Super Bird/ Daytona Sales

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Abodymachine

Abodymachine

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I am 21 years old and have grown up around mopars and own a few. Me being so young, i obviously was not around in the muscle car era. I am a monthly subscriber to mopar muscle and read the articles and talk with friends about this but i cannot seem to get a straight to the point understanding of why these cars did not sell? I have been told the cars just sat on the lot not moving.. WHY?? they are beautiful.

Once again i reitorate i am only 21 years old born 1988. Why did you old farts not buy these cars when you got the chance?? haha

Thanks,
Ryan
 
Well those cars were only built because of NASCAR (or whatever it was called in the 70s). In order for that body shape and wing to be legal for track use "X" amount had to be sold as regular production cars.

Although we look at them as classics now….. Back in the day they were awkward, strange and expensive.
 
Ryan, I'm 51 years old and remember how my Dad used to laugh when we drove by Hillview Chrysler/Plymouth in Greensburg, PA., and saw the Superbirds sitting there on the lot. Shortly after the 'Birds came out we bought a 1970 Dodge Dart Swinger 340 (which I later drove to High School) and the main issue was they (the 'Birds) cost so much in relative dollars and were so impractical. You could buy a Mopar station wagon equipped with a 383 or 440 and they'd haul serious butt on the open road in addition to being a family car. Compared with an expensive 'Bird or Daytona which were also hard to fit into a conventional parking space, there were a lot of other car choices out there from which to pick. Add to that the rising price of gas (I used to pay $0.48 a gallon to fill up the Swinger) and they just weren't that attractive to your average buyer.

That's my take on it; anyone else have anything different to add?
 
I do understand how strange they must have looked with the nose cone and huge wing but my dad told me you could absolutely hall serious rearend in those cars barrying the speedometer. My thinking was with the success that was had in Nascar with the car that it would duplicate on the streets.

I did not really think how much a pain that would be parking. From reading i knew they were more expensive but how much more than your conventional 440 Road Runner back in the day?
 
As mentoned above, I don't think society as a whole was ready for the wing cars - price and impracticality being the main reasons. Many of the wing cars (especially the birds) sat so long (some into the next model year) on the dealer lots that they were transformed back into Chargers and Roadrunners. Of course, the only external way to really tell was the rear glass/window plugs and the VIN. One of the local guys (from Santa Cruz) found one that was sold this way and fully restored it as a bird. The car had all of its original attaching locations (then filled in) for the nose, wing, fender scoops, etc.
 
[QUOTEThe car had all of its original attaching locations (then filled in) for the nose, wing, fender scoops, etc.[/QUOTE]

had no clue it was that bad that they had to turn them back into Road Runners... thats insane.. did people really back then think they were ugly?
 
imagine that buyer who thinks they just bought a conventional road runner then run the vin and wow.. found a superbird.. one lucky soul.
 
Keep in mind it was a different era, when a car was a major investment, the mindset back then was things should be practical, and these cars were too....excessive?

To give you an idea, in 1967 my 'crazy' aunt visited us from New York in a rented Hertz Shelby Mustang GT350...she was the talk of the neighborhood because of the car AND because she didn't wear a bra!
 
You need to remember. When people were buying these new, they were buying a car for everyday use.

None of our cars had any collector value back then. For example…. In 1979 my uncle bought a real 69 Z/28 Camaro for $300.

Then you had to justify a car like that with your wife. She sure as hell didn't want a long *** ugly thing like that to pack the kids and groceries in.

The extra cost of winged cars (around $800ish in 1970) = about $4,500 in todays money.
 
1968FormulaS340 said:
You need to remember. When people were buying these new, they were buying a car for everyday use.

None of our cars had any collector value back then. For example…. In 1979 my uncle bought a real 69 Z/28 Camaro for $300.

Then you had to justify a car like that with your wife. She sure as hell didn't want a long *** ugly thing like that to pack the kids and groceries in.

The extra cost of winged cars (around $800ish in 1970) = about $4,500 in todays money.
Click to expand...

I wish so much i was born in the 50's so i would be old enough to drive back then.

So these cars sold few units.. and the ones that didn't sell got auctioned?
 
I have said this several times. If you were born in the early 1950s all you would be doing is waiting for your free ride to Vietnam (You got drafted and didn't have a volunteer army like today).

You had some real bad crap going on. It wasn't all free love, flowers and cool cars.

Like my dad for example….. His first new car was a 1966 Chevelle SS, 396, 4 speed, white with red interior…… By 1968 he was in Vietnam watching his buddies get shot all to hell. In 2008 he was still jumping out of bed at night because he dreamed he had walked into an ambush.

My step dad was shot through the body. He has an entry wound scar on his left side, an exit wound scar on his right side (the bullet went all the way through his body passing under his heart) then the bullet shot his right elbow off. They saved the arm but it is fused and he can't bend it.
 
Nope==they got turned into Roadrunners or sent back to the factory. Most of the posts summed it all up pretty well. You really would be surprised how no one gave them much more more than (maybe) a second look. There were so many choices of musclecars back then & so many ways they could be outfitted you could spend days pouring over the salesman's order books just to sort out how you wanted your car equiped. While there were some standard pieces most would order, if you wanted a luxury musclecar it could be done or a stripped-down no frills, just about track ready car that was do-able too, and a good car salesman didn't really care HOW you ordered it, jsut that you did. Good luck having that luxury NOW! It was a great time back then............
 
I remember seeing one for sale in 1983 when I was 19, driving my Duster, and thought it was ugly and impractical then, in spite of being a Mopar man through and through. The owner wanted $10,000 for it, and I thought it was obscene at the time. Funny how I still recall that conversation, though.

Another thing to keep in perspective: It seems that Hot Rod and Car Craft have more Mopar articles in one month than they did in a whole year back then. Mopar was below Ford, which was below anything GM. Times have changed, and Barret had a lot to do with that.
 
All good points for you, and I am sure it has been said, but the hemi, 6 pack cars, and anything classifed as a sports car had crazy high auto insurance rates too. Then in 71-72 it all crashed with major emission changes implemented.

PS I liked those cars when I was youg, but a lot of folks thought they were goofy back in the day, and some still doo.. their loss.

I agree I love em!

Had a chance a a few 10 years ago when they were still mostly under 100k, still too much for my little check book...

superbird2.jpg


Superbirdfull.jpg
 
Then you had to justify a car like that with your wife. She sure as hell didn't want a long *** ugly thing like that to pack the kids and groceries in.


sounds like my wife when I had my 74 extended cab, long bed 440:-D then she was ready to leave me when I traded it for a lifted travelall ( she could walk under that thing):toothy10:
 
with ONE huge exception being the war.. i would just loved to have lived in the muscle car times.. kind of like in movies you see.. with all these mean cars passing everywhere.. one of my favorite movies from the early 90s is DAZED AND CONFUSED. took place back in 77. it seemed so fun if you were around 15 or 16 years of age back then.

around 1997 or so my dad and i was riding in our 70 satellite when we were stopped at a gas station.. the fellow was real nice and he thought the car was cool then he said "i love the car.. there is one right up the street from me for sale for $2000 that looks just like it except it looks funny... it has a pointy nose and something tall on the deck lid." Dad goes how fast does your car go? nevermind give me directions..

We left the gas station and drove straight over (KINDA QUICKLY).. there sat a refrigerator white superbird.. just like the fellow said.. too bad a guy from across town got to it before we did!!!!
 
Abodymachine,

From what I've read in this thread I concur with the guys' comments and/or opinions.

From my personal perspective I don't think there was a definitve link between NASCAR and the muscle car. Drag racing clearly influenced the muscle car era , not so much NASCAR.

I say this from personal experience; In '69 I went to my local dealer looking for a GTX. There was a Daytona Charger sitting on the lot. I never gave it a second look. I wasn't interested in NASCAR and therefore I couldn't relate to that type of car. I assume most muscle car guys had the same thought.

IMO - They are nice to look at and admire but not very practical on the street.

And if it's any consolation Ford went through the same issues with their Torino Taledaga. A butt ugly car, and it didn't sell either.
 
sscuda,

that is a very valid point.. i did not know nascar wasnt reflective in those times. i was under the impression from all the information popping up on tv and the internet that nascar was a fad back in the 70s which in turn gave me the question why did they not sell.

i havent heard of the torino talledega.. i am going to google it.
 
I think part of what makes the wing cars sell so well, and at such high prices today is the fact that they were way over the top back when new. It's absurd to think that a car maker would go to such extremes to win a race and sell a street version to do so, even though there is no point to a design like that on the street.
I remember being around ten years old (early 80's) and I saw a Super Bird. Someone a couple streets away must have had it tucked away and got it out for a summer drive. I was in awe. I thought it was the Batmobile! I had seen plenty of muscle car before, but never one of those other than a zip toy I had. I thought it was made up. I imagine back when they came out the reaction was the same. People were more conservative than they are today and a car like that was just too much for most. Also remember that most families were a one car household. Two cars and you were rich unless it was a pick-up truck, which were cheap (like they should be) back then.
 
I'll concur with the family man ideas, too. Growing up there was a red 'Bird sitting in an old run down shack of a garage not too far from where I lived. We could drive by, see the "Plymouth" on the quarters and the wing standing tall. It always caught my eye. Hell, if caught Pop's eye, too. It sat there, untouched for years.

But Pop needed a family truckster. Something three kids at home and Momma could sit in, too. Plus insure, put gas in, and drive around. The Duster was the family truckster for years, but just as soon as money became available something more family oriented was parked in the driveway. Various 318 and slant 6 four doors came and went, even a K-car wagon. By the time Pop got hit by the muscle car bug, when all of his kids were grown, the 'Bird was gone.
 
Yeah, my uncle was doing well for himself making $20k a year in 1969 before he got his arse shipped out to Nam. He is one of the lucky ones who lived to come home to reclaim his mothballed "Vietnam Car". It was just a Ford Falcon but he loved the thing. At $500 it took him a year to save up for the thing even used. To him paying over five grand for one of the "super cars" was out of the question. What he really wanted was a Mustang with a 428 Cobra Jet but it was more than 1/4 of his annual income!

Being an 80s kid was tough becuase in that decade you could buy 60s muscle for pennies on the dollar as most of them were all worn out and rusting but still servicable and driveable. My first car was almost a Challenger with a 440 till my father vetoed the sale and made me get the nova with the straight-6 250.

Still I know what you mean, to have that kind of $ back then...
 
Abodymachine said:
sscuda,

that is a very valid point.. i did not know nascar wasnt reflective in those times. i was under the impression from all the information popping up on tv and the internet that nascar was a fad back in the 70s which in turn gave me the question why did they not sell.

i havent heard of the torino talledega.. i am going to google it.
Click to expand...


Abody,


Let me add a little more:

NASCAR had minimal influence with the public in general. Some of older folks in the 50's, 60, and 70's were roundy round racing fans, especially in the southern states. The Big 3 for whatever reason thought that NASCAR would help them sell the muscle cars but in fact they sold more family sedans because of NASCAR's influence. The old "Win on Sunday - Sell on Monday" routine.

The muscle cars were popular with the teens and early 20's crowd. The younger crowd was more into the drag racing. It wasn't until the latter half of the sixties ('65 and on) when the entire Big 3 finally woke up and discovered drag racing actually sold muscle cars. Then the party got started. It was late getting started but it did happen.

Prior to the mid sixties drag racing was considered to be on par with the motorcycle gangs of that era and was generally frowned upon. The only reason we had organized drag racing events back then was to keep the street racing contained.

Every once in a while I take my albums out, look at my old pictures, and wish I had kept some of those 60's and early 70's Mopar muscle cars I owned (new) and drag raced. I guess that's why us old guys still collect and play with these old Mopars. I guess you could say it keeps us connected. I hate to admit it sometimes but my current muscle car (race car) is also my last. I know my son will enjoy it, all too soon enough.

What did you think of the Torino Talledaga? Mercury had one too but I can't remember the name. I don't think Chev came out with anything very unusual during those years but I could be wrong.

I remember Mopar sponsored a wing car in SS/DA at one time. Just to compete with the SS 454 Chevelles and 427 Ford Fairlanes/Cyclones of the time. The Charger did well from what I recall but it stuck out like a dog's n_ _ s in the pits.

FYI - my first new car was a '67 GTX - 440 (2 X4 carbs) / 727 auto/ 3.91 gears. It was handfull on bias ply tires let me tell you. I ran re-treaded cheater slicks at the track. Times were high 12's to low 13's and I thought I was flying. My very first official sanctioned (legal) drag race was June 1965 @ Cayuga Dragway and the (non Mopar) car stalled on the starting line in front of a whole bunch of people. Those were the days! Today, we run low 8's in a full body SS car and think it's too slow, go figure.



sscuda

:clock:
 
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