Your tell-tale, is seeing oil on the shelf under the NSS, from which it is uphill over the edge so it remains there. Tissue paper swiped across the case below the NSS will also find the evidence.

BTW, you can actually PROOVE exactly where the trans is leaking, by pressurizing it to in the range of 2 to 4 psi, thru a modified filler plug that has been drilled and tapped for a suitable hose-barb. To do this, I drain the oil out first, so that only air will exit the case, and
The vent on top of the tail, has to sort of be sealed.
Try very hard to not exceed 4psi, as IDK how much pressure the front seal can withstand, and you sure don't want that one to blow! I use my LD tester with the regulator turned way down.

If air seems to be escaping from in front of the front U-joint, then there is a chance that your yoke has a metal plate there like the one that is on the front of your od cluster-pin except larger. Sometimes, those have a tiny hole drilled in them, for what reason I cannot say. If I find that hole, I plug it, cuz Dextron will seep outta there and make a mess.

Again, I'm not criticizing, just ragging on the NSS, which has fooled me in the past.
 
Thanks AJ, I appreciate your input. I've rebuilt trans a couple of times in past 20 years but there is always more to learn. I'm still thinking it's the side cover because I saw it start leaking even as I was filling it. But I will certainly take a careful look at the backup light switch too.
 
AJ/FormS said:
Jus saying, not criticizing;
in the 50 plus years that I have been running A833s, I have never experienced a cover-gasket leak. Nor have I ever glued one on.
Won't say it can't happen tho.
However, I have NEVER had an NSS that didn't leak, sooner or later.
The cure for that, if you need to know; Is to take it down, thoroughly clean it out, both inside and out with brake-cleaner and compressed air, then epoxy the bakelite to the body, and to the pins, squeezing the epoxy into the crimp-joints as much as is possible.
RTV will not be long-term successful. The only thing that has worked for me, is JB Weld epoxy. Let it dry according to the instructions, usually 24 hours.
If you look at your NSS you will notice that the case has been milled to receive it. This leaves a little shelf right next to the body of the switch. If the switch is leaking, there will be oil in this "cavity" . From there it will wick downwards to the gasket-line and from there, forward along it, to the lowest point, and a little uphill again, making it look for all the world, that the gasket is leaking.
BUT, with the car stopped, over time, the oil below the cavity, will almost all drain to the lowest point and you may miss the very thin trail.
Your tell-tale, is seeing oil on the shelf under the NSS, from which it is uphill over the edge so it remains there. Tissue paper swiped across the case below the NSS will also find the evidence.

BTW, you can actually PROOVE exactly where the trans is leaking, by pressurizing it to in the range of 2 to 4 psi, thru a modified filler plug that has been drilled and tapped for a suitable hose-barb. To do this, I drain the oil out first, so that only air will exit the case, and
The vent on top of the tail, has to sort of be sealed.
Try very hard to not exceed 4psi, as IDK how much pressure the front seal can withstand, and you sure don't want that one to blow! I use my LD tester with the regulator turned way down.

If air seems to be escaping from in front of the front U-joint, then there is a chance that your yoke has a metal plate there like the one that is on the front of your od cluster-pin except larger. Sometimes, those have a tiny hole drilled in them, for what reason I cannot say. If I find that hole, I plug it, cuz Dextron will seep outta there and make a mess.

Again, I'm not criticizing, just ragging on the NSS, which has fooled me in the past.
Click to expand...
A NSS on an A833 manual transmssion??
Never heard about that one, or do U mean the reverse lite switch?
A reverse lite switch can leak if there is no ring gasket or is damaged..
I have seen a couple of reverse lite switch shorted and sometimes cracked if overtightened..

Just my $0.02...
 
Got a start on the job tonight after work. Pulling the side cover wasn't bad, putting it back on with forks properly positioned will be the real challenge. Found a problem right away, the gasket had shifted out of alignment at one spot when I tightened it down after the rebuild, so the bottom edge of the cover was not properly sealed.
 
I'm now officially part of the unistall-and-reinstall-sidecover-without-pulling-transmission club. Got it back on last night (no small test of patience), it's back together and there are no leaks! Thanks AJ for your guidance.
 
Next, when you wanna take it down, apart, and make it shift like a Ford top-loader; ie like lightning at 7200,
call me.
BTW
Passon sold me one of his alloy A833-type cases, and a matching side-cover. They work great, and with the alloy tail that I already had, made installing that now featherweight trans, real easy; even for an old guy.
I do not remember the weight-savings, but when yur laying on your back, the factory trans feels like a 727 ; whereas the all-alloy one feels about like a Saginaw 3-speed. I'm gonna guess close to 25/30 pounds.
 
Sounds good! I would be interested in your thoughts, when you get a chance. I'm running two cars with 833's (one OD, one regular) so it's probably just a matter of time before I need to go into one again.
 
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