I also got a couple of different leads on a Magnum 360. One seems to be OK but was ran without oil for 20 mins while the other is simply labeled as Free due to being "bad". I think either way, they would need a rebuild for sure. Kinda leaning to towards the free one but its about 2 hours drive one way to get it.
Swapped to Muscle - 75 Duster Daily build
- Thread starter Chambec
- Start date
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DionR
Well-Known Member
Little bit of an update.
Decided to tear into the dash to see what was going on with the gauges. Before starting, I took a look from underneath to see if anything was obvious... Well one thing was. The speedo cable was not hooked up. That is one gauge that is figured out. Started taking off the screws for the dash and worked on the wiper switch and light switch. Got the wiper switch out but not the light switch. Dropped the steering column down a bit and got enough of the dash out to get the plug for the light switch unplugged. Also managed to get the Amp meter gauge wires off as well...
View attachment 1715532639View attachment 1715532640
Got the dash out and it just didnt make sense. After reading and looking through similar posts on here... I noticed that a ground was not on the cluster or anywhere in the dash. I thought that there was supposed to be one so I added one. Got it temporarily hooked up and tested with the amp meter temp bypassed. Still nothing. No fuel, temp, etc. Maybe I added the ground to the wrong point on cluster? I am not sure. Im really tempted at getting a new bezel and gauge set and going from there. I guess its possible that the cluster is bad. I will have to do some more research on how to test a cluster.
Also, talked to the wife and got her on board on getting some of the larger ticket items due to "safety"lol. This means that she is game for getting steering, suspension and brakes for the duster. Going over to Dr.Diffs site, here is a breakdown on what I think I should get to meet those "safety" requirements:
Unfortunately, I am not able to get the 10.7" Rear Disc kit as its currently sold out. I am looking at some other kits but not sure which one to go with for the rear disc brake swap. Looked at the eBay kits, SSBC, TSM, ScareBird, Wilwood, Pirate Jack but just not sure which one to go with... Any suggestions? Trying to get something that will fit using the 16" wheels that I have so I am thinking 11" or smaller.
- 11.75" Disc Brake Slider Caliper Brackets
- Rotors - Drilled/Slotted/Plated (Pair) - 11.75"
- Front Wheel Bearings '73+ A/B/E/F/M/J/R Body
- Aluminum Master Cylinder Kit - 15/16"
- Axle Pkg Stock Length Mopar 5X4 1/2" Bolt Pattern (pair)- A-body
The housing grounds to the dash frame, that's why you don't see a ground. Usually people have problems because they plug everything in to test it and don't screw the cluster down and then nothing works. But if you did a temp ground, then that shouldn't be the issue.
Also remember that the amp gauge has to be hooked up to try anything. Without that, there is no power in the car. I've bolted the amp gauge wire ends together before to test stuff, just remember they are always hot and should be wrapped just so they don't accidentally spark.
Guessing it is the voltage regulator, the three pin push in thing at the middle top. Pretty sure if that goes, none of the gauges work, but not absolutely certain. I might have a spare, or you could build a solid state one for a couple of bucks and avoid issue down the road even if it doesn't fix this one.
Reminds me that I might need to look at my regulator, might fix some of the issues I am fighting with.
DionR
Well-Known Member
You could do the Jeep Liberty rear brake swap.
Would take some time to source the parts at the yard (been seeing them at Pull and Save), and you would have to get the brackets machined.
Not a fan of solid rear disks, but I used Grand Cherokee brakes on my Duster and that is what they use. I expect for a normal run around car, they are more than enough.
At the same time, I don't think you would see a marked difference doing from drums to disks in the rear. Tim Werner (Red Brick) ran rear drums on his car for a couple of years and it wasn't until he was hitting 150 on the straights that he swapped (at least that is what I remember).
Would take some time to source the parts at the yard (been seeing them at Pull and Save), and you would have to get the brackets machined.
Not a fan of solid rear disks, but I used Grand Cherokee brakes on my Duster and that is what they use. I expect for a normal run around car, they are more than enough.
At the same time, I don't think you would see a marked difference doing from drums to disks in the rear. Tim Werner (Red Brick) ran rear drums on his car for a couple of years and it wasn't until he was hitting 150 on the straights that he swapped (at least that is what I remember).
Yea, I did two separate bypasses. I did the bolt through both the ends of the wires of the amp gauge (you can see it in the picture) and also, i did run a wire from the Alt to the starter solenoid as well with still gives power to the car (this is my temp wire to get the car power initially that I have not properly fixed).
Is this the voltage regulator that you are referring to?
DionR
Well-Known Member
Yep, that's the one.
DionR
Well-Known Member
Here's an article - Vintage Chrysler electrical repairs and updates (part 2)
Plenty of write up's on he internet, I just wanted a sample.
Plenty of write up's on he internet, I just wanted a sample.
For a somewhat simplified rear end and disc brake setup, have you considered using an 8.8 Ford out of an Explorer. They are typically equipped with a track lok diff, and 3.73 or 4.10 gears, plus disc brakes, and 4.5 in bolt circle. There are several threads on here that detail the process of using one. Just a thought.
Your build is very interesting and it is really cool that the kids are interested and involved.
Your build is very interesting and it is really cool that the kids are interested and involved.
I like that idea... A lot actually. I am going down tonight to get the free one. Ill get more details on that. It comes with the 46re from the 01 Dodge ram that it came from but will see if I can sell that to get the other one. Ill know more when I get it and start tearing into it. Im hoping that its bad due to the common cracked head issue but we shall see soon.
Thank you! I appreciate it!!
I have looked into that swap and it really interests me. I have been looking around to see if there were some that are available without having to pull one from my local JY but they are kinda treating them like gold. There is one on Craigslist that is 50% complete with axles, carrier and housing (no brakes) that the guy wants like $1200 or $1300 for. crazy! All because its painted. Otherwise they are the Ranger versions that, after the bit of research that I have done, are the weaker ones with like 28? splines and drums.
Another limitation that I have is the lack of tools/options in my garage. I dont have 220 to be able to use a welder so I am limited in what I can do. I know I could probably look into getting a shop that can cut, narrow and weld the tubes back together along with welding the perches in the right spot. I just havent looked into it enough to see the cost difference. I would like to see about keeping it a bit wider, closer to the specs of a early B-Body and from my understanding, a cut and narrowed 8.8 is the same size as a A-Body. Though, I may be wrong on that.
DionR
Well-Known Member
Thank you! I appreciate it!!
I have looked into that swap and it really interests me. I have been looking around to see if there were some that are available without having to pull one from my local JY but they are kinda treating them like gold. There is one on Craigslist that is 50% complete with axles, carrier and housing (no brakes) that the guy wants like $1200 or $1300 for. crazy! All because its painted. Otherwise they are the Ranger versions that, after the bit of research that I have done, are the weaker ones with like 28? splines and drums.
Another limitation that I have is the lack of tools/options in my garage. I dont have 220 to be able to use a welder so I am limited in what I can do. I know I could probably look into getting a shop that can cut, narrow and weld the tubes back together along with welding the perches in the right spot. I just havent looked into it enough to see the cost difference. I would like to see about keeping it a bit wider, closer to the specs of a early B-Body and from my understanding, a cut and narrowed 8.8 is the same size as a A-Body. Though, I may be wrong on that.
If you want to shoot for the early B-Body width (I would), grab an Explorer axle and do perches. The Explorer axle is already the right width. I would look at Pull and Save, there are usually 8-10 there at a time and they are only $166 + $15 core. But you have to pull it yourself.
The issue with the Explorer axle is the offset pinion, but other's have done it and probably no more than tweaking the PS muffler so the driveline doesn't rub on it.
Just to make sure that I am understanding, are you saying that I could swap in the 8.8 without cutting it down? If that is the case.... its highly tempting now....
DionR
Well-Known Member
Yep. Pretty sure they are 59.5" overall, same as a '66 B-Body.
I need to do some research then. See how bad the offset is and about the perches... I have some perches already but still dont have a way to weld them on if i needed to go that option. hmmm....
DionR
Well-Known Member
Left Axle is 30.6875" long - https://www.randysworldwide.com/product/ya-f880015/
Right axle is 27.8125" long - https://www.randysworldwide.com/product/ya-f880014/
Cross shaft is .875" - https://www.randysworldwide.com/product/yspxp-026/
That puts it at 59.375" wide before putting brakes in it. With drums, I think that puts it right at 59.9" wide, but I expect a rotor will make that 1/8" wider or so.
Based on Moparts on the Web - Main Index the 65-67 B-Body 8 3/4" is 59.5" drum to drum.
Not sure on the offset beyond the above math that the axle lengths are different by 2.875". I know it has been done without too much trouble so the offset can't be too terrible.
I looked at doing this a long time ago. Even tripped over a Mustang 8.8 housing for cheap that I bought. But in the end, didn't follow through (don't remember why though). It's been so long now, not sure where I would even find the notes I took or the posts I made.
I ended up settling for an 8.25" out of an F-Body to get the width I need for the 17" wheels I am running.
Right axle is 27.8125" long - https://www.randysworldwide.com/product/ya-f880014/
Cross shaft is .875" - https://www.randysworldwide.com/product/yspxp-026/
That puts it at 59.375" wide before putting brakes in it. With drums, I think that puts it right at 59.9" wide, but I expect a rotor will make that 1/8" wider or so.
Based on Moparts on the Web - Main Index the 65-67 B-Body 8 3/4" is 59.5" drum to drum.
Not sure on the offset beyond the above math that the axle lengths are different by 2.875". I know it has been done without too much trouble so the offset can't be too terrible.
I looked at doing this a long time ago. Even tripped over a Mustang 8.8 housing for cheap that I bought. But in the end, didn't follow through (don't remember why though). It's been so long now, not sure where I would even find the notes I took or the posts I made.
I ended up settling for an 8.25" out of an F-Body to get the width I need for the 17" wheels I am running.
moparmat2000
Well-Known Member
Nice project. I have 15x7 steelies from chrysler M body fifth Avenues going on my sons 69 will be black w chrome lugnuts, and some of the same in body color with dog dishes on my 67. Think I payed $8 per wheel lol. Then blasted primered and painted them. 15" rims are what you need to fit an 8.8 rear with disc brakes. Plus if you upgrade to larger diameter 78-79 cordoba front discs you will need 15s at minimum to be able to clear the calipers. Heres pix.
Last fifth ave rim pic is fresh from pick n pull. I have seen these center rim webs on 15x6 rim hoops so take a tape measure with a you and compare the depth of the offset to get 15x7s. Final pic is that 2002 town car aluminum donut spare. It was never even used. The black w chrome lug nuts is like a drag pak look for cheap. Tires are a 225-60R15. A 2002 lincoln town car aluminum donut spare fits the spare well, has same bolt pattern, and is same height as a 225-60R15. It clears the front and rear discs no problem, and the spare tire board and trunk mat will lay nice in flat over it. Dont mind the hacked out wheel tubs, I am reversing a minitub hack job.
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Yea! Those are similar to the 15x7's that I was referring to! I have a set of those and then the set of new 16's. Though, my steelies didnt come off of 5th ave. They dont have the extra holes across the lugs.
Got a few packages in the mail today. I got a good chunk of the electronics for the interior. Brake switch, turn signal switch, headlight dimmer switch, headlight/dash light switch all in hopes to fix some of the electrical gremlins.
Also, I scored on the 360 magnum that I mentioned. It was the one that was listed as "bad". Reached out to the guy and he mentioned that he put in a new set of lifters in hopes to fix a "tick" in it but it didnt help. Its coming from cyl 8 or 6. He pulled the engine and trans and replaced both. I walked away with the 360 and 46re... for FREE. Super stoked about that. Tomorrow I gotta move the Hemi off the stand and temporarily transplant it in the engine bay of my 78 truck to put the 360 on the stand.
I also read the 38 page sticky on the Ford 8.8 swap. Really leaning towards that at this option. I might go to my local JY tomorrow and see what is available and *maybe* just pull one. I would keep the stock width and run it as is for the time being if I were to go that route. I have so much research to do on this and the build I want to do with the 360. Once I start tearing into it, maybe this weekend, ill know more.
Also, I scored on the 360 magnum that I mentioned. It was the one that was listed as "bad". Reached out to the guy and he mentioned that he put in a new set of lifters in hopes to fix a "tick" in it but it didnt help. Its coming from cyl 8 or 6. He pulled the engine and trans and replaced both. I walked away with the 360 and 46re... for FREE. Super stoked about that. Tomorrow I gotta move the Hemi off the stand and temporarily transplant it in the engine bay of my 78 truck to put the 360 on the stand.
I also read the 38 page sticky on the Ford 8.8 swap. Really leaning towards that at this option. I might go to my local JY tomorrow and see what is available and *maybe* just pull one. I would keep the stock width and run it as is for the time being if I were to go that route. I have so much research to do on this and the build I want to do with the 360. Once I start tearing into it, maybe this weekend, ill know more.
Today I played the engine shuffle. I took 360 off of the cherry picker, took the Hemi off of the engine stand, then put the Hemi "temporarily" into my 78 Dodge truck to free up the engine stand.
Got the 360 on the engine stand and tore into it. I was initially going to just take off the valve covers and intake... then I was like while I am here, lets take off the heads and rockers.. To my surprise, the cylinders are still have visible crosshatching on all of the cylinders. Well got that done and then thought that while I am at it, ill take out the lifters... Well to my surprise, half of the lifters have been replaced. This piqued my curiosity. Rotated the crank a few times to check out the cam.... it was BAD.. I am guessing that is the "tick" that the previous owner stated that he heard. It was really scored and pitted bad.
Then I decided to take off the harmonic balancer and timing cover to get the cam out. The timing chain is in really good shape. Almost no slack in the chain. Not something that I would suspect on a 194k mile engine. Got that done and took the cam out... checked over the cam some more... like half of the lobes are toasted... Checked the cam bearings and they are really rough. I really doubt that they are supposed to be that rough. Checked the cam side and they dont seem to be that bad.
I then rotated the crank a few times without the cam, feeling for an roughness or signs that a bearing is bad. Didnt seem like it was.
Overall, either it was really well taking care of or somewhere along the line, the engine was rebuilt or replaced with a new(er) one. At this point, its just down to a shortblock and not sure if I want to tear into any more but feel that I should to check the rod and main bearings. I am kinda half tempted to just replace the cam and timing chain and throw it all back together. Though, with how bad (at least from my perspective) the cam bearings are, I dont think it would be that wise to do so.
Another thing that I did yesterday was check my local JY and see what they had for Ford 8.8's out of 96-01 Explorers. They have like 10 and 9 that are fully together. They also have a ton of Rangers, mustangs, and crown vics/Grand Marquis(?). After looking at some of the crown vics, I noticed that they have vented brakes whereas the Explorers have the solid rotors. I was curious on if the backing plates are compatible with each other as I would prefer to have the vented rear brakes. Turns out, if my research is correct, that the crown vic brakes will NOT work on Explorer rears due to having the larger "Torino" style bearing. BUT they might fit onto the rears of the rangers as they have the smaller bearings like the crown vics. This piqued my interest as I wonder if I would be able to get the 11.7" rear vented brakes and throw them onto the ranger rear. While I understand that they are a "weaker" axle as they are 28 spline vs that of the 31 spline explorer, I think that it may be livable for the time being. It is a daily after all. More research must be done.........
To be continued....
Got the 360 on the engine stand and tore into it. I was initially going to just take off the valve covers and intake... then I was like while I am here, lets take off the heads and rockers.. To my surprise, the cylinders are still have visible crosshatching on all of the cylinders. Well got that done and then thought that while I am at it, ill take out the lifters... Well to my surprise, half of the lifters have been replaced. This piqued my curiosity. Rotated the crank a few times to check out the cam.... it was BAD.. I am guessing that is the "tick" that the previous owner stated that he heard. It was really scored and pitted bad.
Then I decided to take off the harmonic balancer and timing cover to get the cam out. The timing chain is in really good shape. Almost no slack in the chain. Not something that I would suspect on a 194k mile engine. Got that done and took the cam out... checked over the cam some more... like half of the lobes are toasted... Checked the cam bearings and they are really rough. I really doubt that they are supposed to be that rough. Checked the cam side and they dont seem to be that bad.
I then rotated the crank a few times without the cam, feeling for an roughness or signs that a bearing is bad. Didnt seem like it was.
Overall, either it was really well taking care of or somewhere along the line, the engine was rebuilt or replaced with a new(er) one. At this point, its just down to a shortblock and not sure if I want to tear into any more but feel that I should to check the rod and main bearings. I am kinda half tempted to just replace the cam and timing chain and throw it all back together. Though, with how bad (at least from my perspective) the cam bearings are, I dont think it would be that wise to do so.
Another thing that I did yesterday was check my local JY and see what they had for Ford 8.8's out of 96-01 Explorers. They have like 10 and 9 that are fully together. They also have a ton of Rangers, mustangs, and crown vics/Grand Marquis(?). After looking at some of the crown vics, I noticed that they have vented brakes whereas the Explorers have the solid rotors. I was curious on if the backing plates are compatible with each other as I would prefer to have the vented rear brakes. Turns out, if my research is correct, that the crown vic brakes will NOT work on Explorer rears due to having the larger "Torino" style bearing. BUT they might fit onto the rears of the rangers as they have the smaller bearings like the crown vics. This piqued my interest as I wonder if I would be able to get the 11.7" rear vented brakes and throw them onto the ranger rear. While I understand that they are a "weaker" axle as they are 28 spline vs that of the 31 spline explorer, I think that it may be livable for the time being. It is a daily after all. More research must be done.........
To be continued....
DionR
Well-Known Member
If you want vented rear disks and the same or similar width to a ‘67 or so B-Body, you might look for an 8.8 out of a Mustang. Been too many years, but I think you want one out of a Fox body?
But there are two issues with that axle. There are a bunch of brackets to cut off before you can weld spring perches on, and they are (stock) a 4 bolt axle.
I think the 5 bolt axle conversions are pretty cheap, but adds cost to the swap.
Nice thing is, the pinion is centered so no issues with the driveline hitting the mufflers.
Pretty sure a Crown Vic axle is too wide. Seems to me that there is a Ranger axle that would work (can’t remember if it is width or spline count though), but they are a rare as an A-Body 8.75.
Food for thought.
But there are two issues with that axle. There are a bunch of brackets to cut off before you can weld spring perches on, and they are (stock) a 4 bolt axle.
I think the 5 bolt axle conversions are pretty cheap, but adds cost to the swap.
Nice thing is, the pinion is centered so no issues with the driveline hitting the mufflers.
Pretty sure a Crown Vic axle is too wide. Seems to me that there is a Ranger axle that would work (can’t remember if it is width or spline count though), but they are a rare as an A-Body 8.75.
Food for thought.
94 and up Mustangs are 5 X 4.5 bolt circle. All fox body are 4 lug, 1979 to 1993, and all had drum brakes IIRC. I think the Rangers are 28 spline
Yea, after thinking about it and the research and reading that I have done on the forums, it seems that for now, it would be too much of a hassle get the right parts and what not.
I am thinking to keep it simple yet strong, I will just go with an Explorer rear and be done with it. The Explorer disks should be plenty for what I am doing.... at least for now lol
DionR
Well-Known Member
That where I ended up landing in the end. Solid rotors are fine for now and I will worry about more later.
Got a little bit of progress made on the Duster yesterday.
Got the steering wheel pulled off to replace the turn signal switch as one of the tangs was broken for the turn signal to stay in place. I was really over complicating the process as it took me like 2 hours to swap but its now done. unfortunately, it was not a direct fit as the hazard portion of the switch wouldnt fit in the slot on the steering column. Not a big deal after taking 20 mins and a file to it.
While the steering wheel was disabled and unmounted, I also replaced the brake light switch as the brake lights wouldnt work. That was fun as well... Figured out how to adjust that once done. Also, turns out that one of the wires wasnt even connected to the brake switch. Thanks to DionR, I was able to find that wire and get that all connected. Now I have brake lights! Small victory. I also replaced the heavily corroded dimmer switch on the floor. Now its not always on high beam mode lol.
Buttoned everything up and tested to see if the turn signals would work. Nothing. Zip. Nada. I am guessing that the power runs through the dash like most of the rest of the interior. So I broke down and ordered the Solid state IVR and a set of LED cluster lights. We shall see if that works to get the rest of the dash working plus the turn signals.
On another note, I am about to order some parts to rebuild the front end and was looking at the PST C-body tie-rod end upgrade. How beneficial is that? Is it significant? Also, outside of the tie rods and adjusters, is anything else needed or is it a direct fit?
Got the steering wheel pulled off to replace the turn signal switch as one of the tangs was broken for the turn signal to stay in place. I was really over complicating the process as it took me like 2 hours to swap but its now done. unfortunately, it was not a direct fit as the hazard portion of the switch wouldnt fit in the slot on the steering column. Not a big deal after taking 20 mins and a file to it.
While the steering wheel was disabled and unmounted, I also replaced the brake light switch as the brake lights wouldnt work. That was fun as well... Figured out how to adjust that once done. Also, turns out that one of the wires wasnt even connected to the brake switch. Thanks to DionR, I was able to find that wire and get that all connected. Now I have brake lights! Small victory. I also replaced the heavily corroded dimmer switch on the floor. Now its not always on high beam mode lol.
Buttoned everything up and tested to see if the turn signals would work. Nothing. Zip. Nada. I am guessing that the power runs through the dash like most of the rest of the interior. So I broke down and ordered the Solid state IVR and a set of LED cluster lights. We shall see if that works to get the rest of the dash working plus the turn signals.
On another note, I am about to order some parts to rebuild the front end and was looking at the PST C-body tie-rod end upgrade. How beneficial is that? Is it significant? Also, outside of the tie rods and adjusters, is anything else needed or is it a direct fit?
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