I can tell you none of these prices apply in Connecticut....
Today, dollar for dollar, is the 318 faster than the 340 ???
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Dartswinger70
Well-Known Member
I dunno... college is a waste of money ever see the idiots they are producing at colleges?
mygasser
Well-Known Member
that's not the question as of course with both sat there we'd all use the 340. the question was if you had to buy and build for £*** which one would make more power? why do so many miss that point?
Dartswinger70
Well-Known Member
That is a setup question designed to start an argument which is why you chose to quote and correct me. Its a bullshit biased 318 question. I didn't miss that point.that's not the question as of course with both sat there we'd all use the 340. the question was if you had to buy and build for £*** which one would make more power? why do so many miss that point?
if 318 guys want to be cheapskates its ok, but don't gloat like its a race engine that is where this **** goes downhill fast.
rmchrgr
Skate And Destroy
so when the next young man shows up with his 318 4 door dart, says he wants to build some performance on it and has 2500... maybe 3k to spend on the engine.... is it common sense to advise buying a 340 instead??? Many here offer that advice. My question is would that get him the most performance for his money?? Talking in a 1/4 mile race. Obviously the 360 option is golden here but some still advise the 340. At todays prices, should he pay 1500 for a core 340?? Or should that 1500 buy a set of Promaxx heads for the 318 ??? I love 340's, and have owned a few. But at todays prices, I don't think they fit the bill of a low end budget.
- Or, we could offer up the age old "you can't play until you can pay" advice, which ALWAYS helps the hobby grow... Son, in 10 years of savings, you get to play.....
Even if this mythical young man shows up with his 4 door 318 Dart, (sounds kind creepy actually) I'd still say forget the 318. The supposed "extra" cost of the "better" (larger) block is worth the expense because it translates into more power.
I'm not sure why the initial question asked us to make a choice between a 318 and a 340, kind of an odd angle. And even though they share the same external dimensions the two blocks could not be more different. IMO it's not a realistic question no matter how hard you squint. No one in their right mind chooses to build a 318 over a 340 but no one has to do it either because the 360 exists and are still plentiful (more so than the 340) and can still be had relatively cheaply whether in LA or Magnum form.
Here's a real world example. Friend of mine has a '66 Fury with an LA 318 that someone swapped in in place of the Poly. This thing ran like crap and eventually blew a head gasket. He took it somewhere to get it fixed and the shop quoted him something ridiculous not because it's a hard job but because they probably didn't want to deal with his P.O.S. and if they had to they were damn well gonna get paid to do so. I told him if he could get the car to my house we'd fix it.
Couple days later another friend of ours says he had an '80s 318 given to him a while back but he never did anything with it. Only thing it was doing was taking up space and told Fury guy he could have it free. Fury guy went and got it and brought it up to my house with the intention we would do a basic rebuild on it and swap out the hot mess that was in the car.
So he drops the motor off and man is it grubby and no doubt it had been sitting for eons. It turned over but it would had to come apart for sure, thing was super crusty. Now that's all par for the course and what you'd expect from this situation but here's where the money thing comes in. Like our mythical young man here, he had a similar budget of a couple grand to spend on it but of course wanted (had to have) more power. Soooo...
If you intend to make any more power above stock with a 318 you have little choice but to address the shortcomings of the factory architecture. Again, almost all model year 318's were saddled with low compression, pitiful cams and small-valve heads that flowed less air than a squirrel fart. Besides cleaning up whatever block you have at a machine shop, you're into the "build" for pistons + balancing and most likely installing the pistons on the rods and reconditioning the rods as well. That's a big chunk o' your budget right there.
Maybe you get cheap machine work and parts wherever you live but around here hot tank, measure, bore and hone and whatever else is needed is going to be between $800-$1,000 for basic operations and if you're just starting out you're likely not going to be doing this stuff yourself either. We're not even talking cylinder heads or valve train yet, intake, exhaust etc but that $3,000 is done and gone and you're not halfway there.
So me and Fury guy went through this whole discussion over a couple days and it just became more and more obvious that even the free 318 was not worth spending money on because of it's inherent flaws. Was it wise to spend whatever money was needed on the junker in his car to get it running but have the same level of crappy performance? Was it wise to spend his entire budget on the free 318 knowing that because of the budget he would never be able to realistically achieve what he had in his mind for performance? In the end he decided to abandon doing anything with either his current or the free 318 and gave the thing to yet another friend of ours. So that's literally 3 different guys who had the thing in their possession and all chose not to spend any money it even though it was free. Crazy, huh?
This is my opinion but to me it's always worth spending a little more to get a better block because even with a limited budget you will be better off in the end, all things being equal. Torque is king on the street. A mild 360 is capable of 400 ft lbs. of torque in relatively stock form. I don't believe you can make that same claim with a 318.
Engines cost the same to build whether it's a 273, 318, 340 or 360. True, 340 blocks can be pricey because of their scarcity so if you're on a budget then you have to forgo the bling until you can afford it. Again, 360s are still relatively plentiful and cheap. I would almost say that there's going to be less and less demand for 360s in the coming years because there will be way more Gen III Hemis out there. The Gen III is light years ahead of any LA configuration to the point that no one is going to want to bother messing with ancient crap like an LA small block. Maybe things will start looking like 30-40 years ago when you could find 360's laying in the dirt.
340 or 360 which one would you build. we have 2 blocks and 2 cranks and a running 318. lol if we're not building the 318.
Dartswinger70
Well-Known Member
Well then lets face it you aren't getting a 340 for 3 grand that's the answer you all are looking for right? and you can make the same power with a 318 and three grand than the guy who buys a worn out 340 for 3 grand. it's a loaded question. truth is the guy who buys the 340 is going to spend more, now a few posts back I posted a link to a 360 ready to go for 2 but no..this thread is about 340 see? its bullshit because you are ignoring the fact that you can spend two grand on a 360 that will drop in ready to go and make at least 300 horsepower. 318s aren't the be all and end all and lately they aren't free like they used to be. This is real narrow minded bs here i have to go peace out.
mygasser
Well-Known Member
it seems (to me at least) the whole point of the discussion could've been to get '340 guys' to admit the possibility that for a given 'buy and build' budget the 318 makes more power. most can't do it. i'd be real happy if i had a 340 to put in my valiant but i could buy a 390 stroker kit for the 318 i have for just the purchase cost of the 340 core here in the uk (if i could find a core). and with the 'build' budget it'd get decent heads to go with it. the 318 is never going to be a race engine per se but it can be a decent performer as can any engine. heck i built a mild chevy 305, put it into a uk ford granada and it'd eat bmw m3's up to about 100mph. so you know i'm not biased. i also put a 440 in a 65 dart that was my daily, but now i'm getting off topic. they're all good for one thing, fun usually
mygasser
Well-Known Member
sell the 340 block and crank as they're worth the most and use the cash towards building the 360
Dave_J
Well-Known Member
In 1986 I bought my 65 B Cuda for $700 and it had a shoehorned 1968 383 Mag in it. Iron everything.... It was so nose heavy. Had a Ford 9 inch with 3.50:1 lazy pozi.
I ran it at SIR in Kent Washington and on a good day it ran 15.2 @ 89 MPH. But the steering would lock up when the engine torqued up, the left side iron log manifold would rub the steering shaft.
In 1990 I bought a crashed Seattle cop Dart with a 318 Police 4bb.
I had a set of TRW stock bore 9.5 pistons and a 340 resto cam. Milled 0.030 off the deck to square it. Eldy 318 performer with a 600 Eldy, 273 iron ex manifolds.
I also pulled the Ford 9 inch and put an F body 8 1/4 with 2.91 SG.
Ran 14.8 @93 MPH most nights....
It was fun to drive. My commute was from Auburn (Seattle) over the mountain to Yakima Firing Center and I got 20 MPG.
GIVE me a 340 and a 318 and yes I will build the 340.
GIVE me a 340 and a 5.9 Roller, the 5.9 will get built and I'll sell the 340. ;)
But I am not buying a 340 core when I can get a bigger bang for my $,$$$
I ran it at SIR in Kent Washington and on a good day it ran 15.2 @ 89 MPH. But the steering would lock up when the engine torqued up, the left side iron log manifold would rub the steering shaft.
In 1990 I bought a crashed Seattle cop Dart with a 318 Police 4bb.
I had a set of TRW stock bore 9.5 pistons and a 340 resto cam. Milled 0.030 off the deck to square it. Eldy 318 performer with a 600 Eldy, 273 iron ex manifolds.
I also pulled the Ford 9 inch and put an F body 8 1/4 with 2.91 SG.
Ran 14.8 @93 MPH most nights....
It was fun to drive. My commute was from Auburn (Seattle) over the mountain to Yakima Firing Center and I got 20 MPG.
GIVE me a 340 and a 318 and yes I will build the 340.
GIVE me a 340 and a 5.9 Roller, the 5.9 will get built and I'll sell the 340. ;)
But I am not buying a 340 core when I can get a bigger bang for my $,$$$
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Dave_J
Well-Known Member
If Shelby had gotten his way the 1984 Shelby Charger would have gotten the 318 EFI 5 speed. But Chrysler did not want to spend the $100,000 EPA fee.
448Scamp
Running Free
- Actually, I like more door cars too, so I guess I'm a creep?? LOL
- Why the 318/340 angle?? First, because some still advice low budget builders to buy a 340. To me, it's iconic when the lowly grocery getter, unwanted boat anchor, yes... the 318 is now the smart choice vs 340's if a guy has 3k to buy and build a motor to hot rod.
- NO, I'm not a "318 only save the world man"... LOL. I would pay 600 for a good core 340 before I'd take a free 318. It has nothing to do with preference, it has everything to do with reality.
P.S. - CURRENTLY - I have 3 mopars with 360's, and a 4th that is going to get a 360 (yes, I'm pulling the 318 for a 360 ). I have 3 with 318's, though as stated, one is getting pulled for a 360. One mopar with a 383. I currently have no 340's, though I wish I did.
). I have 3 with 318's, though as stated, one is getting pulled for a 360. One mopar with a 383. I currently have no 340's, though I wish I did.
and... faster on the budget?? Yes !
448Scamp
Running Free
I must be in the '70's then, because my real world motors are usually less than half the budget allowed.
You can have your small blocks if I'm not building the 318.
Because I'm not searching for a 340 , I'm moving up to a 400 block because my budget is already blown.
If you can't make a 318 run fast, maybe you shouldn't be giving advice. So who in here races a 318? See post #27. All it takes is a pair of used 360 heads for $100, some machine work, a set of pistons, and a camshaft. All this nostalgia and bigger cubes don't mean a thing. When I was hot rodding, 318's and 360's were considered junk smog motors, and were scrapped. Not because they would not make power, but there were better motors with more potential to start with. A 68 318 is not the same as a 86 318, and on it goes. A low mileage LA or Magnum is very cheap to rebuild. Most will buy pistons and a cam anyway.
rmchrgr
Skate And Destroy
Sorry but I think this idea is a little flawed. First of all, it's the internet, people just say whatever **** comes to their mind (fingers?) without really thinking it through. Maybe they just read a line or two of someone's post and type out "get a 340" as the automatic reply. Gotta wade through the detritus just like with everything else.
I think most guys here (who are old enough) know the reality of 2021 is different than the reality of 2001, let alone 1981, there's just not that many good 340 blocks around to build anymore. As we all know, 340s were produced for what, 6 model years? Plus the cars it came in were comparatively low production vehicles because 340 was the premium small block engine. Even the 360 4bbl cars never held the same cache as the high-winding 340s.
Chrysler's meat'n'potatoes was 318-equipped basic transportation cars, fleet vehicles and trucks. Aunt Ethel could probably gave a rat's *** about a 340 Duster but she sure loved putting her Sherwood green 318 Scamp to chruch every Sunday. Maybe she even thought it was peppy!
Then think about how many kids in the '70s and '80s blew 340s up or even just tossed them in the dumpster when they were done with 'em. If they had the foresight to know the supply of blocks would be non-existent 30-40 years later they may have thought twice. They didn't though because they had fun while it lasted and moved on to the next thing.
So here we are now debating whether lame-*** 318s are going to be "faster" than a 340 because you can't find any good, cheap blocks anymore. Does that make sense? No. But Guys on the internet still say to build a 340 which for whatever reason ruffles some feathers.
318s suck, I would never advise anyone to waste money trying to wring any amount of power out of one, it's not worth the expense. It's like the loony Slant 6 guys, these types have a Napoleon complex. Get over it, buy a 360, stroke it to 422 and be happy. Life is too short to waste money trying to prove a point that no one cares about. If guys want to prove they can do it then go for it, make us all believers but stop making weird arguments trying to convince people otherwise.
Dartswinger70
Well-Known Member
I was thinking,3 grand eh? Id still go with the 340. It would have to be a "running 340"...something that would be capable of being "overhauled" no machine work. I wouldn't care if it was .030 or .040 over, just as long as I could re ring it, bearings,cam etc. If I could pick it up for 2 grand, (I'd shoot for less 1900even), I d make the rest of it work for a grand...
Dartswinger70
Well-Known Member
Bullshit,you just said you'd use 360 heads...everyone knows that recipe,why fart around doing all that work buy the 340 and be done...
Dartswinger70
Well-Known Member
I knew Abigail block guy back in the day. Used to give me small blocks cheap or free. I asked him why he didn't run small block, he said " not enough power" he was a b body guy
If you don't think a 318 can run, then you may be the one stuck in the 80's. There are some seriously fast small cube motors now, welcome to 2021. Not being rude or controversy. There was a guy right here on FABO that offered to races those 422 for $$$ with his 318. We are away from the discussion, just say'n....
I don't think anyone is saying 318/360s are Bad just that 340s are better...
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