Today, dollar for dollar, is the 318 faster than the 340 ???
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Dartswinger70
Well-Known Member
It's a "we are cool too" thing, more division more things to be divided about. The guys that have been around know what's up. It's the difference between the championship team, and the Special Olympics championship team...
rmchrgr
Skate And Destroy
Bet he's got more than $3K in it. Also bet it's not even a 318 but tells everyone it is. Bet it's also huffing a lot of nitrous. Just like having a roller cam 512" low deck with a 383 pie tin on the air cleaner. "Yeah, it's just a mild buildup with parts I had layin' around, nothin' crazy. Wanna race?" But I digress.
I'd like to see some of these fast 2021-technology small cube motors. Are we still talking about your young man with a 4 door Dart 318 running 8 seconds on a 3 grand budget? Can't keep moving the goal posts. Thought this whole discussion was about low-budget street motors.
There was a guy that used to be on here many years ago out of the northern Midwest somewhere, victory273. Matt I think was his name, had a machine shop. Ran this '66 Valiant in NHRA SS/K with a 273/4 speed combo. That was sick ride, think he did OK with it. Very well thought out and well executed car. He was a machinist so he was able to do his own work but he very likely had $3K in the heads alone.
There was another NHRA stock '65 Valiant several years back with a 273 from the Pacific Northwest, this red car driven by Angela Bushmaker. They were in J/SA or K/SA. I believe they had it in the 11.70s which is not bad for that class. Another very well scienced out car and not cheap in any way shape or form. I was into this thing, so cool.
But these "fast small cube" cars are really not what we're talking about, right? NHRA class cars are close to pro level pieces and are generally high dollar efforts, even in the middle classes. I'm just trying to prove I'm not biased against one thing or another and that I've actually taken some time to learn about unusual combos. I'd take a solid lifter 273 over any 318 all day.
Again, my overall disagreement here is with your premise that spending $3K or under on a free 318 will net a better result because the 340 block will eat up too much of the overall budget. That's a non-sequitur argument, I'm not sure you can correlate two such disparate ideas while trying to make a comparison.
Really though, nobody is steering any budding hot rod kids in the wrong direction or giving them bad advice by suggesting they build a 340. I'd even go so far as to say it might even be better to discourage someone from spending any money on something that's marginal at best and ultimately wind up being disappointed in the results.
Maybe you or someone you know had a hot 318 that ran OK and it surprised some people but that's not the norm. Regardless, it seems like you've become stuck on this idea that these little **** motors are somehow more capable now than anyone had ever known before. I don't think so.
Either way, I'm glad I still have that extra 340 and roller block 360 so I never have to have this silly argument with myself. That is if I ever build another small block...
4 dr going 8's on 3k.... LOL !! Ok, we get your vote. That's cool ! Building for 3k or less the 340 gets your vote. That's great! But IF you believe it's a skewed comparison, then why post in the thread ???
- Oh, P.S. - The 318 would have beat those cars you've posted. And it was a 3.31 stroke motor, and either .030 or .040 over... . there was a "340" member here running 11.3's and he had that "318 blah blah attitude"... until he found out they both were close in region and the 318 guy "Devon" asked him to put his money where his mouth was... crickets crickets.. LOL Again, it's not 1982 and Reagan's not on the ballet !
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68 Camaro 327/glide 10.30's. lol
right on. Talked with a guy at our strip. Like a '84 camaro, 5.3 LS swap, Cadillac heads, ebay single turbo, runs 9.20's and drives down the interstate 75 mph. Again, it's not 1981... Some are lost in 1981 and they think they are entitled to the win because their block says "340" on the side. I love 340's, but I'm a realist
He kept losing the bottom end in his 383 stroker and went back to his 327.
He's been running a 327 for over 40 years.
Did you ever put a SBC 383 together? What a disaster waiting to happen. A friend of mine wanted one so I put it together for him. Looked at everything close, and pulled and sold the 383 stroker stuff and put it back to a 350. A 327 is my favorite SBC, followed by a 283.
Sorry, parts are parts. No extra work at all, did it all the time. Some combinations just work. Cubic inches don't matter to me. Not everybody "needs" or "wants" a big inch engine.
1. What do you have?
2. What can you get and for how much?
3. How much to finish it and make it what you want?
Otherwise, for you big motor guys, just get a 400 or a 440, stroke it and be done.
Just for the record, I'm stuck in the 60's for car stuff. I didn't make it to the 80's.
Francis Marion is very cool. Just not my name...
Dartswinger70
Well-Known Member
hay no worries, I said "Bullshit" cause that's just how I would say it in person . I hope I didn't offend anyone I suppose what I'm saying is, yes you can pout 360 head on a 318, but I'd then want to raise compression, that means high comp pistons...see where this is going, I would be taking or attempting to take the best parts of a 340 and incorporate into a 318. I'm not even sure if they make 10:5.1 pistons for a 318,but Id venture to say yes they do or something close anyway. Either way it is alot of effort to create a 318 with 340 bits, and its not worth it when you could scour and comb the earth for a 340-360 and find the latter very affordably.
Dartswinger70
Well-Known Member
I believe I asked in a post in this thread" tell us how you are going top do it..." ( a 300 hp 318. I am keeping the HP around tweaked stock 340 levels) no one will chime in its a "secret" LOL!
rmchrgr
Skate And Destroy
Agree. Show me how its done and prove it with dyno numbers and/or elapsed times or it didn’t happen. I’ve posted my own ETs which are laughable. Nothing to be ashamed of.
Or, show us all these young men 4 door Dart drivers who are perfectly happy with their $3k 318. Don’t all jump up at once now!
I still don’t get the comparison anyway. If you’re constrained by such a small budget then save up until you can do something worthwhile because once you spend the money its gone. No one is going to give you any return on your investment if you try to sell it down the road. As soon as you get the next itch to make more power you’re back at square one.
I’ve been playing guitar for about 35 years. Early on I learned the value of better equipment. I struggled the first few years because its tough to learn on junk that doesn’t sound good, falls apart, won’t stay in tune etc.
My playing improved dramatically and rapidly when I bought my first real gear. It was like “oh, this is what it’s supposed to sound like!”
I was in my late teens-early 20’s and to that point I had never spent real money on anything because I didn’t have it. I horse traded, scraped and saved until I had the funds to buy good stuff. Totally worth it and still have the same stuff to this day. Ir’s still awesome too, I’ll never get rid of it.
People ask me if they should buy cheap starter guitars for their kids because they don’t want to spend the money on a real instrument. I tell if them if they want the kid to succeed, give them the equipment which will give them the best chances to do so. Seen it many times where the parents think that “junior” guitar or drum kit will spark some interest but three weeks later the kids have lost interest because the equipment sucks. Whatever they saved by being cheap is reflected in a closet full of crap that gets used once or twice and then its garbage.
Same deal with a 318.
Dartswinger70
Well-Known Member
Agree. I play also. my first real guitar was an 85 Fender Strat made in japan. I was 20, went broke for two to three weeks to get it, I still have it.
I agree you'll enjoy life more if you buy what you really want and like you said and start with good equipment Rock on!
Put the right guy on a cheapo guitar ..... Or a beginner on a expensive guitar.... I bet the cheapo guitar will sound better......
justinp61
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Put the right guy on a cheapo guitar ..... Or a beginner on a expensive guitar.... I bet the cheapo guitar will sound better......
I think you got exactly what you were looking for when you started this thread, 21 pages of
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Dartswinger70
Well-Known Member
Good talk (figuratively speaking because we typed actually)I think you got exactly what you were looking for when you started this thread, 21 pages of
However I think until 318 guys can show a 300 hp 318 for $3 K ...hell ill even give ya a handicap and let ya get away with '275 HP? but in the end Ill say " a well tuned 340 will hit 300 horse..." 318 WR heres your chance to do a long Youtube series put your money where your Posts(mouth ) is...
and most pro guitar players will play junk for the camera then toss it aside when the camera is turned off...any gigging guitar player will at the least buy a Fender Mexican which go for $650 now, then upgrade later as they get some coin. Only a crackhead will buy a $150 Squier off Craigslist and play a gig. I knw a bit about musicians and gigging. Drug addict musicians with cheap/no gear are the worst.
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318 guys are a breed of their own. Slow but probably nice guys, kinda on the cheap side of the Mopar World but like I said a breed of their own. So be kind to them and donate your unwanted 318 parts.
Dartswinger70
Well-Known Member
I think, if a 318 guy actually took a 340 apart saw what's in it, they may change their mind. Mopar got it right with that engine, just the internals are enough to make you a believer. For example the forged crank, internally balanced, the heavy duty rods, the 68-71 pistons that are high compression, the heads with 2.02 valves, the 68 manual trans cam., the casting and port size...double roller timing chain, windage tray high flow exhaust manifolds I believe the main caps are unique to 340 , the 4 barrel intake and carb.. Prestolite Dual point distributor Not much to it but there is the "original" recipe.
I mean having rebuilt both more than one of each over the years its a no brainer. I will admit I've never rebuilt a 360.
I would be "unenthused" to take apart a 318,with a cast crank, the light duty rods, the flat top pistons, the small port heads with small ports and valves, the two barrel carb and intake, the nylon timing gear (I wonder how many out there still have that LOL!) then dick around with it, buy a cam, intake carb, what are you doing with the heads? replacing with Edelbrocks? that's $1500 there last I checked. then what .030 over with raised compression pistons? not cheap, cam?...lifters timing chain... headers. That 3 grand spent up quick I'm thinking...
P.S. I know that some early 318 I believe Truck engines had the forged crank and heavy duty rods, that would be a score to get that engine as a core IMO.
I mean having rebuilt both more than one of each over the years its a no brainer. I will admit I've never rebuilt a 360.
I would be "unenthused" to take apart a 318,with a cast crank, the light duty rods, the flat top pistons, the small port heads with small ports and valves, the two barrel carb and intake, the nylon timing gear (I wonder how many out there still have that LOL!) then dick around with it, buy a cam, intake carb, what are you doing with the heads? replacing with Edelbrocks? that's $1500 there last I checked. then what .030 over with raised compression pistons? not cheap, cam?...lifters timing chain... headers. That 3 grand spent up quick I'm thinking...
P.S. I know that some early 318 I believe Truck engines had the forged crank and heavy duty rods, that would be a score to get that engine as a core IMO.
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Good talk (figuratively speaking because we typed actually)
However I think until 318 guys can show a 300 hp 318 for $3 K ...hell ill even give ya a handicap and let ya get away with '275 HP? but in the end Ill say " a well tuned 340 will hit 300 horse..." 318 WR heres your chance to do a long Youtube series put your money where your Posts(mouth ) is...
Here's 282hp @ 5000 rpm just cam 4bbl headers stock long block, add cr and or a little head work got yor 300 hp plus.
318 Long Block Bolt Ons - Tech Articles - Mopar Muscle Magazine
rmchrgr
Skate And Destroy
Put the right guy on a cheapo guitar ..... Or a beginner on a expensive guitar.... I bet the cheapo guitar will sound better......
Just stop advising people to be cheap. There’s no free lunch.
For many years, I had to be cheap to enjoy the hobby. Now, I'm cheap because it's fun.
If somebody else is buying, I'll always prefer a 340 over a 318 any day of the week and twice on Sundays.
I think I have 300 hp in my 750 dollar 318 lock, stock, and barrel. Anyone have a 100% stock 340 and wanna race??? equal gears, no headers. I'm game! I have less in my entire motor, including the 2 4bbls sitting on top than you'd have in just the block for a 340. And I think I'm in for the win ! Been beating the tar out of it for 6 yrs and counting....
slow as in the head ??? LOL. Yes, I will take all unwanted 318's, complete running motors
slow as in the head ??? LOL. Yes, I will take all unwanted 318's, complete running motors
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