TorqStorm Supercharger build advice needed

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Jerry Miller said:
Thanks again. This is great info. I like the thought about using the vacuum advance idea. I had wondered if any one had ever set an advance up in reverse to use a boost reference and then I saw that comment. I used to be a big diesel nut with the first Ford 7.3 PowerStrokes. We did all sorts of out of the box stuff, especially when the aftermarket support wasn’t quite there yet.
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I'm certain that MSD unit will do the job perfect, but if you're like I am and like to mess with stuff and make unconventional things work, the vacuum advance would be something to fuss with for sure. lol
 

TT5.9mag said:
All good points and things to think about. One caveat though. This will likely be a 200-230 hp engine on 6-8 psi. Heat is directly related to hp and load. He will be heavy with big tires but he does have steep gears. I think it could be done on a stock replacement type piston and 91 octane. Once again carefull tuning will be key.
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Well, quick math says 4.56's w/35's~=3.82's w/29's, with a curb weight~3900#. IF He's not pulling a trailer, IF He doesn't decide He wants more & tosses a smaller pulley on the compressor, IF He doesn't stray far from Home & get a load of bad fuel, IF IF IF..... I'd still use forged slugs starting from scratch...
 
Killer6 said:
Well, quick math says 4.56's w/35's~=3.82's w/29's, with a curb weight~3900#. IF He's not pulling a trailer, IF He doesn't decide He wants more & tosses a smaller pulley on the compressor, IF He doesn't stray far from Home & get a load of bad fuel, IF IF IF..... I'd still use forged slugs starting from scratch...
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I agree! All those "IFS" are also why I suggested the lower compression.
 
Thinking about running the Holley Sniper fuel injection that is meant for the Jeep 258. This will take care of a lot of the worries, I think. We were planning to mod a Holley 500cfm 2bbl and do the mechanical pump with a boost reference line to the vent hole, but I think I am going to see if he wants to just EFI it. Between the EFI monitoring fuel ratio and the MSD ignition, we "should" be pretty safe I would think. However, does anyone offer a decent forged piston that isn't crazy in price?
Jerry
 
I think the fuel injection is the best way to go.
I am not aware of a "stock" forged replacement piston for the slant. I used to use the old TRW L2125F or Sealed Power 1941PX, but they have been long discontinued. I still have a set of .040 and .060 on hand, but they are for my engines. The .040 for my turbo 170, and the .060 for a nitrous motor.
 
Jerry Miller said:
Thinking about running the Holley Sniper fuel injection that is meant for the Jeep 258. This will take care of a lot of the worries, I think. We were planning to mod a Holley 500cfm 2bbl and do the mechanical pump with a boost reference line to the vent hole, but I think I am going to see if he wants to just EFI it. Between the EFI monitoring fuel ratio and the MSD ignition, we "should" be pretty safe I would think. However, does anyone offer a decent forged piston that isn't crazy in price?
Jerry
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The only thing I can think of is calling Wiseco. Since they offer the piston for the 198 rod conversion, they'll make a forged stock replacement, I'm sure. But as you elude to, they won't be cheap.
 
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RustyRatRod said:
You guys SUCK. I shouldn't have ever even pend this thread. Now I'm really thinking about a boosted engine. lol Maybe next build.
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Rusty if you were closer I would drive over and take ya for a spin. finally getting this thing together makes me want to kick myself for not boosting a slant when I first cooked up this idea....... even 5-6psi on my slant is a Total Blast
 
Jerry Miller said:
Hi. I've been lurking on here for a while, but finally joined. I've searched for some of this but wasn't successful it what I specifically was looking for. So my son is working on a 1983 Dodge W150 pickup with the slant. He's decided to rebuild the engine and install a Torqstorm supercharger kit. I have Doug Dutra's book on order but figured I'd ask a few questions here.
1. For now, I think we are planning to plumb a boost line to the existing mechanical fuel pump's vent hole. I've seen this done before, but any issues I should be aware of? I know an electric pump and regulator would be the hot setup but we're trying to keep it as simple and reliable as possible.
2. Must we run an ignition system with boost reference to retard the timing or can I set the initial timing to ~10 BTDC and then do a lockout plate in the distributor to limit max advance to mid 20's or so? Once again, trying to keep it as simple as possible and honestly the $700 price tag for the MSD box is a bit much now.
3. He has the Carter BBD 2 bbl on a cast iron 2 bbl intake and stock exhaust manifold. He plans to keep the manifolds and maybe convert the BBD for blow through. Though we are looking at the Holley 350 and 500 2 bbls. Would like some input on this from people that have some experience with these.
4. His engine already has the head rebuilt with stock valves and the head is shaved .030" but we are looking at the CompCams High Energy cam package. I think its the 212 duration and .45" lift. He's planning to just run .030 flat top pistons from Sealed Power (cast) which I think will be fine for lower boost levels (input?) and not sure if we should deck the block at all.

This is a daily driver (he's in High School) and is a lifted truck with 35" tires and 4.56 gears with the NP435 4 speed manual. He plans to do some off-roading with it, but basically it needs to be a decent all condition type of engine build. I appreciate any info you guys can share and really appreciate being able to join. Sorry for such a wordy post (especially for the first one!)
Jerry
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You and your son may want to check David Vizzard's Powertec 10 youtube video on running 17:1 compression on 87 fuel and run lean.
With boost that CR is not in the cards, but you could mill the deck say 0.050". The thing to run the 87 fuel and lean is H2O and more timing advance as the water injected will slow the combustion a bunch. While tuning, careful attention for detonation must be kept.
 
Jerry Miller said:
Hi. I've been lurking on here for a while, but finally joined. I've searched for some of this but wasn't successful it what I specifically was looking for. So my son is working on a 1983 Dodge W150 pickup with the slant. He's decided to rebuild the engine and install a Torqstorm supercharger kit. I have Doug Dutra's book on order but figured I'd ask a few questions here.
1. For now, I think we are planning to plumb a boost line to the existing mechanical fuel pump's vent hole. I've seen this done before, but any issues I should be aware of? I know an electric pump and regulator would be the hot setup but we're trying to keep it as simple and reliable as possible.
2. Must we run an ignition system with boost reference to retard the timing or can I set the initial timing to ~10 BTDC and then do a lockout plate in the distributor to limit max advance to mid 20's or so? Once again, trying to keep it as simple as possible and honestly the $700 price tag for the MSD box is a bit much now.
3. He has the Carter BBD 2 bbl on a cast iron 2 bbl intake and stock exhaust manifold. He plans to keep the manifolds and maybe convert the BBD for blow through. Though we are looking at the Holley 350 and 500 2 bbls. Would like some input on this from people that have some experience with these.
4. His engine already has the head rebuilt with stock valves and the head is shaved .030" but we are looking at the CompCams High Energy cam package. I think its the 212 duration and .45" lift. He's planning to just run .030 flat top pistons from Sealed Power (cast) which I think will be fine for lower boost levels (input?) and not sure if we should deck the block at all.

This is a daily driver (he's in High School) and is a lifted truck with 35" tires and 4.56 gears with the NP435 4 speed manual. He plans to do some off-roading with it, but basically it needs to be a decent all condition type of engine build. I appreciate any info you guys can share and really appreciate being able to join. Sorry for such a wordy post (especially for the first one!)
Jerry
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You and your son may want to check David Vizzard's Powertec 10 youtube video on running 17:1 compression on 87 fuel and run lean.
With boost that CR is not in the cards, but you could mill the deck say 0.050". The thing to run the 87 fuel and lean is H2O and more timing advance as the water injected will slow the combustion a bunch. While tuning, careful attention for detonation must be kept.
With the intent to run a supercharger, the volume of exhaust gases goes up quickly. With that in mind, I would seriously consider increasing the exhaust valve diameter and grinding the exhaust valve and seats for 40°. This aids low lift blow down.
A thought. You could possibly get the EFI and all the parts off a salvage yard GM 3800 Series 2 SC engine and adapt them. Displacement is close so tuning should be fairly strait forward. This would make fuel management better. To run the water injection as DV describes, you would use 50% of the duty cycle read off the fuel injector duty cycle with the same size injectors. This keeps the exhaust valves cool as the combustion is cool. One thing to remember is that water expands 1600X in the phase change from liquid to gaseous state. This can greatly enhance the push on the piston during the power stroke. As DV states, 2% water soluable oil in the water would prevent corrosion and lube the injectors.
Just something to consider.
 
Jerry Miller said:
Yes. I know we went about things backwards. Originally he was just going to have a normally aspirated engine. When he got the truck, it was low on compression in one cylinder and none in another. We popped the head off and found some bad valves. Cylinder walls looked decent. His budget was much lower at the time (and we had body work and a lot of other stuff on the truck going on) So we gambled and just redid the head. He had no intention of forced induction at the time so we figured let's shave the head a bit. I'm glad he didn't do the full .090 that he was originally planning. Anyway, once the truck was back together it became clear that the bottom end, indeed needed attention. After playing with some online calculators (and stepping back and looking at the big picture) I realize 9:1 is is probably a bad idea once I figure in 6-7psi of boost. I think that puts the effective compression ratio close to 12:1 if I remember correctly. With .030 off the head and the felpro head gasket I believe he'll be around 8.25:1 (I have to check after it's apart) assuming my numbers are even close. This will be the safe bet for the supercharger I guess. Sorry, it's been a learning curve for me. I have not messed with this stuff in 20 years or so and certainly not on this engine.
I really appreciate the input. Another thing I was worried about it gapping the rings. At such a low boost, can we gap the rings to factory specs (maybe just on the higher side of the range) My concern is if he changes his mind about supercharging it half way through the build. This project has been a love/hate type of thing with him, LOL
Jerry
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If I understand correctly, now the short block is being rebuilt. With that in mind I would talk to TotalSeal piston rings and discuss the build. For supercharged applications you definately want to open up the ring gaps. If they butt up under boost heat, your day falls into the outhouse basement real fast. With TotalSeal you could run gas ported top rings and gapless second rings to keep combustion gases in the cylinder rather than the crankcase. They manufacture gas ported gapless rings down to 1mm which is about 0.040". To make use of this friction reducing technology, custom pistons would be required. The piston and ring costs would be up a bunch.
Sounds like with restoration of the body your son intends to keep the truck so money spent now is more money saved later.
One thing I have learned being around the street rrod community is to sit back and look at other vehicles and determine what you like. Determine the engine and transmission. Formulate a plan and then stick to it. I have seen a number of people see something after completing most of their build and decide to change theirs. One thing if it is their labor but if a shop is doing the work, redoing something is real expensive.
It is like building a house. Changes to a stock plan while in the planning stage is minimal cost, but a change order once the basement is dug gets expensive, even if they have not gotten to that stage where the change is involved.
So now is the time to sit back with your son and plan this out. A week or two thinking and planning now will save time and money later.
 
So, let me run a different scenario. I hat if he built a 9 to 9.5:1 engine, decent cam and Holley Sniper. Power wise how would that compare to a 8:1 engine running 6 pounds of boost? Just curious as I’m trying to keep the cab of worms we have to open to only a medium sized can LOL
 
Jerry Miller said:
So, let me run a different scenario. I hat if he built a 9 to 9.5:1 engine, decent cam and Holley Sniper. Power wise how would that compare to a 8:1 engine running 6 pounds of boost? Just curious as I’m trying to keep the cab of worms we have to open to only a medium sized can LOL
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Well, back in about 61 and compact cars were coming on strong NASCAR decided to try a compact class. Ford showed up with 140 cube 6 cylinder water heaters in Falcons and the General brought out the 144 cube air heaters. The Mopar guys put the marine Hyper pac on a 170 cube Valiant.10.5:1 pistons, split header, a hotter ca than the Hyperpac came with, the 4 barrel long intake manifold and a bit larger 4V carb. Those Valiants that were not what could be called aerodynamic by a long shot were lapping Daytona at 128MPH. I expect the factory engineers did some magic work on the heads to aid performance. That compact class series only lasted one season as those little slants cleaned up, winning the first 7 or 8 places in every race. I don't think the General had the 4 1V carb engines for the Corvair yet, and the Ford water heaters had the cast in intake for a little 1V carb.
I still recommend watching the DV 17:1 Youtube video. You and your son could build that engine with 9:1 CR and run 87 octane fuel with the water injection DV mentions. A little bit of boost wakes an engine up big time, and that blower would provide a nice linear power curve.
To keep costs down, get the EFI off a GM 3800 Series 2. If you boost the engine look for the supercharged engine to grab the controls from. You may (probably) need to get the crank pulley/damper to get the ignition trigger off. For a throttle body, grab one off a throttle body injected 5.7 V8 and remove the injectors or use the injectors to spray the water.
 
RustyRatRod said:
The only thing I can think of is calling Wiseco. Since they offer the piston for the 198 rod conversion, they'll make a forged stock replacement, I'm sure. But as you elude to, they won't be cheap.
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If you get the pistons made, consider calling Totalseal Piston rings regarding a recommendation by them on the rings before ordering the pistons. Do the research up front. Narrower modern rings create lower friction and wear. When ordering the pistons you will need to be able to tell them the rings you are going to use, the ring width and the required ring groove depth. Then you may be able to get the ring grooves hard anodized for durability and an anti wear skirt coating.
DSS may make pistons with their patented X grooves that spread oil from the oil ring across the piston skirt to reduce friction and wear. With the correct cam for a blower application I could see 275 to 300HP and reliable.
 
RustyRatRod said:
You guys SUCK. I shouldn't have ever even pend this thread. Now I'm really thinking about a boosted engine. lol Maybe next build.
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Coming soon to a closed chamber cylinder head near you....
 
Jerry Miller said:
So, let me run a different scenario. I hat if he built a 9 to 9.5:1 engine, decent cam and Holley Sniper. Power wise how would that compare to a 8:1 engine running 6 pounds of boost? Just curious as I’m trying to keep the cab of worms we have to open to only a medium sized can LOL
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A 9:1 slant will be down 70-100 hp over a 8:1 slant on 6-8 psi.

Lots of over thinking goin on. Build a slant, put on blower, put on sniper, pump it full of 91 octane, hit gas, smile ear to ear.
 
TT5.9mag said:
A 9:1 slant will be down 70-100 hp over a 8:1 slant on 6-8 psi.

Lots of over thinking goin on. Build a slant, put on blower, put on sniper, pump it full of 91 octane, hit gas, smile ear to ear.
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Thank you for the numbers. I agree, I’m getting hung up on a lot of details that won’t matter. I do have one small issue though. Looks like the torque storm is designed to run without powersteering. I saw this over on slantsix. One guy had a work around but not sure how well it worked. We can’t nix the ps
 
Jerry Miller said:
Thank you for the numbers. I agree, I’m getting hung up on a lot of details that won’t matter. I do have one small issue though. Looks like the torque storm is designed to run without powersteering. I saw this over on slantsix. One guy had a work around but not sure how well it worked. We can’t nix the ps
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There is electric power steering kits and it’s becoming more popular in the hot rod world and easy to adapt. I’m doing it on my falcon.
 
Can't nix power steering? On a LIGHT A body?
 
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