Slant 6 Turbo 68Dart Project

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Nothing too special going on till I get my new turbo shell in the mail. I found one off a turbo diesel Merc that looks about the right size. It wasn't too expensive if it doesn't work out. I think 8psi is somehow the limit of this shell and I don't know why. But the other one will come, then I'll spec it, blast the intake housing and clean it up, and see what happens. Otherwise tomorrow the car gets a bath and the new Greddy BOV will be mounted. The vinyl mopar banner up top was made by the girlfriend here.
 
unhook the signal hose going to the wastgate and take it for a ride. watch the boost gauge. ive noticed with my setup that if you arent jumping huge psi the tune is pretty good for 5-6 extra psi. thats my setup so it might not be the same for you so just keep an eye on it. put the gear selector in 2 and floor it, keep it down (i know you dont want to but you might need to to get the extra boost out of it) through the rpm range. should pull to 4600-4800 with the stock cam.
 
I've been debating trying that for a while, but I'll be out on the road for a quick drive in a bout an hour... and I'll see how it goes with the wastegate disconnected. I can always let off and the BOV will relieve the pressure.
 
nada. wastegate completely off it still went to 8 psi. thats it no matter how hard i pushed... hit 240 degrees too. dont know why that happened.
 
hmm that is weird. it should go up or down. the temp raising is from the back pressure from the turbo. pretty normal with the smaller ones. my china one used to raise the temp a good bit if i kept getting on it. not so much with the holset.
 
the temp didnt return to normal either, even after letting off, that kind of thing hasnt happened in a while. Notreally excited to chase another temp issue. I know it sounds backwards but the only difference i saw was it spooled a lot slower...
 
the open hose would be a leak but you wouldnt lose more then a fraction of a psi in the grand scheme of things. i dont get why you cant get more out of it or that it doesnt drop off. might have a big leak somewhere.
 
What size exhaust are you running? Too much backpressure AFTER the turbo can limit boost pressure, no? Not knowing anything about you turbo is a little bit of a hindrance as well.
 
Well Brandon, once I find out some more info on the turbo I can let you know. I bought it in the blind, only knowing it is a t3/t4 turbo from China. The exhaust runs 2 1/4" from the manifold to the turbo, then leaves at 3" for about 2 feet, then it goes to 2 1/2" all the way out the back.

Chris, yes, I do believe there is a leak somehwere, and I know this because I see black exhaust black stuff all over the drain hose on the bottom of the turbo. I believe either my weld is porous and leaking or the gasket is - I used the metal gasket and I don't believe it seals very well. I'm still working through this. I kind of wish any one of you guys lived nearby so you could come over, drink a beer, and tell me what a dumbass I am while you pick out something super easy and obvious that I am just missing and help me fix it... :D

But I am dissasembling the piping soon, going to an exhaust shop and he's going to rebuild my downpipe for me and move the 02 sensor around, so it will look better and not have as sharp of a downward angle on it, because I have it exiting the turbo, making a 45* downward bend instantly, then another 45* bend to point it straight down, then a gradual swoop to the rest of the exhaust. I did the two 45s and he thinks it could be causing a restriction and he wants to make up something cool that goes out, then makes a gradual curve down to the rest of the exhaust. He's a much better welder and metal guy than I am and they build a lot of custom turbo setups so I think he's got a hold on it.

The turbo I found as a replacement for the inevitable failure of the China turbo is a Garrett T3 Turbo by Airesearch. It was for an OM617 W123 300 Mercedes turbo diesel. my understanding is the car made low HP - like 85 or something, and I would assume this turbo does all of its work at lower RPMS, which would be good for my driving style. I don't rev high, and the turbo doesn't start making boost till 2500rpm or so. I'd like it better if it kicked in around 2000.
 
Yeah, downpipe (and exhaust in general) restrictions are one way they used to limit boost on old OE turbo setups.

Also, hate to sound like a broken record, but reading maps is SO important! Like, sizing the turbo is the most vital part of a build! Since you know what your 'new' one came off of, a map should be a little easier to find. Digging is in order!

Also, a little help: http://www.lovehorsepower.com/jooml...alculator&catid=8:mr2-helpful-stuff&Itemid=49

What you'd want is 3.7, 70%, 10, 4000, and 500.
This here is step 2: http://www.lovehorsepower.com/joomla/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=4&Itemid=48
The whole site is really purdy neat.

Second: That's crazy that it had no specs. And please take no offense to this at all, but I wish you would have asked someone. While I personally don't approve of eBay forced induction parts that move, most of them that I have stumbled across have specs of sorts (never a map, but still measurements) Have a page still of the auction? Maybe you missed something?

The downpipe may show some improvement. If your downpipe is 3-2.5 though, I'm pretty sure you can rule that out as so much of a restriction that you can't build boost. In fact, that's probably more than enough for what you want.
 
The reason why I don't have any specs of it is because it was bought 2nd hand brnad new. The p.o. of the turbo bought it off ebay, and then sold it to me unused within a set of turbo parts. Check page 1 or 2 of this thread, you'll see I bought it from a member. I've looked on ebay and there are about 20 different companies that sell a T3/T4 turbo that looks just like this one so I have no idea what it is. Some of them have info, and the info is all different. The turbo functions, but I have been wanting to get rid of it just because I know nothing about it, and they seem to have a major list of failures. Rusty's froze up not long ago.

I'll look this new one up and read, see if the map is similar to what you're mentioning.

No offense taken - I don't ever claim to know what I'm doing.
 
I think I made a spark plug mistake, I purchased NGK BP4s, and have been running those based on the fact that most say a NGK BP5 is for a regular engine and works. I see now that the lower the number, the hotter it is - oh boy. I figured one number less meant colder...

So I think I'm going to go to a BP-7Es does this seem right? 2 steps colder than a normal plug?

Also, I'm currently running a "points" distributor that has been converted with Pertronix to an electronic one, and then modified myself for boost applications. Would I be able to piggy back H.E.I. to this or would it be better to just stick to the MSD option?

I ask because a lot of pages online won't really point a direct answer, just to use pertronix OR hei, but they're talking about the full distributor.

I'd like to use the HEI because the '74 dart we just got has the conversion to HEI done already, and the difference is definitly noticable. That car takes minimal time to start and runs real nice.

I got the old ECU box out of it that was not being used, and am going to cut out the electronics and hide an HEI module in there against a heat sink. I think this would look pretty trick, then use a hobbs switch to utilize the 5 degree retard function on it when boost is at 5psi. Someone wrote an article on doing this in Slantsix.org and now I want to do it, except possibly contain the hobbs switch in the unit too, so that a vacuum hose will just go to the "ECU" .

I got a little research in on the Garrett turbo that should come in the mail any day now...

There's a remanufactured unit on a site called xsboosturbochargers that list the Merc turbo as being Garrett part number: 465228

They're rated to 250 HP. I still have not found a compressor map, just a lot of stories on how good a turbo it is, and that it makes power in the low RPM and cuts off about 6k. The other info I've collected is that the wastegate is internally set for 7psi, but people have run them to 24 on other motors. They vary from small Hondas, to Ford pickups, etc... I'll find something eventually. Compressor housing looks like .42 and turbine is .48.
 
Oh... apparently I switched to autolites... oh yeah I did that when I wanted to regap the ngks and broke one of the tips... and all the auto store had was autolites, well, they were working and cheap - so I got some more... except two steps colder than whatever was in there. Designed in the USA, made in Mexico - pretty much the story with anything.

Anyways, pulled the other plugs and apparently leaving the washer off was a bad thing, because there was oil all over the outside of the plug sitting in the drool tube on every single plug. No oil in the firing range though, which I was worried about initially - going oh god my rings are gone... but no - it's outside, and the plug was not making a seal against the tube without a washer. I put it on, and it looks good to go on the new plugs.



You can see the oil drooled all over the white part of the plugs and the tightening nut.

Out with the 66's, and in with the 63's. That's 3 steps colder than one step too hot. lol.

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Now, playing around with this ignition box - anyone know how to get this silicone/rubber/plastic junk out? I tried a heat gun, it made it sticky but still just as hard to take out. I want everything out of the box basically.

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Serj22 said:
Anyways, pulled the other plugs and apparently leaving the washer off was a bad thing, because there was oil all over the outside of the plug sitting in the drool tube on every single plug. No oil in the firing range though, which I was worried about initially - going oh god my rings are gone... but no - it's outside, and the plug was not making a seal against the tube without a washer. I put it on, and it looks good to go on the new plugs.
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I don't know where I read it, but I have read it several places, that if you have a drool-tube head, the drool-tube is there,partially, to act as the plug washer... and no other washer is supposed to be needed; the theory being, that the heat-exchange between the head and the plug will be impaired, and the plug will run hotter, if two gaskets are used, and that is, effectively,what you are doing with the use of both the gasket AND the drool-tube.

Take that for what it's worth; you might want to research it on your own...

Additionally, I have also read that turbochargers and extended-tip spark plugs are not a good "mix" because the extended tip, living in an environment of fire, as it does when the engine is under boost, will glow cherry red and can cause detonation (due to pre-ignition,) the ideal configuration being a tip that extends no farther into the combustion chamber than the surrounding ring of the plug body. In other words, a conventional, old-style plug. There are plugs designed specifically for racing,which have an electrode that is level with the "top" of the plug body, horizontally configured) that are specific for forced induction applications, but they are not stocked by anyone other than speed shops and online sources. They are the best, for engines like ours. NGK makes them.

Food for thought...
 
I also read that the drool tube heads needed no washers, but as far as sealing goes, this didn't seem to be the case. The plugs I pulled out before these had washers, and sealed just fine. I couldn't get the washers off them and decided - well lets try it anyway. No oil drips or nothing- I was pretty happy with it, but that was pre-turbo.

I'd think if anything the washer backs it out and makes it stick into the chamber less, no?
 
could try paint stripper. auto zone and o'rilies carry it as aircraft stripper or something like that and i dont mean thinner of any kind.
 
buckshotbishop said:
could try paint stripper. auto zone and o'rilies carry it as aircraft stripper or something like that and i dont mean thinner of any kind.
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I've got some jabsco in a gallon at my shop. I'll take it there and just pour some on and see what happens. If it ignites in flames, I can deal with it easier there. lol. That's a good idea. I'm going to try it out.

Well, I removed the T-stat to see if it was messed up with all these random overheats that keep occuring, ( and I mean random, no particular thing sets it off) and I always replace the T-stat anyway since it's cheap. I'm glad I popped the housing apart because I discovered a curiosity.

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I'm very sure that I put a stud here and bolted it... sure enough a flashlight verifies that some of the stud is still in there and the rest broke off. In two years this has not occurred - guess it was tightened down too much or something. It was a brand new stud.

Well now I get to extract that and put a new one in - no big deal I hope - as it shouldn't be rusted in a year... I hope.

I also finally put on the new Blow-off-valve in. It was sitting in a box for a while neglected, even though it's just a 2 bolt operation. It took about 5 minutes...

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Eventually i'll have time to mask up all the wiring in the back and finish painting the engine bay, but not today... I started the car and ran it for a bit. I always check after I do anything just to make sure it's going to start the next time i need. Have not driven it yet- that will wait till tomorrow.
 
Serj22 said:
I also read that the drool tube heads needed no washers, but as far as sealing goes, this didn't seem to be the case. The plugs I pulled out before these had washers, and sealed just fine. I couldn't get the washers off them and decided - well lets try it anyway. No oil drips or nothing- I was pretty happy with it, but that was pre-turbo.

I'd think if anything the washer backs it out and makes it stick into the chamber less, no?
Click to expand...

I don't think it's a matter of whether they will seal, but the heat transfer is critical from the plug to the head, and with washers AND a drool tube , the heat transfer will be less, making the plug actually run hotter, I would think... not a good situation, particularly, on a boosted engine.

Leaking oil around the base of the plug is another issue; has to be dealt with, too... one way or another.:banghead:
 
Well, Happy and sad today. Happy because my Garrett came in the mail, sad because it's going to require a bit of cleaning. There is minimal side-to-side play but no in/out. I made a video of what i think is play, I can't remember if my other turbo was like this as well. I think it was. I saw a video online of what's considered bad play, and that one was moving very visibly. This one I had to take a close up. Needless to say the description on ebay said no shaft play whatsoever, and I paid $160 for it. Thinking if it is usable, then whatever, but if it's not then I think I should probably ask for some of my money back, minus the cost off the top of whatever makes it usable. That's my thinking. Only reason I care is because the ad clearly stated "No shaft play whatsoever. Mechanically Tight"

The other reason I'm a little bummed is the car is still heating up. I pulled the thermostat and found no issue in a pot of hot water it opened, replaced it anyway, since it was out of the car already.

Here's what's going on - it's a time game. You get to drive for about 2 minutes, at any pace/speed, etc... then the temp gauge hits 180 and stays there, for about 1 minute, then the temp gauge slowly rises till you turn the car off. Speed does not affect the rate it raises. This is limiting my trips to about 2 miles. One thing i am finding is that if I shut the car down between 190-200, the radiator is puking. I don't think it should start ditching coolant at 190?

I left the car run this morning when I got to work, got out, went under the hood, and pulled on the throttle to see what was happening - I was looking for belt slip. The fan spun faster when the car accelerated and that seemed to be fine. What I DID see, was that coolant was dripping from the base of the radiator cap, just running out - so I think the cap is not holding pressure, so I'm having the fiancee pick me up one on her way back from San Francisco. The car is retired to the driveway till i can figure this out.

My other thought is that the water pump vanes have become detached from the shaft and are just sitting in there not spinning.

The cap is too cheap not to replace, but I'm really banking on the water pump. But I still have no idea why the radiator is getting rid of fluid at that low a temp. It has to be allowing air in somewhere to boil like that.

Anyway, if anyone has any thoughts, that would be great.

But back to the turbo.

Most of the videos I see on shaft play are just awful. This one i have does not seem nearly as bad - is it normal, or no? This video is mine, of the turbo in question that just came:
[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HD6p80UfGhg"]YouTube[/ame]

Also my HEI setup came. UGH! So much to do, but the car is acting up. I have bought her so many presents lately and she's still acting up. lol.

I hope it is usable, as it looks to be in good shape otherwise.





ANd the HEI and heatsink came, now i got to get down to taking that ecu apart.

 
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