turbo 6 bangers post here

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Something like this Bill I'm planning on using one of these
Check out this item I found on eBay:

3 4" 5" Screen Filter Paxton turbo

Link: http://www.ebay.com/itm/3-4-5-Screen-Filter-Paxton-Novi2000-turbo-camaro-/250690478332

Thanks, Aaron. That one looks like it would work, but it is totally different from the one I saw a picture of, somewhere.

The one I saw was a coarse metal mesh, with a slight convex shape, and was rounded. Slamm enough mesh that it looked like it could stop a b-b from an air rifle. but was robust, so if a big piece of anything hit it, it wouldn't distort much.

I'm gonna look around before I buy one, but I'm definitely going to buy one.
 
Here's a quick video of the TOAD running the turbo isn't hooked up I needed to check for leaks oil/water/fuel/trans fuild I was fortunate not to find any yet but I still have to check the turbo and Intake Manifold
I'll be posting some more later in the week ENJOY

[ame]http://static.photobucket.com/player.swf?file=http://vid1109.photobucket.com/albums/h431/srixon4406/VID_20120514_144709.mp4[/ame]
 
Here's a quick video of the TOAD running the turbo isn't hooked up I needed to check for leaks oil/water/fuel/trans fuild I was fortunate not to find any yet but I still have to check the turbo and Intake Manifold
I'll be posting some more later in the week ENJOY

http://static.photobucket.com/playe...lbums/h431/srixon4406/VID_20120514_144709.mp4

Can't get the video to play... says it causes IE to close...

I have no idea what's going on (computer idiot here...)
 
Can't get the video to play... says it causes IE to close...

I have no idea what's going on (computer idiot here...)

Anybody else having problems viewing the video? I tried uploading it to YouTube and the quality stinks I can watch it play that's strange
 
I have previously gotten a lot of good info on here about where to start. But as I get closer to gathering the last of my parts I was wondering if I could get some help from you guys.
I am not building a 400hp car, just a simple Turbo Six that will hopefully be in the 275-300hp range with around 10psi boost. My questions regard carb choice. All the blow through carbs are what I would consider over kill in the cfm department for my build. I was thinking something like a 390cfm Holley 4 Barrel, I understand the floats will need changed and an electric choke is out but does it need to be a blow through type carb for a mild build such as this one?
My last question is about secondaries. If I am able to use a non blow through carb will vacuum secondaries function properly under boost? Or are mechanicals recommended?
Thanks for the help and info
 
I have previously gotten a lot of good info on here about where to start. But as I get closer to gathering the last of my parts I was wondering if I could get some help from you guys.
I am not building a 400hp car, just a simple Turbo Six that will hopefully be in the 275-300hp range with around 10psi boost. My questions regard carb choice. All the blow through carbs are what I would consider over kill in the cfm department for my build. I was thinking something like a 390cfm Holley 4 Barrel, I understand the floats will need changed and an electric choke is out but does it need to be a blow through type carb for a mild build such as this one?
My last question is about secondaries. If I am able to use a non blow through carb will vacuum secondaries function properly under boost? Or are mechanicals recommended?
Thanks for the help and info

I think you can have a LOT of fun with a turbo'd slant 6 and ten pounds of boost!

That will gIve you the capability to run a stock head, pistons and rods, cam and practically everything else except for the intake system and turbo-mount on the exhaust manifold.

I'd think that 300 HP would be achievable with that stuff. That will give you a car that should run toe-to-toe with a 340 V8-powered A body car such s Dart or Duster as long as it's stock. AND, FOR LESS MONEY...

I am told that vacuum secondary carbs will not work in a blow-thru environment. I odn't KNOW that it's true but I have never read otherwise.

My 2 cars that are blow-thru are both equipped with 4bbl Holleys that have mechanical secondaries.

Having said that, I'd also like to say that for a buildup like yours, I believe that the better setup would be a Holley 2bbl, like a 350 or 500. That will be plenty of carburation for 300 HP and has much less complication than a 4bbl. The intake manifold would be cheaaper, too, with a Super Six manifold filling the bill, nicely. They's cheap, too, compared to a 4bbl aftermarket manifold. The carb;s cheaper, too...

I WOULD recommend an alcohol/water injector from a reputable manufacturer like Snowperformance, as it should allow you to run premium pump gas without detonating the ring lands off your pistons, and blowing a head gasket. Those units are $300.00, but it's money well-spent on a car like this. They really work...

You won't need to change your rear axle RATIO, for best performance as turbo's slant 6's seem to like gears in the high 2's... so, if you have a 7.25" rear, you might want to think about just going to a junkyard and pulling a complete 8.25" unit (plentiful and cheap) out of a late Duster ('72, 3, or 4...) and bolting it right in. Pleant strong!!!

Wait; I don't know what yuor car is, but I'm assuming it's an A body, right? LOL!

Welcome to te "club!" Boost is addictive!!!:cheers:

BILL
 
I think you can have a LOT of fun with a turbo'd slant 6 and ten pounds of boost!

That will gIve you the capability to run a stock head, pistons and rods, cam and practically everything else except for the intake system and turbo-mount on the exhaust manifold.

I'd think that 300 HP would be achievable with that stuff. That will give you a car that should run toe-to-toe with a 340 V8-powered A body car such s Dart or Duster as long as it's stock. AND, FOR LESS MONEY...

I am told that vacuum secondary carbs will not work in a blow-thru environment. I odn't KNOW that it's true but I have never read otherwise.

My 2 cars that are blow-thru are both equipped with 4bbl Holleys that have mechanical secondaries.

Having said that, I'd also like to say that for a buildup like yours, I believe that the better setup would be a Holley 2bbl, like a 350 or 500. That will be plenty of carburation for 300 HP and has much less complication than a 4bbl. The intake manifold would be cheaaper, too, with a Super Six manifold filling the bill, nicely. They's cheap, too, compared to a 4bbl aftermarket manifold. The carb;s cheaper, too...

I WOULD recommend an alcohol/water injector from a reputable manufacturer like Snowperformance, as it should allow you to run premium pump gas without detonating the ring lands off your pistons, and blowing a head gasket. Those units are $300.00, but it's money well-spent on a car like this. They really work...

You won't need to change your rear axle RATIO, for best performance as turbo's slant 6's seem to like gears in the high 2's... so, if you have a 7.25" rear, you might want to think about just going to a junkyard and pulling a complete 8.25" unit (plentiful and cheap) out of a late Duster ('72, 3, or 4...) and bolting it right in. Pleant strong!!!

Wait; I don't know what yuor car is, but I'm assuming it's an A body, right? LOL!

Welcome to te "club!" Boost is addictive!!!:cheers:

BILL
Perfect info thank you. My new question then is at what point do you suggest mechanical secondaries open on a boosted system. Should I only have them open under full boost?
68 valiant is the car I am actively seeking and the plan is as stated around a 300hp engine and i plan on lightening the car in as many ways possible so my HP to weight should end up in a pretty cool spot once its all said and done. I also noticed you suggested 340 valve springs in a different post. Do you think I would see benefit in my system if plan on stock heads, and cam?
Thanks
Joel
 
Perfect info thank you. My new question then is at what point do you suggest mechanical secondaries open on a boosted system. Should I only have them open under full boost?
68 valiant is the car I am actively seeking and the plan is as stated around a 300hp engine and i plan on lightening the car in as many ways possible so my HP to weight should end up in a pretty cool spot once its all said and done. I also noticed you suggested 340 valve springs in a different post. Do you think I would see benefit in my system if plan on stock heads, and cam?
Thanks
Joel

Please understand one thing, here: I am JUST LIKE YOU, in that I am building my first-ever turbocharged car and my first-ever slant six.

When you read my comments on your project (which, BTW, I think is a VERY cool one!!!) keep that in mind; I am NOT any kind of an expert on this stuff, and most of what I have learned about slant 6's and turbos, I learned right here, just like you're doing.

That doesn't mean I don't have opinions, unfounded though they may be. What I DO have that may give me SOME insight into this buisness, is a lifetime of hands-on, hot rodding experience in trying to make things go fast. I am 73 years old, so, the term "a lifetime" does mean something... LOL!

Insofar as your 4bbl question, I really don't see the need for a 4bbl carburetor on that car in any way, shape, or form. I think it's an unnecessary complication added to an already complicated-enough problem, and is more expensive to boot. On top of all that, I can't see it making a bit more horsepower than a Holley 2-bbl would, especially, at the boost levels you are going to run. The carburetor is more expensive, the manifold is more expensive, and the mods to the carb will be more expensive. And, for what?

Why would you want to do it???

The 340 springs are a good alternative valve spring for this engine, yes, but let me tell you another thing I have learned about these engines by listening carefully to the guys who actually KNOW what they're talking about: A turbo'd slant six doesn't run well above 5,500 rpm. None of them seem to. Even the really powerful ones that seem to make 500+ horsepower are all done by 5,500 rpm.

That means that heavy valve springs in a low-boost engine such as yours are a waste of time, money and energy. I don't see any sense in increasing the load on your cam by putting heavier springs than what is needed on your engine. It's going to make its power for the most part, below 5,000 rpm, and as long as you leave your stock cam in place (which should work fine with the turbo,) stronger valve springs probably won't benefit you at all, and could put your cam at risk.

Spend that money on a Snowperformance Boost Cooler. THAT is something you really DO need...

Next time, we'll talk about ignition. Since there are no high-rpm issues, there's not a lot of upgrading to do there, but limiting the advance is a very important item! Boosted engines don't need nearly as much spark advance as normally-aspirated ones. It seems as how the flame front travels much faster under boost. Those 500hp engines only run a total of 18 degrees, I am told... and that's not much!

Good luck!!!:smile:

Bill
 
I have to say I think you are right I am going to go with a 2 barrel. Keep it simple stupid as they say. But definitely lets talk about ignition and timing. I'll be going with an electric ignition system and actually looking through summit the other day I noticed they have a system that attaches to their electric ignition that will retard timing as you build boost. It is adjustable based on the needs and wants of the motor. I am not 100% sold on this but I do think it could help with the what I've heard is the not so fun task of tuning.
My question is where to start. I have seen where people are retarding the timing and degree of cam to what I would say are crazy numbers. But it is hard to say where to start since we are in no way dealing with exact setups or new motors, some slants are going to be more "tired" then others.
 
I have to say I think you are right I am going to go with a 2 barrel. Keep it simple stupid as they say. But definitely lets talk about ignition and timing. I'll be going with an electric ignition system and actually looking through summit the other day I noticed they have a system that attaches to their electric ignition that will retard timing as you build boost. It is adjustable based on the needs and wants of the motor. I am not 100% sold on this but I do think it could help with the what I've heard is the not so fun task of tuning.
My question is where to start. I have seen where people are retarding the timing and degree of cam to what I would say are crazy numbers. But it is hard to say where to start since we are in no way dealing with exact setups or new motors, some slants are going to be more "tired" then others.

Well, I just stupidly lost a 3-page note about this to you... and don't have time to re-create it now.

Your stock electronic ignition system will work fine with a 10-pounds of boost system, no need for other $$$$$ options. The one thing that could be handy to have, is an MSD Boostmaster retard control. Summit sells them for about $250, but they are not something you HAVE to have...

Used up all my time; gotta run now, but the thing to remember is to NEVER let your engine experience more than 18 degrees of spark advance under boost. That's plenty and willl keep you out of trouble (detonation.)

Glad to note that a 2-bbl will be your choice of carbs; It will make lots of power and will be simpler and cheaper to build and tune.

More later; You're gettin' there.... :)
 
My question is where to start. I have seen where people are retarding the timing and degree of cam to what I would say are crazy numbers. But it is hard to say where to start since we are in no way dealing with exact setups or new motors, some slants are going to be more "tired" then others.

I'd start HERE:

The word on the street is, that slant 6's that are running boost should limit the total mechanical advance to 18 degrees, total.
That's to prevent detonation.

Here's an easy way to do that:

First, make sure that your timing mark on the vibration dampener is accutately positioned at when the crank's at Top Dead Center. That's in relation to the factory pointer, or timing marker that's on the front cover plate, near the bottom.

Usuakky, they are (correctly positioned.) but not always, and it's easy to check.

The easiest way to do that is, to acquire a Top Dead Center tool (Summit probably has 'em, or Jeg's,) that will screw into the #1 sparkplug hole, just like a sparkplug does. This tool has an adjustable probe that sticks down a little way into the cylinder and will contact the piston at some point, preventing the piston from coming all the way to the top of its normal travel. The probe end of the tool should be adjusted to a length that will stop the piston about an inch from the top of its normal travel.

Turn the crank with a socket on the crank's center bolt head, slowly and gently, until the piston hits the tool. Once it won't go any further, scribe a mark on the vibration dampener (bottom pulley,) in reference to the factory-installed timing pointer, using a sharp, pointed object, like an awl. Then reverse the rotation of the crank and turn it as far as it will go in the other direction, and scribe another mark, again, in reference to the timing pointer.

Now, split the difference in those two marks and you'll have an accurate Top Dead Center location at the pointer. If the factory did their job right, the original timing pointer SHOULD be pointing at that mark you just made.

Once you have that mark, and have ascertained that the pointer is telling you accurately, where TDC (top-dead-center) really is, you can find the eighteeen-degree location for your total timing mark (which will be used to set the timing) by accurately measuring the circumference of the vibration dampener (bottom pulley) and dividing by 20. There are 360 degrees in a circle; eighteen degrees is one-twentieth of 360. Like, DUH...

Or, put another way, measure a distance of 1/20 of the circumference of the dampener, measuring from the TDC location you just verified using that TDC tool) and make a mark with a sharpie on the vibration dampener at that point and you have your "eighteen degrees before TDC" timing location verified.

DISCONNECT AND PLUG THE VACUUM ADVANCE LINE.

Loosen the clamp bolt that holds the distributor from rotating. Leave it just snug enough that you can, with some effort, rotate the distributor, but not "loose." You don't want it to turn on its own...

Start the engine.

Now, while the engine is running, with your timing light hooked up, you can slightly rotatethe distributor body, and watch the spark move around, forward and back, on the vibration dampener, as the engine runs...

Have someone work the throttle and run the rpm up to the point that the distributor won't advance any further. You can see, with a timing light. that at some point, the movement (advance) will "hit a wall," and stop advancing. Probably about 3.500 rpm (you need a tach to do this right.)

Now, that the engine is running at that RPM or above, just watch the timing mark advance 'til it gets to the eighteen degree mark that you scribed into the vibration dampener clamp the distributor down using the factory bolt, and you're all set.

You MAY have to adjust the bolt that's on the bottom side of the distributor to get enough movement to accomplish this, but maybe not. That bolt is there, but you can't see it without pulling the distributor out, or using a hand-held mirror. It's pretty-well out of sight...

If I were you, I'd leave the vacuum hose disconnected for a while. You don't need that added complication at this point. Having it disconnected won't hurt anything.

The ideal situation would be to modify your distribuor so that there's only about ten degrees of advance (on the crank) built into the advance mechanism, but that may not be necessary. I'd try it "stock," first.

If it's unduly "lazy" at low rpm, you may have to do that to get suffucuent spark advance at low rpm...

I hope this gives you a place to start. Ignition timing is critical on these turbo engines, to ensure longivity (no detonation.)

Any questions, just ask; somebody here will know....

:happy1:
 
Sounds good Bill I can't wait to see some video and hear that beast running, yes the walbro is a nice little piece of hardware I just replaced one yesterday I'm doing some test runs without the turbo hooked up now as we speak just to clean the header out of any unwanted debris before the turbo is installed
I've plumbed in all my water line for the turbo and Intake Manifold also my oil lines for the turbo ill probably plumb in the IC piping in today or tomorrow
I'll try and post some video in the next day or two
Aaron

Still not finished, but here's an update:

The fuel system is done to the point that we bolted the Holley 4-bbl that Tom Wolfe had modified for blow-thru for us, and put the hood on the car. With the SPECTRE bonnet in place, it clears the bottom of the hood by about half an inch, so HALLEUJAH!!!! We are going to have a FLAT HOOD!!! NO scoops!:blob::prayer:
That's the good news; the bad news was that Holley 4bbls like we use, have the fuel entrance to the float bowls on the passenger side of the carburetor. However, the throttle linkage is on the driver's side. We ran the fuel line from the trunk, up the driver's side of the car, finally coming to rest on the inner fender panel (driver's side,) because we didn't want the regulator-to-carb lines running clear across the whole engine compartment.

THEN, we realized that, if the carb was installed in its correct front-to-rear orientation, the fuel lines would have to come from the regulator and go around the carburetor to make entrance to the needle and seat fitttings.

The good news...

I learned that there is a Holley float bowl for this carburetor that has "fuel-intake" fittings on BOTH sides of the float bowl (#134-108,) for the carb we're using (4150 750cfm, double pumper.) You just plug the one you don't need. Cool!!!

So, as soon as those arrive (maybe Tue. or Wednesday,) we can run two short, braided, #6 lines from the regulator to the carb, and the fuel system is done... minus a couple of pressure gauges.

Then, there's a fair amount of wiring to be done, and a couple of relays to install, and a trip to the front-end shop for alignment,.... and she's ready for prime time.... Oops... seat belt/shoulder-harness installation and a driveshaft loop... Dang!!!

Guess I was a little premature (what else is new???):violent1:
 
:worthles::worthles:

Bill post some pics of the final assembly also get us some video footage

Aaron

I apologize, Aaron; this picture, taken yesterday, was SUPPOSED to be in that last post. Didn't make it.:banghead:

Here is what I was trying to post...:cheers:

Still have some important details to take care of, but, we're gettin' there. Video will be awhile....

How's your coming along?

Bill
 

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Bill you and Freddie are amazing it looks awesome:prayer:

As for the TOAD I'm trying to take care of all the little time consuming things but I need to put my drive shaft together and install it then I can check operation of the drive train and if all goes well turbo goes back on and then it's off to the exhaust and alignment shop but unfortunately we've been in the middle of our summer maintenance shutdown here at the plant not to mention its been mid to upper 90's here in Michigan and after working 70 plus hours for the last two weeks I'm exhausted but I'm off for one day on Sundays if the weather permits and I feel like working in the garage there's a good possibility that I may put some time in the garage but we will have to see

Please keep us posted Bill
Aaron
 
Bill you and Freddie are amazing it looks awesome:prayer:

As for the TOAD I'm trying to take care of all the little time consuming things but I need to put my drive shaft together and install it then I can check operation of the drive train and if all goes well turbo goes back on and then it's off to the exhaust and alignment shop but unfortunately we've been in the middle of our summer maintenance shutdown here at the plant not to mention its been mid to upper 90's here in Michigan and after working 70 plus hours for the last two weeks I'm exhausted but I'm off for one day on Sundays if the weather permits and I feel like working in the garage there's a good possibility that I may put some time in the garage but we will have to see

Please keep us posted Bill
Aaron

Thanks for the kind words, Aaron. It doesn't look like it in that picture, but the top of that carb bonnet clears the bottom of the (flat) hood by about 1/2-inch; no need for a scoop or bulge. That made ME happy!!! :)

I have some graphics (decals) that I had made in the style and size (and color) that copy, exactly, the look of the "340 wedge" decals on the hood of the 1971-'72 340 Dusters. But the lettering says "234 Turbo" instead of "340 Wedge." Having a flat hood with no scoop will allow us to use those decals (put on at about a 45-degree angle, like the orignals) to reproduce the look of a 340 Duster (flat black hood paint.)

I'll have some more pictures, late tonight, to post.

Sounds like you've had your hands full, working so much. Take your time and do it right; you always do!

Bill
 
Bill you and Freddie are amazing it looks awesome:prayer:

As for the TOAD I'm trying to take care of all the little time consuming things but I need to put my drive shaft together and install it then I can check operation of the drive train and if all goes well turbo goes back on and then it's off to the exhaust and alignment shop but unfortunately we've been in the middle of our summer maintenance shutdown here at the plant not to mention its been mid to upper 90's here in Michigan and after working 70 plus hours for the last two weeks I'm exhausted but I'm off for one day on Sundays if the weather permits and I feel like working in the garage there's a good possibility that I may put some time in the garage but we will have to see

Please keep us posted Bill
Aaron

Well, I promised some more pictures, so here they are. Still need to install the Snowperformance Boost Cooler, the Moroso Accu-Sump, and the MSD 6-AL digital unit. That orange box needs to go.... OH, and the driveshaft loop.

If it's one thing,, it's two...:banghead:
 

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Bill it looks great I'd like to see the hotside piping if and when you have the time to take a couple more pics oh DONT FORGET TO PUT A HOSE CLAMP ON YOUR FUEL RETURN LINE ON THAT REGULATOR
Did you decide to leave the front bumper off? If so it looks good I think the hood graphics are going to look fantastic I'm impressed you and Freddie have put alot of time and thought oh yah and money into your valiant and all us younger guys should be inspired by you twos persistent
Looking forward to seeing some more
Aaron
 
Bill it looks great I'd like to see the hotside piping if and when you have the time to take a couple more pics oh DONT FORGET TO PUT A HOSE CLAMP ON YOUR FUEL RETURN LINE ON THAT REGULATOR
Did you decide to leave the front bumper off? If so it looks good I think the hood graphics are going to look fantastic I'm impressed you and Freddie have put alot of time and thought oh yah and money into your valiant and all us younger guys should be inspired by you twos persistent
Looking forward to seeing some more
Aaron

Aaron,

That's just a piece of rubber tubing acting as a grommet... that's not the return line. LOOKS like the return line, but it's not... The return line is 3/8" aluminum with a flare fitting at the regulator.

Freddie had to make an additional brace for the bottom-side of the intercooler; that's why the front bumper is off... but he likes the way it looks without the bumper, and it is "heavy"... :-| MIght just leave it off...

Thanks for the kind words. We're just two old codgers havin' fun here... If this thing runs within a full second of Ryan's car, we'll be VERY HAPPY!!!:cheers:

That's pretty fast for a couple of guys whose conbined age is 147... LOL!

Here are some better pictures of that return fitting at the regulator...:wack:
 

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I'm not sure if it matters Bill but here's a copy of the instructions and the return is supposed to be plumbed into the button atleast that's how I did mine
viewer.png

Maybe this will help
Aaron
 
Aaron said: " the return is supposed to be plumbed into the button atleast that's how I did mine"

What "button" are you talking about?

I read all those instructions and I never saw the word "button."

Where did you see that???
 
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