Stop in for a cup of coffee

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dukeboy_318 said:
It’s a funny thing when it comes to assembling an engine. There’s so many different accepted approaches. In both internet form and book form. For example, last week there was the discussion about which order to put the pistons in my 440. One book says start at number 1, then go 7,2,8,3,6,5,4; the other book says start at 3, go to 6, 4, 5, 1,8,2,7 and then the 1980s Haynes manual says 3,4,5,6,1,2,7,8 .


Then the same books, have 3 different orders for torquing the mains and setting the thrust bearing, then on top of that, the Haynes book shows the anchor slots being on opposite sides on the rod from each other, but if you do that, the oil holes in the bearings don’t line up.

crazy crazy
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We (my brother and I) learned early on our first engine to use the Service Manual for your main source of information...

The guy at the parts store told us the wrong way to install the bearings and we installed them backwards... Killed our crank in our 340 ... We had to buy a new crank kit (crank & bearings) for it...

We then used the service manual for reference.... Who else knows how to build them better than the company that designed and built them???? Trust their info...
 
krazykuda said:
That's why I usually stay out of those, many of the keyboard experts with different opinions try to argue against logic....
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Well it’s also decades of passed down information and at times conflicting information.

working in that test cell for cummins, engine break in was a hotly debated topic everytime until Cummins finally put a policy in place. Every engine is brought to operating temp, then broken in. Then as sample, every 100th engine is started up, rev’d to 1800 RPMs where Max torque is stock, then sat there for an hour, if it was still running after that, the batch was determined good. If not, it was torn down and sent back to engineering
 
toolmanmike said:
I put them in 2,4,6,8 then tilt thee block the other direction to get the other 4. Easier for me and even with hose on the rod bolts, less chance of a mishap.
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I do not think it matters in what order they go in, just WHERE they go in matters!!
 
Mopar Tim said:
I do not think it matters in what order they go in, just WHERE they go in matters!!
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Just do them in pairs on the same crank journal...

Whatever order is easiest for you to keep track and make sure you don't skip any or leave the nuts/bolts loose....
 
dukeboy_318 said:
Well it’s also decades of passed down information and at times conflicting information.

working in that test cell for cummins, engine break in was a hotly debated topic everytime until Cummins finally put a policy in place. Every engine is brought to operating temp, then broken in. Then as sample, every 100th engine is started up, rev’d to 1800 RPMs where Max torque is stock, then sat there for an hour, if it was still running after that, the batch was determined good. If not, it was torn down and sent back to engineering
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Same at the engine plant that I worked at...

The dyno room would always warm the engines up before running the program... Part of their program was revving to 6000 rpm, and another part was 1/2 hour at wide open throttle.... They did a 10 hour run with different RPM's involved, then tore them down, verified torque on all fasteners before loosening them, and inspecting the parts for wear after they were torn down...
 
krazykuda said:
Just do them in pairs on the same crank journal...

Whatever order is easiest for you to keep track and make sure you don't skip any or leave the nuts/bolts loose....
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I might have missed a rod bolt/nut torque one time. In a 460 boat engine. All I know, it threw a rod on breakin. Well, not actually threw a rod, just a rod knock.... Do not know why....Only failure I ever had.....Of course in a boat!! PITA to take back out......
 
Mopar Tim said:
I might have missed a rod bolt/nut torque one time. In a 460 boat engine. All I know, it threw a rod on breakin. Do not know why....Only failure I ever had.....Of course in a boat!! PITA to take back out......
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You could have left the nut loose, or not got the bolt all the way bottomed in the rod and it walked under load which made the cap loose when the top of the bolt seated....

Sometimes it's hard to tell...

That's why I tighten them when I install them and usually go back and retorque immediately....

Then before I put the oil pan on, I check all of the rod and mains again and put a paint mark on each one to indicate that I have done my verification torque before I button it up...

Measure twice... Or three or four or five times so you don't throw a rod or crank... Usually three or four times is good enough for me to be confident I got them all correct and nothing's loose...
 
Mopar Tim said:
I might have missed a rod bolt/nut torque one time. In a 460 boat engine. All I know, it threw a rod on breakin. Well, not actually threw a rod, just a rod knock.... Do not know why....Only failure I ever had.....Of course in a boat!! PITA to take back out......
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That's why when I built Eddie's engine with him, one of us would torque the rod or main, then the other would go right behind and double check...

By the time we were done, each nut and bolt had been checked 6 times at least (Three passes each) and there would be no question that we didn't get one....
 
krazykuda said:
Same at the engine plant that I worked at...

The dyno room would always warm the engines up before running the program... Part of their program was revving to 6000 rpm, and another part was 1/2 hour at wide open throttle.... They did a 10 hour run with different RPM's involved, then tore them down, verified torque on all fasteners before loosening them, and inspecting the parts for wear after they were torn down...
Click to expand...
The fun ones to watch for me were the torture tests. Cummins takes their engines, no oil but the assembly lube. Hooks them to the test cell dyno. Set them at 1800 RPMs, run them 24 hours at load, which draws about 25 pounds of boost, or until they blow up, whichever occurs first. Most of the time, the engines make it to the 24 hr mark. The things are junk by that point for sure. And rattling themselves apart.
 
krazykuda said:
That's why when I built Eddie's engine with him, one of us would torque the rod or main, then the other would go right behind and double check...

By the time we were done, each nut and bolt had been checked 6 times at least (Three passes each) and there would be no question that we didn't get one....
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I did similar on my 440 over the weekend. Checked it 3 times, the 2nd and 3rd I got the idea to mark each nut with a different color paint marker just to check myself
 
Mopar Tim said:
I might have missed a rod bolt/nut torque one time. In a 460 boat engine. All I know, it threw a rod on breakin. Well, not actually threw a rod, just a rod knock.... Do not know why....Only failure I ever had.....Of course in a boat!! PITA to take back out......
Click to expand...

I knew a guy that had gone through 3 of those 460s on his jet boat :eek:
 
Just for giggles i went out and tried the fargo, 15f. Fired right up. Astro, 2 attempts. I bet fuel pressure is low. It at least started,wouldnt fire the other day.
 
Depending on which weather geek you watch, it should be somewhere between 75° and 81° here today, and one said quite windy but neglected to reveal the direction of the wind. 81°, windy, January, has Santa Ana wind writ all over it.
 
“I’m an engineer “


God how I’ve grown to laugh at that sentence so much in the last 6 years of working for engineers
 
1:00, right on the button. They cut the power. I just remembered. Had to scramble and get the inverter connected to pellet stove.
 
After only a couple days after a customer picks up their vehicle, i should message them
“Please pay your bill, im running out of places to hide the bodies”:lol:
 
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