Small block TrickFlow heads part 1

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ou812 said:
I was really happy with our RHS and EQ heads that we sold...they made power, they last, you could bolt them on and go, and were priced well. But those are no more so...the TF head is a great head, and what I would run if given the choice between them and the iron heads most times...I think the iron head was a great performance head for the money, so less money for possibly less power was good for a lot of people...I bet I sold 400+ of those heads!
Click to expand...

I have a set your CNC RHS heads and they definitely work well.

Just for comparison sake, here is a table of the RHS and TF published flow numbers using slightly different tests;

RHS/Indy X heads IMM Engines CNC
Lift Intake Exhaust
.100 68 58
.200 142 119
.300 201 161
.400 249 184
.500 281 193
.550 290 195
.600 296
.650 293
.700 294

Test @ 28" on a 4.030 bore,
exhaust with 1 ¾” pipe


Trick Flow Power Port 190
Lift Intake Exhaust
.100" 66 54
.200" 134 121
.300" 200 181
.400" 248 213
.500" 281 231
.600" 293 237
.700" 301 240

Test @ 28" on a 4.000" bore;
exhaust with 1 7/8" pipe.

Sorry everything is jumbled together, the editor won't allow formatting with tabs for some reason. Tried to fix it, this is the best it'll do.
 
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pittsburghracer said:
thanks for chiming in. I was hoping you would.
Click to expand...

46094"]thanks for chiming in. I was hoping you would.[/QUOTE]

Thinking about it, I would love to put a typical 525HP (using the TF heads) 408 on the dyno, fine tune it, remove the heads, and then play with them until happy with them, then bolt them back on and dyno again. Only way for me, to be sure the gains are real. Not saying you can't make them better without dyno testing, but I feel that would more than validate the work. I've had heads that flowed better than my stuff on my bench, but did NOT make more power than my stuff.
I'm interested in how this progresses. Question, I see your testing with a pitot, can you also get swirl info? Just curious...
 
rmchrgr said:
I have a set your CNC RHS heads and they definitely work well.

Just for comparison sake, here is a table of the RHS and TF published flow numbers using slightly different tests;

RHS/Indy X heads IMM Engines CNC
Lift Intake Exhaust
.100 68 58
.200 142 119
.300 201 161
.400 249 184
.500 281 193
.550 290 195
.600 296
.650 293
.700 294

Test @ 28" on a 4.030 bore,
exhaust with 1 ¾” pipe


Trick Flow Power Port 190
Lift Intake Exhaust
.100" 66 54
.200" 134 121
.300" 200 181
.400" 248 213
.500" 281 231
.600" 293 237
.700" 301 240

Test @ 28" on a 4.000" bore;
exhaust with 1 7/8" pipe.

Sorry everything is jumbled together, the editor won't allow formatting with tabs for some reason. Tried to fix it, this is the best it'll do.
Click to expand...

Also interesting, is the fact that BOTH heads have a fairly small pinch area...
 
I have used the BB TF heads. Yes, not cheap but looked well made & worth the money. Some springs reqd varying shim thicknesses to get each of the installed heights equal. That is how they came, another indicator of manual involvement & checking. Both heads were a PERFECT fit on the cyl block dowels, indicating great QC. Many other brands I have used are not a perfect fit on the dowels...which makes you wonder how accurate the rest of the machining is...
 
ou812 said:
46094"]thanks for chiming in. I was hoping you would.
Click to expand...

Thinking about it, I would love to put a typical 525HP (using the TF heads) 408 on the dyno, fine tune it, remove the heads, and then play with them until happy with them, then bolt them back on and dyno again. Only way for me, to be sure the gains are real. Not saying you can't make them better without dyno testing, but I feel that would more than validate the work. I've had heads that flowed better than my stuff on my bench, but did NOT make more power than my stuff.
I'm interested in how this progresses. Question, I see your testing with a pitot, can you also get swirl info? Just curious...[/QUOTE]


No I never got into checking swirl. I don’t think I could apply what I saw anyway.
 
ou812 said:
Also interesting, is the fact that BOTH heads have a fairly small pinch area...
Click to expand...


Hopefully today I can get one one my bench and do some testing. I’m sure my sonic checker will get some use to see how much meat is available for removal. These heads have real nice hardened valve spring shims and before the reception yesterday I tried to remove a valve seal to measure them but man those seals are on tight. I ordered the proper tool to remove them and it should be here Monday
 
About that pinch, I learned it doesn't matter in the way most, the reader, think it does.
You can remove pinch material and actually hurt it.
 
rumblefish360 said:
Just sayin… pick your parts…
Pick your poison…

ProMaxx CNC $1,762.00 & 2,232 per PAIR
Click on link for details;
Shocker 185 Mopar CNC (Sold in Pairs) - PROMAXX Performance Products
TF from $1065 - $1240 each
Trick Flow® PowerPort® 190 Cylinder Heads for Small Block Mopar TFS-61417801-C00
Click to expand...
I’m holding out on which is a better head until I see some numbers out of the trick flows vs Promaxx on the same bench…some back to back dyno testing would be nice
 
67autocross said:
I’m holding out on which is a better head until I see some numbers out of the trick flows vs Promaxx on the same bench…some back to back dyno testing would be nice
Click to expand...

I am very confident the new Bloomer head will be faster at the track, by a good bit, than either of those two heads
 
At least Trickflows release wasn't a crash and burn like bloomer. Hope his brother fixes that abomination of a head.

Enough bs'n about other heads and uncle phonie. This is a trickflow thread.
 
B3422w5 said:
I am very confident the new Bloomer head will be faster at the track, by a good bit, than either of those two heads
Click to expand...
Can I actually buy a Bloomer head today? …or tomorrow if he is not opened Sunday
 
MOPAROFFICIAL said:
At least Trickflows release wasn't a crash and burn like bloomer. Hope his brother fixes that abomination of a head.

Enough bs'n about other heads and uncle phonie. This is a trickflow thread.
Click to expand...
Head/ports fixed from what I read.

I think you really can’t discuss one head without the others being brought up. My post above with the links is just a comparative note. 67autocross is having his PM heads flow tested.

For many here & even more so that most will not themselves port a head, the flow rates vs dollar spent is where it is at for them. Also, even though it has been said a hundred times a year that you just can not bolt on a big port flowing 300 and expect miracles still wonder what to do and how it can be done better. A plus without a big expense.

It’s also hard to get a low-ish duration cam with a lot of lift to take advantage of the high flowing head. (Enter in 1.6 rockers) While it is not completely necessary to do so and you can run quick without the extra lift, I find it pointless to get such heads and not lift the valve up high. A well done valve job and bowl porting can take you pretty far and fast if the rest of the car is up to the task. Most here have a heavy car and dream of big speeds and low ET’s.

IMO, the 2 heads above represent the best bang for the buck heads readily available for the small block Chrysler right now. 1 just a bit better for a price. Or the price.
 
67autocross said:
I’m holding out on which is a better head until I see some numbers out of the trick flows vs Promaxx on the same bench…some back to back dyno testing would be nice
Click to expand...
I’m not! LOL! I think the TF’s will surpass the PM’s.
I have both heads.
The PM’s are nice and even better so for there price. If more power and cam lift are desired, the TF head is it for a readily available head today. How well or much one takes advantage of the head is another story.

I have not seen, read, or heard of anyone maxing out (or really putting the screws to them) on a set of ether.
 
rumblefish360 said:
I’m not! LOL! I think the TF’s will surpass the PM’s.
I have both heads.
The PM’s are nice and even better so for there price. If more power and cam lift are desired, the TF head is it for a readily available head today. How well or much one takes advantage of the head is another story.

I have not seen, read, or heard of anyone maxing out (or really putting the screws to them) on a set of ether.
Click to expand...
If you have both heads get them flowed on the same bench and post up the results for us….
 
rumblefish360 said:
Head/ports fixed from what I read.

I think you really can’t discuss one head without the others being brought up. My post above with the links is just a comparative note. 67autocross is having his PM heads flow tested.

For many here & even more so that most will not themselves port a head, the flow rates vs dollar spent is where it is at for them. Also, even though it has been said a hundred times a year that you just can not bolt on a big port flowing 300 and expect miracles still wonder what to do and how it can be done better. A plus without a big expense.

It’s also hard to get a low-ish duration cam with a lot of lift to take advantage of the high flowing head. (Enter in 1.6 rockers) While it is not completely necessary to do so and you can run quick without the extra lift, I find it pointless to get such heads and not lift the valve up high. A well done valve job and bowl porting can take you pretty far and fast if the rest of the car is up to the task. Most here have a heavy car and dream of big speeds and low ET’s.

IMO, the 2 heads above represent the best bang for the buck heads readily available for the small block Chrysler right now. 1 just a bit better for a price. Or the price.
Click to expand...
I hear ya.
For me... this is the thread AFTER the initial inspection and weighing in of other heads. Like a quick run through with ootb pics and then ideas of where to go for improving them. He has yet to start any work on them and it would be a shame if like the other thread of his with seedblasters... that it ends up 4 pages of excellent walk through tech..BUT.. that you have to fish through 12 pages of other heads, head porters, bench differences, what ifs, when so n so...etc..to get to it.
Ideas are excellent, dont get me wrong. I just dont want to hear about other heads that aren't even the same animal in a way.imo lends nothing.
What's important..
Hes doing a baseline and providing steps and results with the head he has..the trickflow 190 sbm. So in reality..the end result can wait to be preferencly scrutinized or compared to the other heads at that point, if so. It's too early to know and way too easy to cloud it up if you start in with too much branching off. This head is unique to mopars in the ootb port volume and then the guide fin alone ootb. Chevys, ford, trick flow in general have had that around for many years and now you see it in one of our own versions. Consider the head bolt area and lack of typical crude bolt buldges... do you consider the union of those 2 features? There could be more than numbers... there could be flow gained and power lost, depending on the way the fuel and air mingles or doesn't, again depending..

Jmo. Yours may vary and that's no issue.
 
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Thanks MP. Much appreciated.


67autocross said:
If you have both heads get them flowed on the same bench and post up the results for us….
Click to expand...

Both heads in use currently. No testing will be done between them. Unless there is a very substantial lotto winning.
 
Both heads in use currently. No testing will be done between them. Unless there is a very substantial lotto winning.[/QUOTE]

Okay…. I will keep an eye out for some trick flows and see if I can get them tested here… I will post the full results of the PM heads in small block head flow thread sometime next week
 
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