Solar Panels, for CIVIL discussion

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Interesting. I've been tasked with determining if solar is a viable solution for one of my parent's rentals. Small house, built in the 1970s. PG&E (Pacific Graft and Extortion as they are generally called) bill was $700 last month. By comparison ours was a little under $300 in our small house that was built in 1980. Might also need to do an energy audit on the house...
 
Jim Lusk said:
Interesting. I've been tasked with determining if solar is a viable solution for one of my parent's rentals. Small house, built in the 1970s. PG&E (Pacific Graft and Extortion as they are generally called) bill was $700 last month. By comparison ours was a little under $300 in our small house that was built in 1980. Might also need to do an energy audit on the house...
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Wow you guys are getting hosed. My gas and electric averages $400/month and I live in a 100 year old brick house with original windows and no insulation in the walls. Just a little blown in the attic. Oh and it get's -20° below in the winter here.
 
toolmanmike said:
Wow you guys are getting hosed. My gas and electric averages $400/month and I live in a 100 year old brick house with original windows and no insulation in the walls. Just a little blown in the attic. Oh and it get's -20° below in the winter here.
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Yes, but we do live where it never gets below 15 degrees and almost never that low. We do have some high temps in the summer, but...

Life is a series of trade-offs. I've never lived outside of California, either.
 
So I have a stupid question. WHERE does "excess" power go that we don't use while on the grid? I don't have a pile of batteries 'hind the house.
 
RustyRatRod said:
So I have a stupid question. WHERE does "excess" power go that we don't use while on the grid? I don't have a pile of batteries 'hind the house.
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To the grid. It just ads to the power already goin through the lines.
 
RustyRatRod said:
So I have a stupid question. WHERE does "excess" power go that we don't use while on the grid? I don't have a pile of batteries 'hind the house.
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It keeps your battery fresh in your electric Valiant.
 
fishmens67 said:
If solar panels are so great, why not mount them on the roof of electric cars to maintain battery charge.
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They should be using solar paint. That technology has made progress. I'm guessing just not economically viable at this time.

Give solar time. Oil has had a very messy and decades to develop. Remember the early 70s? Parts of the Great Lakes used to catch on fire because of fossil fuel industries. But they improved.
 
California electricity rates are high enough to justify the cost(.32-.36 per KW) . I did most everything myself and put a 7.625 kW system on the roof two years ago. It will be paid off in about another year and a half so I figure I’ll get 10 or 12 years of free power. Last year my tru-up was $68(total power used minus power generated)this year the tru-up was 34. It really depends on the weather though because if there are clouds, you don’t make any power.
 
damraider said:
California electricity rates are high enough to justify the cost(.32-.36 per KW) . I did most everything myself and put a 7.625 kW system on the roof two years ago. It will be paid off in about another year and a half so I figure I’ll get 10 or 12 years of free power. Last year my tru-up was $68(total power used minus power generated)this year the tru-up was 34. It really depends on the weather though because if there are clouds, you don’t make any power.
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Rates in CT now are ~ $.25 to $.28 per kwhr. I just divide the total bill by the number of kwhrs used. Simple.

Even when the sun doesn't shine, the panels produce some electricity, but when they are covered with snow, nada.
 
tonysrt said:
The bigger problem is the poles carrying the power to your house. Usually storms knock down trees that knock down power lines and you still can't charge your Tesla.
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A decade or two ago we had a Cat #1 come thru CT. We lost power for 5 days. On day three I went into town to get gas for the generator. All the stores and gas stations had no electricity so they couldn't pump gas. I found out later that a tree had fallen on a sub-station and knocked out several small towns. Turned around and drove to a city with power. Luckily I had enough in the tank to get there. Not everything is simple.
 
pt70 said:
All the stores and gas stations had no electricity so they couldn't pump gas.
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I remember calling a power outage a paid day off when I was a pump jockey.

We had a survey done here, thought we got plenty of sun, but nope. Too much roof surface that points the wrong way. We also are kind of in-between roofs, so that gave us pause on going forward too. There's no way I'm putting panels on used shingles.
 
I guess we are pretty cheap in Southeast Wisconsin but I do keep my thermostat at 63-65 in the winter and 76 during the Summer. Our electric and natural gas are combined in one single bill

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I heavily researched solar for my house. Between batteries degrading and maintenance, and replacement, that the panel degrades 25 percent in power over a 20 year period , that the power company will buy the excess power at 7 cents per kilowatt hr when the power you consume from them is @11 cents perk kwh,. When I calculated it I would break even in the long run.
But...I read recently that panels are available with twice the output, which for me could be a game changer.
 
We have solar on our roof and along with my wife's EV, we've been 100% self powered including charging her car for a few weeks at a time now. If/when we do use the grid, it's like 1-6% only so we're fairly happy.
 
in AZ, our elect rates are .089 per kw - 1st 400kw. then .104 per kw,
I installed 10kw solar array . paid cash, did install my self, (I'm cheap)
our return is great, in that 9-10 mos a yr, they owe me, and the other mos, they
take from the $ saved/ banked,
the do pay me .057 per kw, and we generate on avg 600- 800kw per mo,
the state/ fed's/ elect co, all gave rebates ( not tax credits!) so we ended up with 95%
of our cost reimbursed!
all in all, its a win-win,
my 2 cents..... buy the best controller/ inverter, as so many cheap ones fail,
 
Don't have an issue with solar panels per se... usem if you wanna.. your business. If the math hashes out.. go for it.

But don't try to tell me they are good for the environment. Manufacturing them and the rare earth minerals involved is a nasty process and they are not making any plans on what to do with them after their power output drops to 0.

Just like those hugely expensive CFL bulbs we were told were going to save the planet... which are now banned in many states. Turns out creating millions of expensive mercury filled tubes is actually bad.. who could have known?
 
Jim Lusk said:
Yes, but we do live where it never gets below 15 degrees and almost never that low. We do have some high temps in the summer, but...

Life is a series of trade-offs. I've never lived outside of California, either.
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Living in Minnesota. The whole EV and alternative energy certainly has challenges in cold weather. Hell, fossil fuel has challenges too. But has the advantage of decades in R/D experience. I for one like the "Out of the box" thinking. And look forward to seeing the future of energy exploration and development. I now have been reading that nuclear fusion is capable of producing more energy than it takes to deliver. This is a huge step forward. But still decades away from a viable power plant that can deliver. It's one thing to show gross gains. Another to deliver net gains to an energy starved audience.

Many fear the future. Believing that somehow we are losing perspective. But in fact. Innovation cannot be stopped. And the future can, and is bright, if we don't give in to fear.
 
74Scooter said:
Don't have an issue with solar panels per se... usem if you wanna.. your business. If the math hashes out.. go for it.

But don't try to tell me they are good for the environment. Manufacturing them and the rare earth minerals involved is a nasty process and they are not making any plans on what to do with them after their power output drops to 0.

Just like those hugely expensive CFL bulbs we were told were going to save the planet... which are now banned in many states. Turns out creating millions of expensive mercury filled tubes is actually bad.. who could have known?
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I agree, if you want solar panels on your property go for it. I have considered it myself, if only to stop paying the ever increasing taxes and fees all levels of gov't are putting my my utility bill. Even my small suburban town has recently added a usage tax onto my bill in addition to sales tax, library tax, mass transit tax, etc.

However there are three issues that holding me back...
Unless you have an enormous battery pack to buffer and supplement the solar power, solar panels will not work if your electric grid is offline. So if the power goes off, your solar panels stop working as well, and therefore cannot act as a generator type backup power.

Secondly, the panels are only expected to produce power about 3.5 - 4.5 hrs per day. Longer in the summer, less in the winter, and not at all when covered with snow. The other 20 hrs per day you have to draw power from the grid.

Lastly, as some have already mentioned, solar panels are made up of hazardous materials and are considered toxic waste when they wear out. Do I really want to put a toxic waste dump on my roof for my widow or children to have to live with?
 
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