Timing Gear Drive

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POS Dakota said:
Is there anything you have about setting up the gear clearance?
Or is this something that is what it is?

I ask because I believe the milodon for example is clearanced with a sheet of paper.

Thanks for posting this I am definitely interested now. I always was interested, but the trash talk on these is knee-deep.
110 bucks is a steal for it and I now see the auctions on ebay for them have better pictures of the parts too. They definitely look up to the task.

This may just be going on my 408.

P.S. Make sure you divert some of that bottomless budget of yours on a camcorder! I would love to hear the mad dart and this new one whining away! Just bought all the stuff I need from brian yesterday, so I need inspiration.8)
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Well the plate has the holes in it already so I don't know how you would clearance it. It is a FIXED unit with no adjustments that I know of.

No endless budget, just have ALOT of parts sitting around from a few years of collecting them.

I do have a camcorder...........just need to do it. haaaaaa

You got your stuff ordered up.......COOL!!!!!:cheers:
 
ne57 said:
Umm, pardon what might be a dumb question but...on the CAT don't I see several keyways on the crankgear? Wouldn't you use those for degreeing?
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Yep. That is what I did. It was a trial and error thing, but I was able to get my 106 centerline dead on.
 
spoke to Tim at For Hemis Only about a gear drive last week. He said unless you are running real high spring pressures there is no need for it, the money is better off spent else where. He said a good billet timing set will be fine. I know if I find the Milodon unit at a reasonable price I will buy it, just for the noise.
 
ne57 said:
Umm, pardon what might be a dumb question but...on the CAT don't I see several keyways on the crankgear? Wouldn't you use those for degreeing?
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Not a dumb question but here is my answer.........

The slots in the gear are in the EXACT same spot in relationship to the teeth on the gear no matter where you move it!!!! I don't know if they are all that way but mine was, Kind of STUIPID to have them there. I checked into that before I did the way I ended up doing it.
 
Mad Dart said:
Not a dumb question but here is my answer.........

The slots in the gear are in the EXACT same spot in relationship to the teeth on the gear no matter where you move it!!!! I don't know if they are all that way but mine was, Kind of STUIPID to have them there. I checked into that before I did the way I ended up doing it.
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That's odd, because mine were degreed different. Hmmm
 
Clearance pictures........I use Play Dough!! Good Use!

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I also drooled over a gear set at one time, I truly never found a good reason to install one though. I have replaced more perfectly good timing chain sets over the years than I care to remember, cause when you rebuild that is one thing you always freshen up.

Summit sells a real nice 8* adjustable double roller timing set for $75 - you can always add a tensioner if it makes you sleep better at night, but I doubt chain stretch/slack will adversely affect a street driven motor within the life of the build

But for my money, the Cloyes True Rollerbillet set gets the nod for $112.
 
Badart said:
That's odd, because mine were degreed different. Hmmm
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It made absolutely no sense to me. Would have been a lot easier to do it that way. Yes Trial and error I spent over 5 hours playing with it......but it is Dead on with the cam card!
 
Badart said:
For some of you that don't know, what do you think every Cummins has that pulls your race cars every weekend? Gear drive.
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Yeah but that Cummins only turns 3,000 or so RPMs with not much of a cam either. They were originally designed that way because the injection pump timing was run off of the front of the motor and in a diesel the timing of the injection is critical to not destroying an engine. These days it's handled electronically and they could conceivably use a timing belt, but that probably wouldn't be conducive to a 300,000 mile major repair expectation.

But hey, it's your car, run what you want. No one ever said fabbed sheet metal valve covers were necessary either but they sell the hell out of 'em.
 
Lol that's true. Honestly this is just my beater engine until I get my stroker done. It will get a double roller.
 
alright, time to bump this for some more Q&A!!!! lol

1. I only have three of the bolt holes in my block for the cam retainer plate. Should I drill and tap the other hole? Facing the front of the block, the bottom right hole doesnt exist.
This is a late mag block.

2. Is the crank gear a press-fit? mine seems to be very tight once it hits the "step" on the crank. This is not typical of chain sprockets I have used that slide on. Gonna try boiling it to see if it helps, but in the meantime...

3. Is the chamfer sufficient to properly mate to the shoulder on the crank with no interference? I ask this because this is why crank snouts break and I'm not going there!

4. looking through my drill bits...I have a 1/4 inch cobalt bit that looks perfect. 9/32 looks too small. I see the "proper" bit to tap a hole for 5/16 bolt is listed as a "type f" (bastards) no width listed.

Anyone? I am in the mock up phase here and my final assembly WILL GO SMOOTH with all these little bugs addressed during mock up.

P.S. Thank you Louis for your great threads. I lost it and had to dig through your threads to find it. Bookmarked!
 
I don't know about the 3 hole only question. If it were mine I would try to tap it as long as it was safe to do so. My crank sprocket was tight had to tap on it a little bit is all. One thing I had to do was counter sink the Allen bots behind the cam gear to clear it . I only sunk them by about 1/8th inch. You will need to do the other clearancing that I showed earlier in this thread. I also used red thread locker on everything.
 
I don't see there being a problem drilling the 4th hole in your magnum block for the cam retainer plate. As long as it doesn't go through any oil or water passages, your fine.

The size in decimal drill bit you need is: .2570 for a 5/16-18. Which is the "type f"...
 
mopardude318 said:
I don't see there being a problem drilling the 4th hole in your magnum block for the cam retainer plate. As long as it doesn't go through any oil or water passages, your fine.

The size in decimal drill bit you need is: .2570 for a 5/16-18. Which is the "type f"...
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Yeah! What he said......
 
Great thing, to find this thread.

I have the Cat gear drive, and it's going on my 408 as soon as the cam shows up. Should be next week.

Thanks MadDart for all of your input, it sounds kinda tricky but I'm sure I can make it work.

And the instructions that I have for the Cat does involve using a piece of paper to clearance the gears.
 
comoxian said:
Great thing, to find this thread.

I have the Cat gear drive, and it's going on my 408 as soon as the cam shows up. Should be next week.

Thanks MadDart for all of your input, it sounds kinda tricky but I'm sure I can make it work.

And the instructions that I have for the Cat does involve using a piece of paper to clearance the gears.
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I am glad someone got instructions, mine came with none!
 
Yesterday I did the basic install on my 392. Was gonna snap pics for you all but the batteries crapped out. I'll post some later this week maybe.

Mine came with no instructions, used the online version, which are so generalized that they are not real helpful. For instance, it says install the gear plate over the cam retainer. I don't know 318's so I don't know if the retainer setup is the same as 392. It didn't take long to see that it was not going to fit over the stock retainer plate, which is how I interpreted the instructions at first. On the 392 the gear plate replaces the retainer plate.

Mine has one hole to drill and tap. Instructions say to depth of 3/4". At about 5/8"+ it broke thru to the crankcase, kind of thru the sloping side of a reinforcement rim, so I raised drill rpms to avoid a broken bit. Tap went easy. Of course chips fell into the crankcase so the block had to be cleaned yet again.

Degreeing wil be a challenge as I'm using an old cam with no timing card. Oh, my crank gear does show the keyways as differently placed re' the teeth.
 
Mad Dart said:
I am glad someone got instructions, mine came with none!
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OK, I should say that the instructions that I have are the ones off of their website.

And they are quite inadequate, but give you a vague idea of what you are supposed to do.

Hearing about drilling into the block kinda has me thinkin' tho. I'd really like to see pics of the 392, ne57.
 
Ok here's the pic. Once I stopped reading the directions and just did what looked right it went pretty easy. Except that since I'm deleting the fuel pump eccentric the cam would bind against the plate and jam everything up. Once I figured what the problem was I ordered the special eccentric delete bolt and washer which hopefully fixes it.

PICT0033.jpg
 
Mad Dart said:
I am glad someone got instructions, mine came with none!
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same here! I drilled the holes to mount it, but am not ready to permanently assemble anything.

Someone gave me the indication you still need to use the original cam retainer plate, is this true? I thought the idler plate replaced it...can anyone answer that?
 
POS Dakota said:
same here! I drilled the holes to mount it, but am not ready to permanently assemble anything.

Someone gave me the indication you still need to use the original cam retainer plate, is this true? I thought the idler plate replaced it...can anyone answer that?
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I don't see how you could use both. It would push the cam gear out 3/16 of an inch or so and misalign the gears no??
 
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