Rat Bastid
Dunamis Metron
He’s running SUPER STOCK. He doesn’t get the option of a bigger valve or port.
Aint no way on Gods green earth he’d be running that valve and port size if the rules didn’t mandate it.
Speedmaster heads for SBM
- Thread starter moparmat2000
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He’s running SUPER STOCK. He doesn’t get the option of a bigger valve or port.
Aint no way on Gods green earth he’d be running that valve and port size if the rules didn’t mandate it.
Rat Bastid
Dunamis Metron
No, he’s not right. If someone jacks up a valve job and port work does that mean it’s right?
I'm just trying to learn. I'm not defending anything or anyone. I would think that anyone capable of cutting seats for larger valves would know to cut the throat and a blending would be easy enough. PPR is the one who brought it up.
B3422w5
Well-Known Member
I know what he is running it on, I posted it.
did you watch his video..he likes what I said in my previous post, small hole..no matter the application.
my point is..way smarter people than you seem to think you are, make a living doing things the opposite of how you think things should work..
more than one way to skin a cat I guess. Long story short, sharper people than the guy you are running over in this thread could do the same with your thoughts too…
lighten up a little.
Yes and no and here’s why. If you take a stock valve out and there is no improvement, then what is under the valve was the restriction. I haven’t gone slower in doing that alone. When I was a young man, I had 2.02’s replace the 1.88’s and I went faster without the work behind the valve to really take advantage of it.
Now if you take a 318 heads 1.78 valve out and use a 2.02, I’d bet the change doesn’t yield any track results worth reporting as a positive move since under the valve wasn’t addressed. But I don’t know that for sure, but I’d bet on it. The area under the valve is very small. A larger valve in this case (IMO) without bowl work really won’t help. Again, IMO.
The problem here is I have never met anyone that has replaced a 1.78 valve in a 318 head with a 2/02 much less port it afterwards. Right here at the forum, anybody that has been around the block a few times will advocate the upgraded work for a 318 but no one will do it.
Often I have said use a 1.88 in 318 head and work the bowl since the build isn’t much of a leap from stock. It’s hard to convince people of what works and what doesn’t even though fellas like Richard Holdner have dyno proven this more than a dozen times himself.
This guy is a special case and I wouldn’t apply this to the average build. His thinking is sound and I’m not going to argue the merits of his route. Like it was said above, if he did t NEED to run that head, he would not run that head. The class forces the use of a stock head (correct?) and that forces OOTB thinking.
I certainly give him credit! But most here and in the world aren’t building what he is doing.
OH! I also agree as all port is better than to large of a port. This is a seriously debatable thing. IMO, a good example of this is the TF head. A small high velocity port that delivers very outstanding numbers. How much this head feeds effectively, I don’t know. Never mind what it has done. But that’s a good starting point to try another head to see what it does against the TF.
Now, IF only, IF only I was a millionaire to just whip together what ever the net suggested to test, just for fun!
Now, IF only, IF only I was a millionaire to just whip together what ever the net suggested to test, just for fun!
B3422w5
Well-Known Member
I know Chris really well, we are friends. He isn’t just a class racer head guy.
He does heads on an NHRA fuel funny car, and tons of other stuff.
His whole world is smaller and torque and velocity. He apply’s it to anything he does.
Different…maybe.
my whole point is guys get ground up on here all the time for having an opinion ( speaking of the Dan guy in this thread) that doesn’t sit well with the experts on here.
I am not an expert about anything, I readily admit it. But teach, don’t kill guys. Damn.
I’m with ya on that. No worries here. Your buddy, I’m SURE! Knows his way around a few things for sure. My point in the comment is not everyone wants to run a cast iron OEM head, have it ported and all the bells and whistles put on it and then run the cams he does, the compression ratio he does and etc to go fast in the street with a combo that does…. What does he run again, OH! Fast as F! And then some.
For most here, they rather an OOTB head and let it rip. Some have it ported and let it rip. And they’re happy with the lighter 50lbs. in weight reduction with the aluminum and all the cost with it.
Yea, there is more than one way to skin a cat. However the person wants to do it is fine with me, IDGAF. As long as they succeed and have fun, that is all that counts.
Rat Bastid
Dunamis Metron
So it’s ok to keep posting wrong information? That’s cool with you? It’s not with me.
I’ll say it again. If it wasn’t for rules, the guy you mentioned wouldn’t be running that valve and port. No way. If he did and no one else had to, he would get killed.
You said it yourself. It’s all relative. No one is saying use the biggest valve and port you can fit.
But it’s stupid to claim that a 2.02 valve will kill enough velocity to cause a significant loss of torque. That’s bullshit and we both know that.
Its all about the SHAPE of the port moreso than the size.
I can show you three different 200 CC ports that are all radically different from each other. And they all won’t make the same power.
Dealing with airspeed is a huge deal. Too much airspeed can be just as detrimental to making horsepower as a slow port will.
j par
Well-hung Member
Divide and conquer While be littling your opponent...
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TFC FORD 351C CLEVELAND 4V INTAKE INLET PORT FILLERS TOUNGS KIT - INC FASTENERS MAKE A 3V PORT
Silly Ford guys filling in their ports......
There's a reason they sell bigger stall converters and steeper gears.
Silly Ford guys filling in their ports......
There's a reason they sell bigger stall converters and steeper gears.
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I had the opportunity to do some flow testing on a set of small block Mopar class heads years ago. It wasn’t that they flowed extremely well but what they did do was get to their max flow number and stay there. When that head should have crashed it didn’t. My friend asked if I could do a valve job to it and I told him no, the valve job I use would ruin that head. I told him those guys spend crazy amounts of money to come up with non conventional valve seat angles that work for that application. It’s top secret stuff that is seldom talked about because this work makes them a reputation and lots of money. Go on Godsons website and with all the cutters available you won’t find an on the shelf super stock seat cutter. They will make you what you want if you fill out an order form but it’s not available to just anyone.
B3422w5
Well-Known Member
Was talking to Chris and he told me he was doing a set of super stock heads for Steve Schmidt . I said I thought he was going out of business.
Chris said..He pays me.
if he goes under it’s because he has waited to long to learn he can’t do cylinder heads at his shop, and should farm it out to guys like me.
Chris said..He pays me.
if he goes under it’s because he has waited to long to learn he can’t do cylinder heads at his shop, and should farm it out to guys like me.
I didn’t have the proper tooling to properly set the throat sizing for years and did it by hand. Neway seat cutters, stones, etc have been used and still are used by most to do valve jobs and can not set the throat size. My local shop that did my stuff for years could not set throat size because although they had the machine capable of doing it didn’t have the right cutters. You can have the best tooling in the world and if you don’t understand head flow and head working techniques you are doing half the job.
I sent this video to myself so I can watch it later but the first thing I noticed is why the c-clamps. Every head I flow is placed on a head mount with studs to local the head perfectly on the cylinder head adaptor. How does he know the head is located right. Maybe I’ll find out later.
Rat Bastid
Dunamis Metron
TFC FORD 351C CLEVELAND 4V INTAKE INLET PORT FILLERS TOUNGS KIT - INC FASTENERS MAKE A 3V PORT
Silly Ford guys filling in their ports......
There's a reason they sell bigger stall converters and steeper gears.
Way to take something totally out of context. You know exactly how phony you are.
B3422w5
Well-Known Member
he said he uses them to help seal the head
Well I knew that and maybe it’s in the video but if you don’t have a consistent way to locate the head your flow numbers will be fudged. Like I said I use studs and bolt it down like it is on a cylinder block.
B3422w5
Well-Known Member
yea, he said the same thing you are saying. Any leaking you can’t get an accurate reading
Ok I finally got around to watching his video. If you guys go back and watch this video again if you watch the vertical manometer on the left side as he goes from .200 to .300 then to .400 and probably .500 you will see the fluid drops and is being raised back up with the knob on his left everytime he opens the valve. At the upper lifts you will see he had to lower it to 28 inches of depression instead of raise it. I immediately knew he lost flow and the head was going turbulent. As he said it’s usually the shortside needing more area. With my bench being an orfice bench I will see that a lot faster than he will on a fluid manometer. I don’t miss my old bench one bit. I still didn’t see how he is locating that head on the head mount. It’s so important to consistently locate it to see your gains or losses during your porting. I have two small block Chevy mounts (big bore and small bore) two big block Mopars, .030 over 440 and 4.500 bore, one small block Mopar (4.010 bore) and one small block Ford. I will be building one for LS Chevy heads next. All use a head gasket and are drilled and tapped for head bolts or studs.
B3422w5
Well-Known Member
I think he said that was a bone stock ford 5.4 head and was the first time he had ever looked at one.
Ya it was something like that. Good information for guys that have never watched the procedure
On the horizontal manometer in front of him as he opened the valve and adjusted the vertical manometer he would write down the numbers at each lift. Then he would take that sheet and use the spreadsheet chart to convert that number to a flow number. With a pilot bench (manometer) you are now supposed to calculate the weather as the barometer reading affect fluid flow. To do it right is a pain in the duppa
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