TR6060 and TB suspension? Any info on the starter interference?

[DionR]

Do you know if anyone is running those mounts on an A-body at all? I'm just thinking that there's going to be very little room for fans and pulleys up front. On a B/E the radiator clearance is a whole different ball game.

I don't. Valid concern.

Just went out and took some quick measurements of my current setup and the mockup.

Looks like it is about 2.5" to the end of the crank pulley on the 5.7 to the pinch weld on the k-frame. Note this is a truck crank pulley, not sure if a car is shorter or longer, but I'm pretty sure they are different.

My current 360 w/ PS is about 1.75" from the end of the crank pulley to the pinch weld.

So the accessory drive on the Hemi will be something like 3/4" tighter.

 

[72bluNblu]

I don't. Valid concern.

Just went out and took some quick measurements of my current setup and the mockup.

Looks like it is about 2.5" to the end of the crank pulley on the 5.7 to the pinch weld on the k-frame. Note this is a truck crank pulley, not sure if a car is shorter or longer, but I'm pretty sure they are different.

My current 360 w/ PS is about 1.75" from the end of the crank pulley to the pinch weld.

So the accessory drive on the Hemi will be something like 3/4" tighter.

Yikes. I mean, my set up is probably not the thinnest possible, but I don't have 3/4" to give with the 3 core 26" radiator, Contour fans and the serpentine pulley on my 340. As it is mine works because the fan motors are offset and away from the water pump pulley.

 

[DionR]

Yikes. I mean, my set up is probably not the thinnest possible, but I don't have 3/4" to give with the 3 core 26" radiator, Contour fans and the serpentine pulley on my 340. As it is mine works because the fan motors are offset and away from the water pump pulley.

Any idea how far from the crank pulley to the k-frame pinch weld on your setup?

 

[DionR]

Yikes. I mean, my set up is probably not the thinnest possible, but I don't have 3/4" to give with the 3 core 26" radiator, Contour fans and the serpentine pulley on my 340. As it is mine works because the fan motors are offset and away from the water pump pulley.

Can't see the picture, I but I found this one in your build thread. Same one?

That setup looks pretty different than the Hemi serpentine setup. There shouldn't be that projection at the water pump, much more slim.

 

[72bluNblu]

Oh it’s a totally different set up, I get that. The LA water pump shaft sticks really far forward, it’s hard to tell but I’d say the front of the water pump is probably only a 1/4” behind the front face of that pulley.

I don’t know it off hand, but I can get you a crank pulley to K frame measurement. You just need the front face of the pulley to the front edge of the pinch weld on the K?

 

[DionR]

I don’t know it off hand, but I can get you a crank pulley to K frame measurement. You just need the front face of the pulley to the front edge of the pinch weld on the K?

It’s just a curiosity, I think it will be ok and either way I will make it work. Just another data point.

Yes, I measured from the face of the pulley to the front edge. Now that I think about it, yours will be different since you are running a wide belt and no power steering pulley.

 

[392heminut]

To use the QT bell on a Challenger TR6060, you have to change the input shaft and midplate. It's about $650 for those parts, plus another $916 for the bell. If I went aftermarket T56 Magnum, the bell is still required so not sure it is fair to include that other than to say that a used TR6060 at $1800 would run $3366 in total to get it bolted to the motor. Compared to $1800 if I could use the TR6060 as is, the $3366 is a significant difference.

As far as I know, no one makes an aftermarket bell to work with the Mopar TR6060 that put's the starter on the drivers side. There are aftermarket ones, but they keep the PS starter location.

A used TR6060 and $650 in parts to use the aftermarket bell isn't a bad price, still $1000 less than a new T56 Magnum. But it still requires the output adapter and special drive shaft, plus you don't have a speedometer output so additional parts. That kind of eats up the $1000 savings pretty fast and makes it a little harder to justify. If the TR6060 just fit, then it makes more sense, in my mind.

This whole post made my head hurt! Damn I'm glad I went with a lowly TF727 in my swap!

 

[DionR]

This whole post made my head hurt! Damn I'm glad I went with a lowly TF727 in my swap!

I understand!

At the same I am going to be really glad when (if?) I am cruising down the freeway running 1500 RPM at 65 or 70 mph.

 

[72bluNblu]

It’s just a curiosity, I think it will be ok and either way I will make it work. Just another data point.

Yes, I measured from the face of the pulley to the front edge. Now that I think about it, yours will be different since you are running a wide belt and no power steering pulley.

Front face of the crank pulley to back to the pinch weld on the K is ~1 3/8"

Front face of the crank pulley to the radiator core is 5 3/8"

Back face of the fan motors are 3.5" from the radiator core.

Back face of the Contour fan shroud is 2 5/8" from the edge of the belt.

Not sure if you can translate any of that over to mean anything with the different engine. 1.75" does seem like a LONG ways to move forward, but the water pump sticks out so far on an LA maybe it's fine.

I understand!

At the same I am going to be really glad when (if?) I am cruising down the freeway running 1500 RPM at 65 or 70 mph.

The overdrive gears are a real game changer. Now I didn’t set mine up to be that low of an RPM at cruise, I run 4.30’s and a 27.3” tall rear tire and the .63 overdrive in 6th puts me at about 2,300 rpm. But that’s fine, the cam and the way my 340 is built it doesn’t like to pull much below 2k.

But going from 3.55’s and a 1:1 4th gear it’s still a huge difference. My engine/cam hated the 3.55’s at take off, Lunati specs a 3.91 for that cam and I understand why. Now I have a much better final drive ratio for first and I can still cruise easily at 70-75mph. With my new commute being mostly highway vs freeway I don't even use 6th all that much. The .80 5th is basically like a 3.44 rear gear for a 1:1 transmission, the .63 6th is like running 2.7's.

 

[DionR]

Front face of the crank pulley to back to the pinch weld on the K is ~1 3/8"

Front face of the crank pulley to the radiator core is 5 3/8"

Back face of the fan motors are 3.5" from the radiator core.

Back face of the Contour fan shroud is 2 5/8" from the edge of the belt.

Not sure if you can translate any of that over to mean anything with the different engine. 1.75" does seem like a LONG ways to move forward, but the water pump sticks out so far on an LA maybe it's fine.

Thanks!

The overdrive gears are a real game changer.

I plan to set mine up to run just like my 2015 R/T did. With the smaller 245/45R17 tires, a 3.55 gear will be virtually identical to the 3.90 gear the Challenger had, and with the 5.7 and the same 2.97/0.50 gears, it should run down the road just like a new Challenger. Minus the wind noise, lack of sound deadening, etc....

 

[DionR]

The TR6060 swap without changing the mid plate and input shaft might be back on the table. Guy on FB said he built an adapter to use a BB Powermaster starter and has steering, TB and header clearance.

He said it is a tight fit and he had to swap the gear on the starter, but looks to be a workable solution.

Nice job!

 

[72bluNblu]

The TR6060 swap without changing the mid plate and input shaft might be back on the table. Guy on FB said he built an adapter to use a BB Powermaster starter and has steering, TB and header clearance.

View attachment 1715974084

He said it is a tight fit and he had to swap the gear on the starter, but looks to be a workable solution.

Nice job!

View attachment 1715974085

Nice!!!

Definitely watching to see how that goes, being able to use a complete GIII takeout with the TR6060 would make that swap a lot more palatable

 

[DionR]

Do you know if anyone is running those mounts on an A-body at all? I'm just thinking that there's going to be very little room for fans and pulleys up front. On a B/E the radiator clearance is a whole different ball game.

Just to follow up on this, Ehrenburg is doing a G3 swaps series in two A-Bodies (the second one being the Green Brick) in Mopar Action. He is using the Holley mounts for at least the first one and in the most recent article he did have to clearance the fan shroud due to interference with the water pump or something. So you are right that moving the motor forward causes some challenges with the FEAD clearances.

Seems like six of one, half dozen of the other. My brother is doing a 6.4 swap into a Demon and had to remove the bottom stud for the wiper motor to get his Edelbrock intake to bolt down. And there was no way he was going to be able to run the SRV solenoid on the stock 6.4 intake he tried. Add that the Holley mounts mean you can run the stock FEAD and low mount AC compressor if you want. So making some things work means others are tight.

To be clear, in wasn't like Ehrenburg couldn't get things to fit, only that it took some minor trimming. Now, he used a LX/LC radiator and fan setup which could be slimmer than some might want to run which means a thick 8 core ( ) radiator might not work.

 

[DionR]

Just to follow up on this, Ehrenburg is doing a G3 swaps series in two A-Bodies (the second one being the Green Brick) in Mopar Action. He is using the Holley mounts for at least the first one and in the most recent article he did have to clearance the fan shroud due to interference with the water pump or something. So you are right that moving the motor forward causes some challenges with the FEAD clearances.

Seems like six of one, half dozen of the other. My brother is doing a 6.4 swap into a Demon and had to remove the bottom stud for the wiper motor to get his Edelbrock intake to bolt down. And there was no way he was going to be able to run the SRV solenoid on the stock 6.4 intake he tried. Add that the Holley mounts mean you can run the stock FEAD and low mount AC compressor if you want. So making some things work means others are tight.

To be clear, in wasn't like Ehrenburg couldn't get things to fit, only that it took some minor trimming. Now, he used a LX/LC radiator and fan setup which could be slimmer than some might want to run which means a thick 8 core ( ) radiator might not work.

But wait, there's more!

I guess the swap in question used the Holley FEAD kit which, I guess, adds length to the motor. No idea how much, but it sounds like while the stock FEAD might be tight, it should be even less of an issue than with the Holley stuff.

 

[KosmicKuda]

Holley has one kit for all G3 and it moves the engine/trans 1-3/4" forward. That is NOT required for the 5.7. It helps on the 6.4 because of the variable intake manifold clearance with the firewall. Curtdog510 on here pocketed his firewall for clearance and retained the stock wiper system without mods. My 5.7 fits just fine with TTI stuff and why would I want to move weight forward?

I was talking to a manufacturer about Eberg one time and it was very interesting. He likes to get free things. Hello Holley? He's 15 years late on this one anyway.

 

[DionR]

Holley has one kit for all G3 and it moves the engine/trans 1-3/4" forward. That is NOT required for the 5.7. It helps on the 6.4 because of the variable intake manifold clearance with the firewall. Curtdog510 on here pocketed his firewall for clearance and retained the stock wiper system without mods. My 5.7 fits just fine with TTI stuff and why would I want to move weight forward?

Comes down to what each person wants.

I have a couple of reason to want to use the Holley stuff. 1. I don’t want to pocket my firewall but I do want to run a 6.4 intake on my 5.7. 2. I can run the OEM FEAD which includes the low mount AC compressor.

Oh, and I can run an oil filter adapter instead of a remote filter.

Granted, I would prefer not to have to move the motor forward. And if I didn’t care about the SRV intake or was ok with a $2600+ FEAD maybe I wouldn’t. But I want both.

If I was building a race car, absolutely I wouldn’t want the motor forward. But I’m not and I doubt I will notice the difference.

 

[DionR]

Here is another solution to run a TR6060 in an A-Body:

Lakewood LK7400K Lakewood Bellhousing Kit - Mopar - Gen III Hemi to TR-6060

This Lakewood cast aluminum bellhousing connects Mopar Gen III Hemi engines to the OE Mopar version TR-6060 Transmission. Designed as a compact, lightweight, and inexpensive option for transmission swaps not needing SFI certification, the LK7400K attaches in a factory-like manner and is...

www.holley.com

This gives the option to run a DS starter and avoids the issues with the idler arm.

They also have a new bellhousing to mate a G3 to a 4L80E/85E