Steering Box Ratio

[Moparmonster]

I'm finishing up my suspension, ending with the steering box, the stock ratio being 24:1. In looking at parts, however, I find that I have a couple of options; 20:1 or 16:1.

Which would be best for a well-handling street driven car?

I already have the Firm Feel fast ratio pitman and idler arms, polygraphite PST rebuild kit, and Addco sway bar.

*1965 Dodge Dart with 1973 front disk brake suspension upgrade*

 

[MidnightSwinger]

16:1

 

[teringer]

How big your arms and do you need to park in tight spaces as lot and how wide your front tires can you get your car alignment to neg caster?

 

[Moparmonster]

How big your arms and do you need to park in tight spaces as lot and how wide your front tires can you get your car alignment to neg caster?

Once done, the car will live in the garage, straight in, straight out. I hate parallel parking but because of that, I don't mind walking a good distance from my car to the store. I don't mind cranking the wheel but I don't think that I'll really have to.

 

[Syleng1]

On my 66 Barracuda over this past spring I switched out my factory modified ferm feel box for the Borgeson ps Mopar box. Huge difference. Lighter, header clearance galore and best of all it is just like a modern feel car when we drive.
I am using the factory ratio pitman arm.
I possibly will never go back to a factory box again.

 

[Craig Burriss]

I love my 16:1 box. I don’t have the quick ratio pitman arm yet, but after a long day, the steering can get heavy with my 285s up front

 

[66fs]

I love driving a 16:1 manual box in the 66 Barracuda, but my garage is not straight in and straight out. I'm thinking of going 20:1, decisions, decisions...

 

[Murray]

Will the wife be driving it?

 

[Commando66]

My personal preference is 20:1. I’ve had cars with all three different ratios and 20:1 is the “Goldilocks” of steering boxes…just right.

 

[jimjimjimmy]

I PUT A 16-1 flaming river box in a year ago it handles nice but it's too heavy on wheel for me , a 20-1 is in my future .

 

[autoxcuda]

I'm finishing up my suspension, ending with the steering box, the stock ratio being 24:1. In looking at parts, however, I find that I have a couple of options; 20:1 or 16:1.

Which would be best for a well-handling street driven car?

I already have the Firm Feel fast ratio pitman and idler arms, polygraphite PST rebuild kit, and Addco sway bar.

*1965 Dodge Dart with 1973 front disk brake suspension upgrade*

do you have the quick ratio long pitman and idler arm installed in the car? I don’t think they offer a set for 66-older A-bodies. The only application listed on the FF website is: Headers that DO fit: Schumacher: A bodies W/Tri-Y and 440 (High Deck) ** it doesn’t say 60-66 vs 67-76 A-body. But the Pitman & Idler stud points downward. So you’ll need a 73-76 centerlink or fabricate a new 60-66 centerlink**

The ones I’m familiar with are made for 66-72 B-bodies and E-bodies. They can be made to fit 68-76 A-bodies in certain exhaust situations with careful head pipe fabrication and careful geometry measuring with a special bumpsteer guage.

Anyway… Do Not run quick ratio arm AND 16:1. That will give you overall 12.7:1 manual steering. That is too much for manual steering

 

[jimjimjimmy]

do you have the quick ratio long pitman and idler arm installed in the car?

I don’t think they will fit unless you have stock exhaust manifolds and custom head pipe. I don’t think the TTI shorty header will work with them in an a-body. Check their website.

anyways Do Not run quick ratio arm AND 16:1. That will give you 12.7:1 manual steering. That too much for manual.

What is the difference in length between the two arms . Or better yet the length of both . Thanks.

 

[autoxcuda]

What is the difference in length between the two arms . Or better yet the length of both . Thanks.

I forget exactly off hand. But it’s about over an inch. Edit: one listing says 1 1/2” longer

look at the distance between the rear edge of your pitman and idler… then go back an inch… not going to happen in most cases.

If you have manual steering, just get the ratio you want there. If power steering, it’s 16:1 stock. Next option would be Borganson at 14:1.

 

[autoxcuda]

What is the difference in length between the two arms . Or better yet the length of both . Thanks.

here’s a pic I found on google. It’s from KernDog that’s also in FABO

the picture is from a 1970 B-body Charger… NOT an A-body

 

[Moparmonster]

do you have the quick ratio long pitman and idler arm installed in the car? I don’t think they offer a set for 66-older A-bodies. The only application listed on the FF website is: Headers that DO fit: Schumacher: A bodies W/Tri-Y and 440 (High Deck) ** it doesn’t say 60-66 vs 67-76 A-body. But the Pitman & Idler stud points downward. So you’ll need a 73-76 centerlink or fabricate a new 60-66 centerlink**[/QUOTE

Yes, I have the aforementioned fast ratio idler and pitman arms from Firm Feel, as well as the '65-'66 V8 center link. I'll be using stock 340 exhaust manifolds so I won't run into header clearance problems.

Anyway… Do Not run quick ratio arm AND 16:1. That will give you overall 12.7:1 manual steering. That is too much for manual steering

This is more what I was looking for, because part of me is thinking that the fast ratio idler and pitman arms, combined with a fast ratio steering box would be too much to manage, especially when the car is going from a dead stop or moving at a slow speed.

Thus, I think that, with my particular combination of parts, I'm going to be happier with the 20:1 ratio.

 

[autoxcuda]

Yes, I have the aforementioned fast ratio idler and pitman arms from Firm Feel, as well as the '65-'66 V8 center link. I'll be using stock 340 exhaust manifolds so I won't run into header clearance problems.

Did you have them from another project? Can you return them to Firm Feel?

You WILL run into headpipe clearance issues even with 340 manifolds. The factory OE headpipe is only 1/2-3/4" away from the pitman on 67-76 cars with upward pointed centerlink stud. Less with downward point stud pitman. And the factory headpipe is reduced diameter to just to give extra clearance. The TTI and Accurate 2 1/2" diameter 340 manifold head pipes have a tighter turn for clearance and they are very close.

For fast ratio with 340 manifolds, you need to get a custom exhaust shop to explore IF they can fab something for the headpipes. The person I know that did on a 1968 A-body with fast ratio arm and 340 manifolds milled his drivers side manifold at an angle for added clearance and still made custom head pipes.

Sort of a moot point on a 60-66 A-body since the fast ratio arm will not even bolt onto those cars. You need a custom centerlink. Either shortened 73-76 or full custom like Firm Feel sells but with pitman/idler stud pointed other way. AND the Fast Ratio idler is through bolt, not stud like a 60-67 A-body. So you need to address that with something wonky like a just putting a bolt on through there. Or fabbing a idler mount from scratch or modified from a 68-76 style.

In short, it would take a a lot of fabrication, suspension measurement skills, exhaust fab skills to pull off fast ratio arms on a 60-66.

 

[Moparmonster]

In short, it would take a a lot of fabrication, suspension measurement skills, exhaust fab skills to pull off fast ratio arms on a 60-66.

Now I dunno know what to think. What you're telling me is in direct opposition to virtually everything I've learned, read, and been told over the last 20 years in gathering parts for this project, including from someone who's done several dozen '73-'76 conversions on early "A" bodies.

 

[autoxcuda]

Now I dunno know what to think. What you're telling me is in direct opposition to virtually everything I've learned, read, and been told over the last 20 years in gathering parts for this project, including from someone who's done several dozen '73-'76 conversions on early "A" bodies.

60-66 A-bodies have unique K-member, centerlink.

67-76 centerlinks and 67-76 K-members will not interchange with 60-66 narrow engine compartment A-bodies. The later A-body is wider.

The K-member bolts are wider out on the later A-body. And the centerlink is wider too.

motor mounts are different too.

UCA, LCA, spindles, ball joints, tie rods will interchange 62? to 76. Some of those parts like UCA, spindle and ball joint interchange as a group

 

[Kern Dog]

Did I understand Steve to state that there are NO Fast Ratio steering arms for the cars with mounting studs that point UP like the 1972 and older A bodies as well as the 67 and older stud mounted idler?

 

[Moparmonster]

60-66 A-bodies have unique K-member, centerlink.

I'm using the original I6 K member and a 'dropped' center link from an originally V8/273 equipped early "A" body. If that, for some reason, won't work, new, aftermarket pieces now exist.

67-76 centerlinks and 67-76 K-members will not interchange with 60-66 narrow engine compartment A-bodies. The later A-body is wider.

The K-member bolts are wider out on the later A-body. And the centerline is wider too."

None of that applies to me.

motor mounts are different too.

I'm using Schumacher's I6 to V8 motor mounts with my stock K member.

UCA, LCA, spindles, ball joints, tie rods will interchange 62? to 76. Some of those parts like UCA, spindle and ball joint interchange as a group

I dismembered a '73 Dart for all of the pertinent suspension and brake hardware. Everything but the aforementioned center link is '73 Dart.

Perhaps I should've included details on the K member and motor mounts but didn't think them pertinent at the time.

 

[autoxcuda]

Did I understand Steve to state that there are NO Fast Ratio steering arms for the cars with mounting studs that point UP like the 1972 and older A bodies as well as the 67 and older stud mounted idler?

Correct. They all point down and have through bolt idlers. What you have on your charger is the only configuration I know of.

 

[autoxcuda]

I'm using the original I6 K member and a 'dropped' center link from an originally V8/273 equipped early "A" body. If that, for some reason, won't work, new, aftermarket pieces now exist.



None of that applies to me.



I'm using Schumacher's I6 to V8 motor mounts with my stock K member.



I dismembered a '73 Dart for all of the pertinent suspension and brake hardware. Everything but the aforementioned center link is '73 Dart.

Perhaps I should've included details on the K member and motor mounts but didn't think them pertinent at the time.

You sound fine with all that since you are re-using your 66-down K-member and centerlink

It’s JUST that Fast Ratio Pitman will not bolt to your centerlink. And the Fast Ratio Idler will not bolt to your centerlink or bolt to the tapered stud hole on your K-member.

 

[66fs]

I'm using the original I6 K member and a 'dropped' center link from an originally V8/273 equipped early "A" body. If that, for some reason, won't work, new, aftermarket pieces now exist.



None of that applies to me.



I'm using Schumacher's I6 to V8 motor mounts with my stock K member.



I dismembered a '73 Dart for all of the pertinent suspension and brake hardware. Everything but the aforementioned center link is '73 Dart.

Perhaps I should've included details on the K member and motor mounts but didn't think them pertinent at the time.

Call Firm Feel they will straighten it out.

 

[Moparmonster]

Call Firm Feel they will straighten it out.

They've assured me that this combination of parts will, indeed, work. I need to call Firm Feel in the next few days anyway so I'll address it with them then.

If the fast ratio idler and pitman arms don't work, I'll go with the stock style parts, which I already have, and the 16:1 ratio steering box.

If those parts do work, I'll probably go with the 20:1 ratio, which will bring me closer to the 16:1 rate anyway.

 

[autoxcuda]

They've assured me that this combination of parts will, indeed, work. I need to call Firm Feel in the next few days anyway so I'll address it with them then.

If the fast ratio idler and pitman arms don't work, I'll go with the stock style parts, which I already have, and the 16:1 ratio steering box.

If those parts do work, I'll probably go with the 20:1 ratio, which will bring me closer to the 16:1 rate anyway.

If you want to end up with a net 16:1 ratio, just get that 16:1 box. Longer fast ratio pitman/idler limit your future for headers and make things more complicated for 340 manifold headpipes.

And the Fast Ratio pitman/idler are a wear items that are more expensive to replace than standard parts.