Talk me into or out of Holley Terminator X

[TT5.9mag]

Aftermarket EFI has not been perfected like the Factory EFI.

I beg to differ. There are ECUs on the market that can do more than any factory ecu with regards to engine controlability. The communication aspect between different modules isn’t there yet like OEM stuff but really isnt needed. Some do have CAN networks that rival manufacturer level stuff. Some of the common ones by Haltech, Holley dominator, and the former AEM infinity (now owned by Holley which is why their tech is so advanced now) as well as a few others would blow your mind with how capable they are. I’ve tuned (and currently own and tune) both factory ECUs with programs like HP Tuners as well as AEM infinity and have done a couple Holley ECUs for other people and for what we are interested in with our hotrods, the aftermarket efi stuff is incredible. If you break down and don’t know how to read a datalog or figure out which sensor isn’t communicating with the ecu that’s on you, It’s super easy comparatively speaking.

 

[tonysrt]

I've got an 05 Ram that is 20 years old. It has 4 oxygen sensors, one just went bad and I was lucky enough to replace the right one. In the 20 years never failed to start. I had one EFI go bad on a 71 Cuda and it was the ECU that went bad, again truck flat bedded home. Next day started fine, ran it, shut it off refused to start. Next day same thing and refused to start. So when somebody can say that after market is as dependable as factory EFI I might buy it. Without EFI it's either no spark or no fuel and easy enough to figure out. A lot of us guys here are old school and never got in the new Technology era.

 

[TT5.9mag]

I've got an 05 Ram that is 20 years old. It has 4 oxygen sensors, one just went bad and I was lucky enough to replace the right one. In the 20 years never failed to start. I had one EFI go bad on a 71 Cuda and it was the ECU that went bad, again truck flat bedded home. Next day started fine, ran it, shut it off refused to start. Next day same thing and refused to start. So when somebody can say that after market is as dependable as factory EFI I might buy it. Without EFI it's either no spark or no fuel and easy enough to figure out. A lot of us guys here are old school and never got in the new Technology era.

What ecu was on the Cuda? I didn’t say “all” aftermarket ECUs were good.

 

[67Dart273]

Your exaggerating what I said. I said the tbi systems have the same shortcomings as a carburetor. What I mean by that, is wet flow. Not concerned about dirty hands and all the other gibberish. And a novice will spend a BUNCH more time learning to tune with those systems.

No I did not. "Wet manifold" is not a real problem. Dirty hands are not "gibberish." A novice who knows little about carbs may be on quite even footing between learning one over the other , especially if he/ she has grown up using computers.

 

[67Dart273]

The first time you get stuck and can't figure out what's wrong, you'll consider going back to a carb. Happened to me and I felt so helpless especially when the car was on the flatbed truck going back home. Aftermarket EFI has not been perfected like the Factory EFI.

LOL, well, modern OEM EFI will put you on a truck just as quick as aftermarket, if it quits. All it takes, EG is a dead fuel pump, which you cannot change, on the side of the road, because it's in the tank. Last three pumps I changed (different rigs) I pulled the bed

 

[Demonx2]

A throttle body style EFI has the same shortcomings of a carburetor. If your going EFI, the best route is multi port.

Ding, ding, ding....correct! This is why TBI did not last all that long on OEM engines. Couldn't get to PFI fast enough! Getting air distribution on an intake is hard enough. Getting the wet fuel flow in addition to the airflow is a whole 'nother world of development. So if you can get the air dist acceptable, then just shoot the fuel at the intake valve (PFI) and you'll be quite a bit ahead. (Of course, how to position/angle the injector is another significant development piece of work.) Or better yet, just inject the fuel into the chamber (direct injection or DI). This was done to increase the power output as the fuel no longer takes up the volume with the air going through the port/into the cyl (i.e. better volumetric efficiency), and there's no worry about fuel flow/distribution. DI also allowed the CR to be increased as the heat of vaporization also helps cool the chamber further enhancing fuel efficiency and power. And then you work on piston topography to get the flame propogation required to meet the emission standards required. Fun,fun, fun! And then...

Ahh...I digress. Sorry - back to the regularly scheduled programming! (I worked on this stuff for too many years on too many prod engines I suppose.)

 

[Dart Frog]

Yeah fuel injections fine if that's the route you want to go and want a pony up the money. It'll never look right on a muscle car and I wil most likely never have one on my 340s. I think I will have them put an 850 thermoquad in my hands when I die and surround my head with three Holley two barrels yeah that sounds cool. I'll just make sure none of you guys know where I'm buried .

 

[67_Slimer]

The first time you get stuck and can't figure out what's wrong, you'll consider going back to a carb. Happened to me and I felt so helpless especially when the car was on the flatbed truck going back home. Aftermarket EFI has not been perfected like the Factory EFI.

Never really thought about that. Great point. This was the cherry on top.

 

[67_Slimer]

Yeah fuel injections fine if that's the route you want to go and want a pony up the money. It'll never look right on a muscle car and I wil most likely never have one on my 340s. I think I will have them put an 850 thermoquad in my hands when I die and surround my head with three Holley two barrels yeah that sounds cool. I'll just make sure none of you guys know where I'm buried .

Yeah , I had a friend talk it up the other day so I had to put this post up to prove my point. They make fun of my "outdated ways" but I will always have a carburetor and a 4 speed. If I want Overdrive oe fuel injection , I'd buy a car from the 80s