Small block TrickFlow heads part 1

[12many]

I'm glad to hear these heads are that good OOTB. My set is in the machine shop, awaiting a quality crank. I'm waiting for the TF intake, no delivery date. I'm talking to different cam makers for a cam to take advantage of the flow these heads make. Then I'll make a decision on the TC and rear gears for my 1970 Swinger 340. I truly appreciate all the knowledge I've acquired from the members on this site. Mopar or no car! Paul.

Yes they are that good OOTB. The set I have are up and running on my 410 stroker. Lash settings remain stable, I’ve got ample oil being delivered to both rocker assemblies, no head related issues or shortcomings seen to date. Pulling them out of the box and looking over the beautiful quality CNC work done there was no way in hell after paying next to $2000 for said quality that I was taking a grinder to them! Not that I’d know where to begin or have a way of verifying anything in the first place, or need the possible extra gains. And I sure as hell wasn’t going to fork out wads of cash to have someone trial and error things searching for more. I know I’m not in the minority regarding who’s buying these heads.
In general, There’s the street, street/strip guys and then the racers, hardcore racers. This is hardcore racer level stuff. BUT of interest to either nonetheless.
TF really needs to release a set of bare non-CNC heads for the many that are at this “level” of engine performance and competitiveness. But being this is all there is you work with what ya got. Interested in findings and results here as well.
Living vicariously in my case!

 

[pittsburghracer]

Yes they are that good OOTB. The set I have are up and running on my 410 stroker. Lash settings remain stable, I’ve got ample oil being delivered to both rocker assemblies, no head related issues or shortcomings seen to date. Pulling them out of the box and looking over the beautiful quality CNC work done there was no way in hell after paying next to $2000 for said quality that I was taking a grinder to them! Not that I’d know where to begin or have a way of verifying anything in the first place, or need the possible extra gains. And I sure as hell wasn’t going to fork out wads of cash to have someone trial and error things searching for more. I know I’m not in the minority regarding who’s buying these heads.
In general, There’s the street, street/strip guys and then the racers, hardcore racers. This is hardcore racer level stuff. BUT of interest to either nonetheless.
TF really needs to release a set of bare non-CNC heads for the many that are at this “level” of engine performance and competitiveness. But being this is all there is you work with what ya got. Interested in findings and results here as well.
Living vicariously in my case!

I’ll disagree on the part where you say this is a hardcore racer level stuff. This head was developed for the street, street strip guys. I started talking to the TrickFlow guys before the 240 big block head was released and after telling one guy at their display tent that we need a good flowing small block Mopar head asked if his buddy’s could join us. The five of us bs’ed for well over an hour as he agreed about the small block head. Meanwhile the big block head was already secretly being developed (240cc) . I was told about the 270 head before it came out but again secretly wouldn’t tell me anything about it. Then word of this head came out but it was like I said aimed for the guys getting Edelbrock heads and porting them. A race head is supposed to be in the works but then casting issues and coronavirus hit us. What pisses me off is The guys at Harland Sharp are trying to talk them into a non offset rocker. Piss on that!!!! Give us racers a “race head” with an offset rocker and 240cc port minimum. Hopefully more minus the leaks that the 245cc Indy head is known for.

 

[rmchrgr]

I will have a head start and just have to update this one to titanium retainers.

So yeah, about that... the assembled titanium retainer version sells for $100 more, at least on Hughes site. Been mulling this factoid over and wondering if titanium retainers are a worthwhile cost?

I believe there may be some “comparable lightweight” steel retainers out there ($$$) but that’s just conjecture on my part, I have not researched that subject. Besides, if you are willing to spend more money on steel retainers, why not just get the titanium?

To be honest, I don’t know what retainer comes on the TF heads and how they compare to anything else.

I read a few posts on Moparts about the bottom of the Ti retainers getting galled by the edges of flat dual-spring dampeners. Seems like a race-only choice which probably eliminates consideration of at least 75% of current Trick Flow 190 buyers. This would likely be more true if you have a 4” stroke short block which generally top out around 6,500 rpm. Some go higher for sure but as an example my 416” is done at 6,200-6,300.

Just throwing that out there because it is a variable when purchasing these bad boys. Don’t mean to get too sidetracked about retainer material.

Please carry on.

 

[rumblefish360]

But it is a good question and since you were wondering, stating it was a good thing.

 

[pittsburghracer]

So yeah, about that... the assembled titanium retainer version sells for $100 more, at least on Hughes site. Been mulling this factoid over and wondering if titanium retainers are a worthwhile cost?

I believe there may be some “comparable lightweight” steel retainers out there ($$$) but that’s just conjecture on my part, I have not researched that subject. Besides, if you are willing to spend more money on steel retainers, why not just get the titanium?

To be honest, I don’t know what retainer comes on the TF heads and how they compare to anything else.

I read a few posts on Moparts about the bottom of the Ti retainers getting galled by the edges of flat dual-spring dampeners. Seems like a race-only choice which probably eliminates consideration of at least 75% of current Trick Flow 190 buyers. This would likely be more true if you have a 4” stroke short block which generally top out around 6,500 rpm. Some go higher for sure but as an example my 416” is done at 6,200-6,300.

Just throwing that out there because it is a variable when purchasing these bad boys. Don’t mean to get too sidetracked about retainer material.

Please carry on.

I’m not sure if there is a question here or not if so simply it if possible and I’ll try to address it.

 

[12many]

I’ll disagree on the part where you say this is a hardcore racer level stuff. This head was developed for the street, street strip guys. I started talking to the TrickFlow guys before the 240 big block head was released and after telling one guy at their display tent that we need a good flowing small block Mopar head asked if his buddy’s could join us. The five of us bs’ed for well over an hour as he agreed about the small block head. Meanwhile the big block head was already secretly being developed (240cc) . I was told about the 270 head before it came out but again secretly wouldn’t tell me anything about it. Then word of this head came out but it was like I said aimed for the guys getting Edelbrock heads and porting them. A race head is supposed to be in the works but then casting issues and coronavirus hit us. What pisses me off is The guys at Harland Sharp are trying to talk them into a non offset rocker. Piss on that!!!! Give us racers a “race head” with an offset rocker and 240cc port minimum. Hopefully more minus the leaks that the 245cc Indy head is known for.

Just my perspective as a “street/strip” guy with various limitations. What you are doing is “hardcore racer” level stuff. You are a hardcore racer. Not a negative or a slight. You have no inhibitions or hang ups when it comes to violating a head, regardless of cost or quality.

 

[rmchrgr]

I’m not sure if there is a question here or not if so simply it if possible and I’ll try to address it.

Sorry if it was vague, coffee had not kicked in yet. No real question, was merely pointing out the heads come with valvetrain options some might not be aware of.

Again, I believe most reading this would not be in the titanium retainer category.

 

[B3422w5]

Yes they are that good OOTB. The set I have are up and running on my 410 stroker. Lash settings remain stable, I’ve got ample oil being delivered to both rocker assemblies, no head related issues or shortcomings seen to date. Pulling them out of the box and looking over the beautiful quality CNC work done there was no way in hell after paying next to $2000 for said quality that I was taking a grinder to them! Not that I’d know where to begin or have a way of verifying anything in the first place, or need the possible extra gains. And I sure as hell wasn’t going to fork out wads of cash to have someone trial and error things searching for more. I know I’m not in the minority regarding who’s buying these heads.
In general, There’s the street, street/strip guys and then the racers, hardcore racers. This is hardcore racer level stuff. BUT of interest to either nonetheless.
TF really needs to release a set of bare non-CNC heads for the many that are at this “level” of engine performance and competitiveness. But being this is all there is you work with what ya got. Interested in findings and results here as well.
Living vicariously in my case!

frankly, i have yet to have heard of a trick flow small block motor that has had performance that “ wow’s me”
That said, there may, and likely are, many builds i am unaware of.
To me, they appear to work about as well as a moderately rubbed on eddie head, not bad, to be sure, but i think they will end up in 3rd place among offerings i know of. The new Bloomer head, the hard to find Airwolf head, then the Trickflow.

 

[pittsburghracer]

Sorry if it was vague, coffee had not kicked in yet. No real question, was merely pointing out the heads come with valvetrain options some might not be aware of.

Again, I believe most reading this would not be in the titanium retainer category.

I may try to call next week to talk to someone before I start numbering the ports permanently and taking a grinder to them. For what the salesman from summit was saying it sounded like they were going to narrow their part numbers and do away with the moly retainers on the bigger spring .690 spring package. Personally I think it would be a smart move because IF and I said IF a moly retainer would fail on a set of heads with a big spring higher pressure application who is going to look like the bad guy.

 

[justinp61]

frankly, i have yet to have heard of a trick flow small block motor that has had performance that “ wow’s me”
That said, there may, and likely are, many builds i am unaware of.
To me, they appear to work about as well as a moderately rubbed on eddie head, not bad, to be sure, but i think they will end up in 3rd place among offerings i know of. The new Bloomer head, the hard to find Airwolf head, then the Trickflow.

I'm in the same boat with Don. I talked with a guy at my local track that had a set on a 420ish inch small block in an A body. It looked to be back halved, full cage with no inner fenders, single seat, a typical bracket car. IIRC it ran high 6.40's. My junk Edelbrocks on a 10.8-1 408, 727, 4.10's ran 6.57 on pump 93 at 3260#.

There are probably are some out there that run hard, but if they are not many people are talking about them.

 

[70aarcuda]

Well...If I could get a set of narrowed main bearing for the 4 inch crank...and a flat tappet cam....waiting on parts.

 

[12many]

frankly, i have yet to have heard of a trick flow small block motor that has had performance that “ wow’s me”
That said, there may, and likely are, many builds i am unaware of.
To me, they appear to work about as well as a moderately rubbed on eddie head, not bad, to be sure, but i think they will end up in 3rd place among offerings i know of. The new Bloomer head, the hard to find Airwolf head, then the Trickflow.

Well I’m not running my van anywhere near what you and a handful here run, nor do I have anywhere near the experience. When I say they’re “that good” that is as a street/strip non-competitor. ($$$) perspective. By “that good” I’m referring to the quality of the assembly and parts used, the stated flow numbers. Everything that has been discussed, including what you get for the money here since they came out still holds up. I’m as interested as anyone else to see what PBR can get out of them. Ain’t seen anybody else willing to do that so there is that!

 

[PRH]

I don’t know what else someone could buy for less than $2500/pr, complete...... shipped to your door...... that come fully cnc ported, have all quality hardware, including 1.560 springs with a 2” installed height & Titanium retainers that will accommodate a .700” lift roller cam.
And they’re American made to boot.

They aren’t marketed as the “be all, end all” SBM racing head.
They’re high performance replacement heads.
They’re a high quality item, both in parts/materials, including overall fit and finish...... being sold for a very fair price.

They don’t need to be any better of a head than an RPM head, because an RPM prepped to compete with the TF head(parts and labor)........ will be more expensive than the TF head.

Ede RPM heads are now $1763/pr.
No porting, with a single spring for hyd cams.

The roller springs and titanium retainers alone will eat up $500+ of the $717 price difference.

 

[Lowcar]

this is a good example of how far off the first story can get when it is repeated. i too have a set of the 190's and no where has trickflow claimed it to be a race head in fact it is stated street ported

 

[justinp61]

I've never questioned the quality or even the value. What I've questioned is all the hype that came with them. But just like the Edelbrocks, which aren't marketed as a "race head" or even a street/strip head either, people will run them on "race" or street/strip engines. There have been several engines that ran hard with ported Edelbrocks. Trickflows, not so much.

As far as bang for the buck would the bare Speedmasters bought on sale be a better bargain? Have them ported, good valves, springs and retainers. How much would a guy have in a set?

 

[12many]

I've never questioned the quality or even the value. What I've questioned is all the hype that came with them. But just like the Edelbrocks, which aren't marketed as a "race head" or even a street/strip head either, people will run them on "race" or street/strip engines. There have been several engines that ran hard with ported Edelbrocks. Trickflows, not so much.

As far as bang for the buck would the bare Speedmasters bought on sale be a better bargain? Have them ported, good valves, springs and retainers. How much would a guy have in a set?

Anyone who bought the heads knows they are of quality and value after they pull them from the boxes and when all things are considered. Where did the hype come from? The numbers TF stated were seen by many who’ve flowed them. OK. As to actual power or potential? All I’ve ever read here is of guys who race, or port and flow and the scant few who took their setup to the track and were for the most part underwhelmed. And the analysis is that they are using small cams or their package is not optimized. I’ve not read a single post anywhere from anyone other than racers, or those who did dyno runs. The hype never came from street or s/s guys. Least not here. It’s the racers with expectations let down by feedback by those with setups that are not ideal....am I way off or? I don’t believe so.

 

[70aarcuda]

Here is my Speedmaster heads ported cost.,,,bought back 2019 black friday sale

Bare heads $438 for pair
PAC 1903 springs $100
retainers $25
keepers $12.00
Ferrea valves 2.05 intakes $115
Ferrea valves 1.60 exhaust $115
Port heads, valve job & assemble heads $1250.00

Total $2055 plus travel to Indio, CA. back n forth twice....buying Crackedback lunch twice....
The Trick Flow price looks pretty good...cause I can get the Pro Shop discount on them...
I also did a lot of searching to get the best price on the valves...springs and so on...
But i am still sitting on a few sets of bareheads still...

 

[Lowcar]

has far as i can tell the hype has been from the keyboard trolls like i said summit sells them as a cnc street ported head. so why ootb would you expect a race head?

 

[PRH]

It’ll be interesting to see how PBR makes out with it.

 

[PRH]

Bare heads $438 for pair
PAC 1903 springs $100
retainers $25
keepers $12.00
Ferrea valves 2.05 intakes $115
Ferrea valves 1.60 exhaust $115
Port heads, valve job & assemble heads $1250.00

Not that everyone is buying them this way, but the roller spring/ti retainer package TF190 heads are $2480.
The springs and retainers that come on those heads are almost $600.

 

[Brian Hafliger]

One thing to keep in mind about these heads, if you build a mild engine, you'll get mild #'s...if you build it hot, you'll get hot #'s. It does work good, if you build the engine to match. It's not a fully ported W5 head, but the value in this head is truly great.

 

[fishmens67]

It's made

 

[rmchrgr]

One thing to keep in mind about these heads, if you build a mild engine, you'll get mild #'s...if you build it hot, you'll get hot #'s. It does work good, if you build the engine to match. It's not a fully ported W5 head, but the value in this head is truly great.

Brian, how would you compare the TF 190s to the CNC'd RHS heads you sold several years back? Similar deal one might think? Besides the obvious of one being cast iron the other being aluminum...

 

[Brian Hafliger]

I was really happy with our RHS and EQ heads that we sold...they made power, they last, you could bolt them on and go, and were priced well. But those are no more so...the TF head is a great head, and what I would run if given the choice between them and the iron heads most times...I think the iron head was a great performance head for the money, so less money for possibly less power was good for a lot of people...I bet I sold 400+ of those heads!

 

[LO23M8B]

frankly, i have yet to have heard of a trick flow small block motor that has had performance that “ wow’s me”
That said, there may, and likely are, many builds i am unaware of.
To me, they appear to work about as well as a moderately rubbed on eddie head, not bad, to be sure, but i think they will end up in 3rd place among offerings i know of. The new Bloomer head, the hard to find Airwolf head, then the Trickflow.

Hi there . I asked about the bloomer heads and I think you responded but I can't find it. Can you give me some info on them. Thanks.