Timing Gear Drive

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I have one on my 340 duster and I'm very pleased. I twist this engine to 7000 rpm with no issues. I was impressed with the quality of this peice. It is an easy install requiring one hole to be drilled and tapped, and a bit of clearanceing of the timming cover at the bottom driver side. This peice is way better than any double roller chain, I have had. It elimated any timing wonder and I can tell this engine revs quicker.
 
fanofpetty said:
I have one on my 340 duster and I'm very pleased. I twist this engine to 7000 rpm with no issues. I was impressed with the quality of this peice. It is an easy install requiring one hole to be drilled and tapped, and a bit of clearanceing of the timming cover at the bottom driver side. This peice is way better than any double roller chain, I have had. It elimated any timing wonder and I can tell this engine revs quicker.
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How long have you been running it?
 
ne57 said:
Ok here's the pic. Once I stopped reading the directions and just did what looked right it went pretty easy. Except that since I'm deleting the fuel pump eccentric the cam would bind against the plate and jam everything up. Once I figured what the problem was I ordered the special eccentric delete bolt and washer which hopefully fixes it.
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I don't think the new accentric bolt will fix your issue. I had to countersunk the 4 Allen bolts behind the cam gear. They were hitting the back if the cam gear when I spun the motor over by hand. I counter sunk the allens just a little bit, no more than 3/16 of an inch. I also used RED Thread Locker on all hardware. I even used it on the cam gear bolt.
 
>I had to countersunk the 4 Allen bolts behind the cam gear<

Yeah I thought that might be the problem so I checked for clearance and it seemed OK. I did see some rubbing on the plate, like the cam gear was pinching. I backed off the cambolt a little and it freed up. Fingers crossed on the new bolt/washer. But defintiely will recheck the 4 bolts afterwards.

One other thing. The stock 392 has a 'gutter' of sorts that directs oil dripping from the cam bearing onto the crank gear. It attaches on the bottom two cam retainer bolts. There's no room for it with the gearset so I'm wondering if it'll be lubed enough or is there some other way of directing the oil onto the gears?
 
ne57 said:
>I had to countersunk the 4 Allen bolts behind the cam gear<

Yeah I thought that might be the problem so I checked for clearance and it seemed OK. I did see some rubbing on the plate, like the cam gear was pinching. I backed off the cambolt a little and it freed up. Fingers crossed on the new bolt/washer. But defintiely will recheck the 4 bolts afterwards.

One other thing. The stock 392 has a 'gutter' of sorts that directs oil dripping from the cam bearing onto the crank gear. It attaches on the bottom two cam retainer bolts. There's no room for it with the gearset so I'm wondering if it'll be lubed enough or is there some other way of directing the oil onto the gears?
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I know on a Small Block Mopar 273-360 you can drill a "Very small" hole thru the cam retaining plate where the lifter oiling plug is at, you would need to drill thru the plug also. This will allow for pressurized oil to squirt out of the hole straight onto the Timing Gears.
I did that oiling Mod on my 340.
 
I found it on Page 41..........This mod is used to squirt oil on the fuel pump eccentric, but as we all know the plate is behind the cam timing gear so NATURALLY it would oil the chain, sprockets, gear drive and everything else in there.

Here are some pics of page 41, it says to drill a "1/64--.016" hole in the galley plug and a bigger hole about 1/4" in the retaining plate. It has been awhile since I did this mod on the 340.

Sorry for the blurry pics but you get the idea.

mini tub etc 014.jpg


mini tub etc 015.jpg


mini tub etc 016.jpg


mini tub etc 017.jpg
 
Mad Dart said:
I don't see how you could use both. It would push the cam gear out 3/16 of an inch or so and misalign the gears no??
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That's what I'm thinking. I thought I saw it mentioned in the instructions to do that. Maybe I misread. But either way, it's got to be wrong.
 
Mad Dart said:
I don't think the new accentric bolt will fix your issue. I had to countersunk the 4 Allen bolts behind the cam gear. They were hitting the back if the cam gear when I spun the motor over by hand. I counter sunk the allens just a little bit, no more than 3/16 of an inch. I also used RED Thread Locker on all hardware. I even used it on the cam gear bolt.
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When i mocked it up I made that observation too. cam gear hits.
I chucked the allen bolts and I'm using grade 8 hex bolts. problem solved.
Doesnt hit.

It's kind of funny...I wasnt aware there were any instructions. I guess I would have been if they CAME WITH THE DAMNED THING! :angry7:
Mine came in a box inside a plastic box. it was full of grease. lol
 
POS Dakota said:
When i mocked it up I made that observation too. cam gear hits.
I chucked the allen bolts and I'm using grade 8 hex bolts. problem solved.
Doesnt hit.
It's kind of funny...I wasnt aware there were any instructions. I guess I would have been if they CAME WITH THE DAMNED THING! :angry7:
Mine came in a box inside a plastic box. it was full of grease. lol
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Well chitttttt, that is what my dumb azzzz should have did also........haaaaaaa

Mine was shipped the same way, like they just threw it together real quick poured some grease on it and out the door it goes??
 
haha yep! But for 110 bucks, I have no complaint. better than 400 bucks with instructions and a fancy name IMO.

Not like it's fact, but the allen bolts gae me kind of an uneasy feeling. I just felt that there wasnt enough shoulder on them to hold the plate like a hex head. The holes in the plate are a little larger than the bolts themselves and I felt the plate would move. It moves when the bolts were loosened. This was another reason I brought up clearancing the gears. If the plate were to move during operation, there could be problems.
Of course with people running them successfully, I am probably just being alarmist but at a minimum, the standard hex bolts dont have as tall a head as the allen bolts so they cleared.

You're not a dumbass at all Louis. The approach you took was obviously effective, but just different. Nothing wrong with thinking out of the box. countersinking the bolts like you did eliminates any concerns of the allen bolts moving I would guess since they have a recess to sit in. It's all good.
 
POS,

1 thing I do know is we worked out all the bugs for the NEXT GUY........

Which is what this site is all about!
 
OK guys,

I'm installing my cam and degreeing it this weekend. After re-reading most of the thread, I did a little thinking and some research.

If I am correct, there are different degrees to the crank gear. There are five keyways and 26 teeth. After some high school geometry, it is clear that the keyways are all evenly spaced at 72* around the inside of the gear. One keyway lines up almost perfectly with one tooth, the other four are all offset from a tooth by varying degrees. 26 teeth equal 13.846* per tooth, or 69.231* per 5 teeth. So, wouldn't moving the gear to a keyway either to the right or left of the "inline" keyway retard or advance the timing? And moving it two keyways left or right "double" that amount of advance/retard?

Did anyone else notice the offset between the teeth and the keyways? And if so, which keyway did you use?

Here's a pic, not sure if it will show up well enough. The tooth/keyway on the left with the Sharpie mark is the one that lines up, the others are all a bit off.

IMG_2072.JPG
 
That's correct. The only way to know where to put it is how you end up installing your cam and where it works best.

I am going to install mine at 106. I'll have to get my dial and wheel on there and see where it sits. Someone on here was able to do it without offset bushings, so It SHOULD be doable.

But yeah they are all different positions.
 
Mad Dart said:
POS,

1 thing I do know is we worked out all the bugs for the NEXT GUY........

Which is what this site is all about!
Click to expand...

The Thomas Edisons of the cheap geardrive movement. :toothy10:
It's always good for a few people to buy something that seems cool, play with it and then exchange information. I think some good stuff has been exchanged on this and this thing is proven to be good. Just needs a little work is all. What doesnt?

The people who ignore the naysay and just do it are the happy ones in the end...sometimes.=P~
 
POS Dakota said:
That's correct. The only way to know where to put it is how you end up installing your cam and where it works best.

I am going to install mine at 106. I'll have to get my dial and wheel on there and see where it sits. Someone on here was able to do it without offset bushings, so It SHOULD be doable.

But yeah they are all different positions.
Click to expand...

I was able to get my 106 degree centerline without any keys. It does take some time and I had to move it a few times to find the right combination. I now have almost 2,000 miles on mine and have no issues. This has been a great thread.
 
Here is a small video of a cat gear drive. This is right after a rebuild and the idle is a bit high, but you get the idea.

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It's not really that loud at all through the aluminum cover.
Is yours the quiet or the noisy?

Apparently both are offered. I bought the noisy one because I like it.
 
POS Dakota said:
It's not really that loud at all through the aluminum cover.
Is yours the quiet or the noisy?

Apparently both are offered. I bought the noisy one because I like it.
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I actually ordered the noisy one, but it is fairly quiet. I don't think that I would want it any louder.
 
Badart said:
I actually ordered the noisy one, but it is fairly quiet. I don't think that I would want it any louder.
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Yeah it isnt overpowering at all.
I wouldnt mind either way. One thing I DONT want to hear though is the fuel pump.
 
>but as we all know the plate is behind the cam timing gear so NATURALLY it would oil the chain, sprockets, gear drive and everything else in there.

I was wondering about that. The position of my(392) gallery plugs looks like to me that they would squirt just on the inside of the cam gear holes. Would the oil get around to the gear teeth by windage or something? And how about the idler bearing...gets oiled from the general oil cloud under the cover? I was thinking along the lines of devising a postive, directed path from the plate, around the cam gear and squirt directly on the meshing teeth and bearing, i don't know how yet, don't even know if its practical or even needed.

Still, i'd feel better with positive oiling, hey you know, a little insurance couldn't hurt. Its convenient that the 392 and mopar smallblock share a few systems, that way i can get different perspectives.
 
Ok, here's why my set was binding. The recess in the camplate is not cut deep enough. At this point it looks like it needs to be about .016" deeper but i want to estimate that in other ways. I'm basing that number on the difference between the stock retainer plate and the CAT thickness. My caliper's depth gauge is not quite wide enough to get a reliable measurement of the distance of the cam snout to thrust washer compared to cam snout to CAT plate. ( the cam binds up when the bolt is tightened and the camgear back face is jammed against the CAT plate recess, essentially squeezing the plate with both thrust faces on the cam) On the stock setup it LOOKS flush. BTW cam endplay with the stock eveything is about 0 but free enought to rotate easily, which doesn't sound right to me, I'd expect something more like.003-.007 or so, haven't located factory spec yet. I'm thinking the .016" plus whatever the endplay spec is should be how much to actually remove from the recess. Does that sound correct?


Was also working on the positive oiler for the gearset, pics and stuff later.

timing gear 003.jpg


timing gear 006.jpg


timing gear 008.jpg
 
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