Super Gas

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SGBARRACUDA said:
How old are you? I seems you don't have a great knowledge of drag racing,try running dead on a 9.90 index @160 mph without electronics, consistantly.
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I don't know what age has to do with racing, but I am 58. I raced before and after bracket racing started,and I never saw anything as GOOFY as when I watched S/G the first time. But as it has been explained to me it is for people that has a race car and little or no ability to work on(or just too lazy)their car to get it to run on the index can be competive. Sure its easier to punch a few buttons than to work with a car. Next maybe they will come out with a robot to drive the car for them.
 
To clear up reaction time question. As an example, when you see that a guy has a .423 reaction time, that means he was .023 from a perfect .400 reaction,(using a 4 tenths pro tree). I think you may be thinking back to the old way they used to represent reaction times on the old chrondek style systems. I remember when the time tickets showed your true reaction time as say .121 or as we knew it, .621 on a 5 tenths tree.(which meant, even back then, you were slow on the light). I too think electronics in bracket racing takes away from the true challenge of trying to make your car run the number. But electronics are so embedded in racing today that it is here to stay. I run no-box classes when I race. Much more challenging. I think many guys feel the same way, as those classes are the biggest classes just about everywhere you go in bracket racing weekly events. Although I have many friends that run electronics, and I don't thinktheir efforts or results on the track mean any less. Jus my humble opinion.
 
sbknut said:
The driver still has to stage the car properly, hit the tree, and run the number. If the boxes aren't set right, the traction goes away, or any other thing goes wrong you loose. The good foot brake racer will win against a box car more often than not.
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You obviously havent watched the super class cars in this century. A foot brake racer will never win a event full of box cars.. Let me explain it to you. First you stage when both cars light the second bulb the guy turns on the delay box which launches the car at the .4 second mark, It also activates the throttle stop. Then the car launches at about 1/2 throttle it rolls out to the 60 mark the throttle stop controller will slowly turn off the throttle stop. This takes the traction problem away and the car speeds to a almost perfect 9.90 at a 160+ miles per hour. How the hell is a footbrake racer gonna beat that? When elctronics launch the car, control throttle to prevent spinning and basically time the run? All you have to do is get it all timed in right.
 
SGBARRACUDA said:
How old are you? I seems you don't have a great knowledge of drag racing,try running dead on a 9.90 index @160 mph without electronics, consistantly.
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I think that is his point. It is very difficult. Those that can, foot brake. Those that can't, use the electronic crutch.
I have been a foot brake racer since 1958, and will never use a "box".
 
HOTMOPR said:
You obviously havent watched the super class cars in this century. A foot brake racer will never win a event full of box cars.. Let me explain it to you. First you stage when both cars light the second bulb the guy turns on the delay box which launches the car at the .4 second mark, It also activates the throttle stop. Then the car launches at about 1/2 throttle it rolls out to the 60 mark the throttle stop controller will slowly turn off the throttle stop. This takes the traction problem away and the car speeds to a almost perfect 9.90 at a 160+ miles per hour. How the hell is a footbrake racer gonna beat that? When elctronics launch the car, control throttle to prevent spinning and basically time the run? All you have to do is get it all timed in right.[/quote

I never said anything about no tranny brake, of course I would expect a race car to use a tranny brake (unless you are running a foot brake class) but a throttle stop is a crutch. A real racer can control the throttle with his foot and doesn't need a computer to do it for him.
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All this being said, if you are going to make an attempt at super gas racing, then you need to be able to do these few things very well. First, you need a car that can react "red" every run. Then be able to back it down. Either with delay box or other ways. Next, you need car that will run 9.90 in any weather condition or track condition. Then you need to be able to "drive th big end". Judging cars coming up on you at 160+ mph is not a game easily learned. All this can be done with a lot of seat time and perserverence, good equipment,and good records(log book, weather station,etc.) There are a few guys out there still competitive with slow mph cars. They are usually dialed very tight and trust their setups, and know the stripe well. It ain't easy, but it is worth a try. Let us know how you do.
 
Bickel Motors said:
To clear up reaction time question. As an example, when you see that a guy has a .423 reaction time, that means he was .023 from a perfect .400 reaction,(using a 4 tenths pro tree). I think you may be thinking back to the old way they used to represent reaction times on the old chrondek style systems. I remember when the time tickets showed your true reaction time as say .121 or as we knew it, .621 on a 5 tenths tree.(which meant, even back then, you were slow on the light). I too think electronics in bracket racing takes away from the true challenge of trying to make your car run the number. But electronics are so embedded in racing today that it is here to stay. I run no-box classes when I race. Much more challenging. I think many guys feel the same way, as those classes are the biggest classes just about everywhere you go in bracket racing weekly events. Although I have many friends that run electronics, and I don't thinktheir efforts or results on the track mean any less. Jus my humble opinion.
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I understand what you are saying about the R/T's and delay boxes, but enen with the delay boxes they should throttle with their foot.
 
Use common sense, If the " ideal" set up was to race NOT using a delay box and throttle stops, That is what racer would run and win with. I haven't seen a competitive racer go that route.
 
I understand what you are saying about the R/T's and delay boxes, but enen with the delay boxes they should throttle with their foot.
They have that type racing, it's call Nostalgia Super Stock.
 
mopar4406bbl said:
HOTMOPR said:
You obviously havent watched the super class cars in this century. A foot brake racer will never win a event full of box cars.. Let me explain it to you. First you stage when both cars light the second bulb the guy turns on the delay box which launches the car at the .4 second mark, It also activates the throttle stop. Then the car launches at about 1/2 throttle it rolls out to the 60 mark the throttle stop controller will slowly turn off the throttle stop. This takes the traction problem away and the car speeds to a almost perfect 9.90 at a 160+ miles per hour. How the hell is a footbrake racer gonna beat that? When elctronics launch the car, control throttle to prevent spinning and basically time the run? All you have to do is get it all timed in right.[/quote

I never said anything about no tranny brake, of course I would expect a race car to use a tranny brake (unless you are running a foot brake class) but a throttle stop is a crutch. A real racer can control the throttle with his foot and doesn't need a computer to do it for him.
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Dude! this is a thread about super gas.. Is that not a race car? 99.9 % of super gas cars have delay boxes, transbrakes and throttle stops..
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I have seen the index cars up here at our track, MHDRA in Canada, and I'll tell you they are NOT ENTERTAINING FOR THE CROWD!

Launch hard, big wheelie then pop fart, pop fart, then baaaaaa 9.90 or damn close. I personally think there are the most boring thing I have ever seen on the track, I would rather watch sportsman class bracket racing all day they throttle boggers.

Drivers have told me that they are quite exciting for the racers though, back and forth a few times down the track, but the fans don't really see that.

The other thing I don't like is to see 80,000 + $ cars with their trailers etc and all they do is that??? 9.90 !!

Before you jump down my throat I know they do 160 mph but why not build a 10.30 sec car and compete in that class.

I know it is more consistant when you have a faster car but you have to admit it looks like crap after you launch and fall on your face for 60 or so feet. Most fans don't get it.



I love throttle boggers though, at least it gives me a chance to get up and go get something to eat before the next round of Top Alcohol!!
 
I have read all the posts on this subject and I now see why there are so many classes to race!!!!! Box, no box, bracket, index, footbrake, transbrake. I personally have ran in both S/G and S/ST and all types of brackets. Its all racing and with so many classes we all get to do what we enjoy!!!! Smell the sweet fragrance of traction compound when they spray the track and the smoke from the burnouts.. If I could only bottle those two I'd be rich and could afford a third race car!!!!!!!

8)
 
HOTMOPR said:
mopar4406bbl said:
Dude! this is a thread about super gas.. Is that not a race car? 99.9 % of super gas cars have delay boxes, transbrakes and throttle stops..
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throttle stops = Goofy racing there is nothing super about a class that allows throttle stops, they should change the name. S/G sounds like a class for men to race in, not a bunch of geeks.
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Just my opinion... I can understand having to build a car for an index. I think it has just morphed past what was originally intended. You build a car to run a second at least under the index because you have to have the mph on the big end, and it has to have that power in any weather. I don't believe that much has to do with anything but electronics and engineering now. For some, that's the coolness factor. I'd rather see that car run all out to 8.90s and slow down in the heat. It gets to be IMO fake and boring to see all that power bolt off the line and then glide...
 
SGBARACUDA and hotmopr said how I feel. I raced S/G in the late '70s up until about'85 with a full round tube chassis Corvette. I had a high dollar 331 Pro Stock engine in it (very identical to what Jenkins ran) with a Doug Nash 5-speed. It was a 4-link. It was the most expensive race car I ever built and raced. When it started (S/G), it was fun. You got to race a car just like yours heads up, like those great early days of modified. There were no throttle stops, delay boxes, 2-steps and most automatic cars were TH 400s, not powerglides. I tried to organize a Super Gas racers organization to better position us financially. I owned an advertising agency at the time and so had the money and resources to put it together with all the collateral materials: membership cards, T-shirts, radio promo tapes, etc. I contacted everyone I knew in the Tampa Bay area with a S/G car and they were enthsiastically "in". I set up a banquet meeting at Richard Earl's Suncoast Performance Shop and every body showed up and it looked like all was set. The deal was to guarantee a track owner 8 cars that could run 9.90s in heads up match racing. The track would guarantee a specific payout to the owners of the 8 cars and it didn't matter who won. It just doesn't make sense to go out with a car you have $40,000 invested in (in 1978 dollars) to win $50.....and to make it worse....have to pay to get in!!! Do you see pro football players "paying to play"? Hell no, they make the money. Well, I got 8 people comitted to do it at Sunshine Dragstrip in Clearwater with Art Malone. I showed up and so did 2 other cars. The rest were a no show and left me there looking like a fool. Malone said, "Pat, where are the cars? We promoted this with radio ads and posters every where and the place is packed with people demanding to see the show." The announcer explained what had happened and the crowd booed us. We did agree that the 3 of us would match race for the crowd and we did. Art Malone was not obligated to pay because we were in violation of the contract. That was the end of that. I continued to race at Sunshine and Bradenton. I ran the Snowbirds and the Gatornationals and made trips into Georgia. My trouble was always breaking out. The Vette did 1.20 60-ft times. It would go faster that 9.90 with the brakes locked up crossing the finish line. I took the tunnel ram off and put on a single box stock 750 and it still went 9.46 and 146 mph without lifting. I hated the electronics, box controlled air shifted powerglides, etc. I never won a dime with that car because of breakouts. It got to where it wasn't fun anymore. I sold it and went into street rods. That car is still racing today down in Bradenton. It did have one moment of glory, however. Steve Reyes, the photographer for Popular Hotrodding, came to my house to take some pictures of the Vette. My old friend, Barry Grant, (Demon Carburetors) was there too. The car was featured on the cover of the June '82 issue and the story featured a full color center spread. S/G racing has become very expensive and there are some really great drivers. You are right when say the rich guys have the advantage. I guess I'm just an old dinosaur who wants racing to be like the old days...two matched cars, heads up, no breakout, no electronics! Back when we used to do it, the starting line was packed and the black guys were betting fists full of money. Those were the good old days. F-that nitrous stuff too.
Pat
 
Well Guys I Use My T,stop As A T Enhanser , And Air Shifter. After I Stage I.press The Button To Turn On Computer And The T,stop Releses, My Foot Goes To Floor And There Is Nothing There . I Release The Button On First Yellow Lt I Have My Delay Set For Whatever Tree I'm Runing And Its Like A Explosion When It Leaves By Itself Rright Befor I See The Green. Oh I Have Frt Line Lock Incroperated With All Of This So It Doesn't Creep Foward. I Can Run Whitin .04 Every Run And If Need To Slow Down You Just Let Off Gas A Little . Or During Timr Runs Adjust The T,stop So Throtle Dose Or Doesn'topen As Much This Is Good For Any Of The Differant Gas/comp And Bracket Classes. Go Racing Tonight I'm Going To Lakeland Fl. Tonight Good Luck Gary
 
to explain a little more on use of box my dart carries frt ties all the way through 1st and you need to be holding wheels stright or car rooms one way or other so you have to be driving and don't even think about letting wheel go. if so you will miss shift, thats why I use a air shifter. and all this stoff doesn't take away from the driving of car just helps you be more safe. GARY
 
Gary, you sound like a happy man and for that, I am happy for you! You are STILL having fun and doing it with a fast Mopar thank goodness. So long as you have the wallet to buy the electronics, are proficient with them, and YOU ARE HAVING FUN, go for it! Maybe I'll see you at Lakeland some time. I live in Citrus County.
PAt
 
Thru the '97-'98 seasons I went to 8 Div 3 NHRA races in SST. Had a blast and run at least 2 rounds and usually 3 or 4 in all but one race. Run dead-on 10.900, once, which thrilled me to death and had absolutely ZERO electronics in the car. Did run a transbrake but, a Moroso 7.60 front tire almost made that mandatory, even on a .5 tree!!
Lots of times I wish I had'nt stopped racing and I look forward to the day Baby Girl is done with school so I can go back to school'n the boys and girls at the track.
Super Street is still affordable if you don't give in to the BS of electronic racing. Gotta race the car enough to know what it's gonna run with the current conditions and you gotta be able to see in a mirror and race the fast guys at your game not their's!!!
 
\\:D/well gentlemen if you want to race on week ends and pay for your habit you will need electronics , for instence the the track I race at pays 100% entey fees + 300.00 in Pro/Super Pro the track average weedend 1st pl. 650.00and up to 1200.00 pays to 8th place. now if you want to go out and wear out your car, and not get anything for it so be it! I was a very good foot brake racer but when the box came in, to win you needed the box. And most of all I like the money . it pays for the habit so go ahead and lose! I'L see you at the bank HA HA! I can race every weekend because of the box, withtout maybe 0nce every 2 mo. good luck Gary
 
hi I've been reading about the electronics and throttle stop s/pro and s/g here. Its possible to beat those cars. At our local track, I run s/pro with a 4 spd manual stocker. I cut very good lights and run on my dial. I have won against them 7 sec to 10;sec cars.it comes down to the driver. electronics does not mean an automatic win. btw , I shift with a clutch.
 
GOOD FOR YOU PERFACAR, I have always though a race car should have a clutch. NObody wants to drive a race car anymore they just want to steer one.
 
Perfacar's success brought about a movement to stop non electronic cars from racing in super/pro. The pro drivers shamed the box guy's enough that the grumbling went underground. Heated discussions, just short of fisticuffs, occured off track. The controversy continues. When Perfacar's Duster comes to the water box, the spectators come to their feet and the box guy's start grumbling. We don't want him back in pro bracket.
 
Ladies and gentlemen I've been racing drag cars since the 1950's, it seems some of you can't put enough togeather to put a super comp or super gas car on the track . these cars run 7.10 and 9.9 index, most of the tracks take the the top 12 to 32 cars closes to the index to compete in the finals. what pisses me off is some of you think you can take your 13.00 second car out to the track and beat them, give me a brake. and you say its not exciting to watch these cars compete.Do you think it's exciting to watch a 12.00 sec. foot braker? Yes these guys have electronics, and they use them, if you don't like it, shove it! if you don't like that, take up a petiction to change it . well we don't have to worry about that you have never voted for anything in your life . yes I'm standing up for the super gas people , Iv'e raced a super comp funnie car ran 7.10 and yes I had a box , if you think you can drive one of these cars with one hand on wheel . you are misstaking. Oh and you need a licenes to compete, if the bunch of you think you can beat the guys with the box you can tri me out on sat. nights at lakeland mototsports park. and the car is a automatic , I love the challange Do you know how much it caust to race one of these cars, LOTS!!!! and as for the clutch and shifting have you watched the pro stock cars, they use a air shifter and clutch set up watch the on board cameras at nationals ,you can see the shifter shifting by itself. Now I don't here any of the super gas people complaining about the other classes what is your problem!! Kiss MY SUPER GAS. I LOVE THIS FORUM BECAUSE I CAN'T BELEAVE WHAT I'M READING HERE.
 
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