Twin Turbo 1971 Scamp Project

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Driveability? My car idles happily at 475 rpm, (makes 12-inches of vacuum for the power-brake booster,) has gobs of low-end torque (stock 318 converter) and basically has the road-manners of a stock 318, due to the very mild cam.

My contention is that you can have TONS of fun with a 3,000-pound hobby car without breaking the bank or reverting to swapping in a non-Mopar engine.

Then again, maybe I'm just gettin' o-l-d... LOL!

My 2-cents...:glasses7:

Bill, I love your car and your post! It's so nice to see how much fun and success you have had by sticking with your setup and upgrading it along the way.

I've been building cars for 30 years now and I appreciate your effort 110%!

My buddy Al just placed a class record in a little propane injected turbo Slant 6 Dart this weekend at Wilmington and it is his success with his Slant 6 and my Turbo Buick experiences that got me motivated with my build.
 
First off Cool for being different!!! Love it :twisted:
Second why a Toyota motor over the RB26 (assuming you want to inline motor vs v6)? I ask because my R34 gtr made over 1000hp at the wheels and was quite street able. Tip, have your waste gates blow out just under the edge of the wheel wells pointing up, if you do it right you can flip dress quite easily ask me how I know!

I love the RB26 but they seem to be a bit more money than the JDM Aristo takeouts. I have a cost budget to hit so I can help prove my point just a little bit with the car. I have friends with Pro Touring setups that have become high five figure builds. 450-500 isn't too hard on stock Supra engines and the car doesn't even really need that kind of power to be fun.
 
OMG!!! FAST AND FURIOUS!!

LoL! I say whatever floats your boat! I always said "No one builds engines like the Japs!!" I swear by Toyota. I have had several and they last forever. I beat the hell out of a 20R in my 1977 Toyota Celica GT Fastback when I was a kid in High School. All I ever did to it was change the oil, a battery, brake pads and a set of starter brushes. Oh, and about 15 sets of tires!! I still own a 97 Avalon that my wife drives every day. I also have a buddy that has a 95 Supra knocking on 900hp with a straight 6 twin turbo.

Go for it! You may surprise a few Mopar guys when they finally catch up with you to ask whats under the hood! LoL......

What's funny is that I've only ever watched the 1st F&F movie and I know they didn't swap any 2JZ's into old American Iron in that release!

BMW seems to do OK too!

I just flat out like the specs of the Supra setup vs my Slant 6. You know, stout shortblock, 7 main bearings, Killer Cylinder head, overdrive transmission, etc. I started toying with building a Slant; Megasquirt, doing a 4 barrel manifold and throttle body, adding boost, building a header, thinking about a trans and gearing of a Slant maybe even overdrive and realized that this would really cost more because of all the custom fab and engine machine work my Slant would have needed. In the end I might be able to coax 450 hp semi reliable HP and would of never stop hearing, "You should have build a V8 Car!"
 
With the money your going to spend to get better mpg AND power to do this swap, could you not have swapped in a 6.1 or 7.4 hemi and done the same thing with the same or less amount of money while having a much better sounding exhaust? Serious question. Not a crack on the build just to be clear

Supras don't sound that bad BTW! Some people LOVE that way they sound! My car will be really quiet however as the plan is a near daily driver. The Hemi swap would certainly be more expensive from a procurement perspective and while it's figured out already, there's things I don't need to buy, like headers, two exhaust pipes, etc. I do need to fab mounts, fuel system, exhaust, etc., and that's the same thing with an injected Hemi swap. Going carb costs money too! I can use the STOCK ECU on my Toyota engine but the Chrysler would force me into at least a Megasquirt and not even sure if that would do the transmission controls.

I think I'd just bite the bullet and buy a new Challenger with a Hemi if I wanted to do a V8. They are pretty cool. $51K for a Yellow 392 car isn't! :(
 
Now throw some boost at that sucker and you've got some power. You can work these up just as much as any mopar v8. But i think 500 might be a bit much for a reliable street motor. I think 350-400 will be easier, cheaper and more reliable. Do what you wish I'm just stating what i think here.

IMHO, gas mileage/reliability engine ill preach toyota ALLLL DAYYYY LONNGGG. old iron hp/reliability ill preach mopar all day long.

420hp seems happy point in BPU mode, (Toyota speak for Basic Performance Upgrade). 350 makes for a very fun driver! That 10/lbs per net HP rule of mine ALWAYS feels nice on the street! I just want the gang here to know that if we need to kill off a Stage 1 Buick or Chevy we will have the boost ready down the road!
 
This is a very cool idea that I have pondered over and over and I am glad to see someone taking the plunge with this. I am excited to see how this goes!

There simply is no better way to safely get a 40-50% over stock power increase than with a forced induction system.

I wish I could say that it was my idea but I really got this by seeing some Turbo Supra swaps that ran really well. I'm like why not I'll be lighter than a Supra and I have a solid rear axle for straight line.
 
Bill, I love your car and your post! It's so nice to see how much fun and success you have had by sticking with your setup and upgrading it along the way.

I've been building cars for 30 years now and I appreciate your effort 110%!

My buddy Al just placed a class record in a little propane injected turbo Slant 6 Dart this weekend at Wilmington and it is his success with his Slant 6 and my Turbo Buick experiences that got me motivated with my build.

Thanks for the kind words, Dave.

I was 43 years old 30 years ago... so, I've seen a lot of water go under the "automotive bridge" since then...

My racing partner is a year older than I am. Both of us have had a lifetime of normally-aspirated V8s, and wanted to try something a little different for this "bucket list" Valiant...

A couple of years ago, some enterprising young guy put a balls-out turbo'd Supra motor in a Camaro and got it featured in Hot Rod.

I thought it was super-cool, but you should have seen the mail... LOL!

Every engine has an "Achilie's heel." I wonder where the Slant six's is (relative to absorbing egregious amounts of boost)????

We many find out...:cheers:
 
There's no shortage of JDM Twin Turbo Toyota engines. Do a quick search on EBAY and you will see! As far as selling the car I'm not sure I will slap it together, hate the build and give up! I've done that building cool GM sleepers that nobody wanted unless I was giving them away. But there is just something I love about the Darts and Valiants. They are the perfect size to have fun with, look great, and their simplicity is welcomed in a world of 10 airbags, Tire Pressure Monitoring, Roll Over Protection and OnStar. Not a day goes by in our Sassy Grass Green Scamp that we don't get a thumbs up or a smile! You just don't get that kind of love in a Supra. Heck I never got it in a Chevelle or the 2 Camaros I've owned.

That being said I love modern engine technology. I like revving 7,000 rpm, I like the midrange torque of turbos, and I love the smoothness of an inline six. If at some point I want to make 700hp with this car I will be able to do it without too much rebuilding.

If I had a nice 340, Viper, New Hemi, for the same low price as this Toyota engine I'd would have considered any of those.

One thing is for certain, I promise you that when you see the car done you will be glad I saved it from getting scrapped, you might even appreciate somewhere in the back of your mind that the car is still as practical as it was with the Slant 6!

Frankly you motivate me even more to not just toss my engine into a Lexus IS300 and scare up a 340 for my little Valiant!


Good, I hope you blow the motor and someone with a brain buys it
 
Ugh, and you are from my home town (Detroit) and you are doing this atrocity... <shakes head>
 
Ugh, and you are from my home town (Detroit) and you are doing this atrocity... <shakes head>

You should get use to the head shake, you may be doing it a lot if you run into that valiant on the street/track as you watch it walk your ride like its standing still.
 
You should get use to the head shake, you may be doing it a lot if you run into that valiant on the street/track as you watch it walk your ride like its standing still.

Hmmm..Let me get it all done before you go shillin' for my races! ;) My intention is to not make it slow either. I will say that I creamed a built Supra pretty dang bad with my AWD Syclone powered Modded Turbo 4.3 1995 S10 Extended Cab on the street.

How about we wait and put our money down in the Spring? LOL!
 
Thanks for the kind words, Dave.

I was 43 years old 30 years ago... so, I've seen a lot of water go under the "automotive bridge" since then...

My racing partner is a year older than I am. Both of us have had a lifetime of normally-aspirated V8s, and wanted to try something a little different for this "bucket list" Valiant...

A couple of years ago, some enterprising young guy put a balls-out turbo'd Supra motor in a Camaro and got it featured in Hot Rod.

I thought it was super-cool, but you should have seen the mail... LOL!

Every engine has an "Achilie's heel." I wonder where the Slant six's is (relative to absorbing egregious amounts of boost)????

We many find out...:cheers:

I think the slant suffers from the lack of a cross flow head and a 4" stroke for hi rpm use. That being said Hyperpak 170s revved really high in the early sixties NASCAR series they ran in. My daughter's 71' runs incredible for a normally aspirated slant. I think if I wanted 220-230 rwhp I'd stay with the slant cause we've done the build over and over. You weren't happy at low 13's either but in the 80's we would be jumping up and down at that street performance!

If my car was a complete V8 car I would have done something similar to your build. Tim's yellow turbo Dart for sale on this forum is amazing as I ln
know the car real well. Outside of an LS I gotta go with the LA engine for great power potential.

The more quick street A Bodies we have the better IMHO!
I want to represent our cars at some of the import events to keep our youth interested in the beauty of our cars. I think this is a point that some will overlook. My interest in certain cars was driven by what I saw winning at the races. Cool part about what we do is that there is more than one good way to build a hot rod. Your last bit of Americana is on forums like this!
Everyone should love the fact that my teenaged daughter loves her Plymouth Scamp and her Dad has one right behind it!

Next time I head to Bentonville we should both head 90 miles and meet up in the middle Bill! Wal-Mart is a customer of ours.
 
I think the slant suffers from the lack of a cross flow head and a 4" stroke for hi rpm use. That being said Hyperpak 170s revved really high in the early sixties NASCAR series they ran in. My daughter's 71' runs incredible for a normally aspirated slant. I think if I wanted 220-230 rwhp I'd stay with the slant cause we've done the build over and over. You weren't happy at low 13's either but in the 80's we would be jumping up and down at that street performance!

If my car was a complete V8 car I would have done something similar to your build. Tim's yellow turbo Dart for sale on this forum is amazing as I ln
know the car real well. Outside of an LS I gotta go with the LA engine for great power potential.

The more quick street A Bodies we have the better IMHO!
I want to represent our cars at some of the import events to keep our youth interested in the beauty of our cars. I think this is a point that some will overlook. My interest in certain cars was driven by what I saw winning at the races. Cool part about what we do is that there is more than one good way to build a hot rod. Your last bit of Americana is on forums like this!
Everyone should love the fact that my teenaged daughter loves her Plymouth Scamp and her Dad has one right behind it!

Next time I head to Bentonville we should both head 90 miles and meet up in the middle Bill! Wal-Mart is a customer of ours.

Dave,

The problem as I see it, with the slant six cylinder head, lies not with the lack of a crossflow port orientation, but with the valve size limitations imposed on it by the small bore size.

A 225 slant six has the same displacement per cylinder as a 302 Z-28 small block Chevy, which comes atock with 2.02" X 1.6" valves.

The Chevy has 5.21 square inches of valve area to service the same displacement that the /6 has to try to feed with 4.16 square inches when using the 1.75" X 1.5" oversized valves most builders use for hi-po /6 heads.

That's a difference of 25-percent!!!

With a handicap like that, it's no wonder that it's a difficult battle to get meaningful hp/cu,in, numbers out of normally-aspirated slant six motors.

In all honesty, I don't think that a crossflow port orientation is going to help much, given the problem with valve sizes.

The fact is, the head was designed for the 170 and was never changed. There was no room for bigger bores, so when they needed a displacement increase, they just stroked it (an INCH!!!) and that gave is a 25-percent larger motor, but with the same-size ports and valves.

On the street, yes a 170 will rev to the moon, and in pounds-per-cubic inch classes, the 170 is a KILLER, but it's just too small to make sufficient power to haul a 3,000-pound car around with the kind of musclecar performance most folks are looking for in a street bruiser.

GuzziMark got great performance out of his normally-aspirated 225 by putting his Generation I Valiant on a severe diet and runs some impressive numbers with that car, but not everybody can get their curb weight down as low as he did (2350?)

He also has run the engine on N20 with great success. He holds several records with that little rocket!

Another way to go fast with the 225 is to employ forced induction (super-or turbo-charging) which can be fun, also.

Not really cheap OR easy, adding a turbo to a slant 6 seeems to make an end-run around the built-in breathing problems these engines seem to have.

You pays your money and you takes your choice!!! :cheers:
 
i went and looked at the car last night and it going to be a sweet project! its going to look great when me and dave get done with it. i cant wait to get started!!!
 
i went and looked at the car last night and it going to be a sweet project! its going to look great when me and dave get done with it. i cant wait to get started!!!

If you guys had EVER seen the quality of Tim's work upclose you would #1 buy his Turbo Dart and #2 Beg him to help you build a sweet car!

Tim and I worked together on 4 cars at a previous job and his work was impeccable, the cars exceeded the performance we promised. When I win the lotto or make it some other way I'm giving him a Mil to open up his own place!
 
If you guys had EVER seen the quality of Tim's work upclose you would #1 buy his Turbo Dart and #2 Beg him to help you build a sweet car!

Tim and I worked together on 4 cars at a previous job and his work was impeccable, the cars exceeded the performance we promised. When I win the lotto or make it some other way I'm giving him a Mil to open up his own place!

thanks dave!!! i cant wait to get started on what i call ''mo-rice''!! should be fun!
 
thanks dave!!! i cant wait to get started on what i call ''mo-rice''!! should be fun!

It's official title is "Junk Yard Six" as it's all used parts so far! I'm sure we will have more names as we run into the sledgehammer wielding punch-list! ;)
 
Ugh, and you are from my home town (Detroit) and you are doing this atrocity... <shakes head>

I wondered how long it would take for the killjoys to get here :finga:

I can't wait to see this thing together. It oughtta be fun.

And For the record, it is my opinion that there is no auto maker who does everything the best. And if you want a vehicle to be the best it can ever be, you cannot restrict yourself to a single brand.

Besides, think of any holley carburetor, set of headers, aftermarket intake, heads, comp/crane/etc. cam, aftermarket pistons, rods, crank, hell even the aftermarket studs people put their motors together with. None of them are any more "mopar" than the engine he's putting in this scamp. They were just designed to fit better. Nowadays you can put together a mopar small block, big block, or hemi, hell a complete matching drivetrain, that doesn't have a single mopar piece in it.

I'm not going to laugh at anyone unless it doesn't work. And when it does work, I'll be more than happy to laugh with them.
 
designed to fit better is debateable, have you ever installed hedman headers? lol
 
I wondered how long it would take for the killjoys to get here :finga:

I can't wait to see this thing together. It oughtta be fun.

And For the record, it is my opinion that there is no auto maker who does everything the best. And if you want a vehicle to be the best it can ever be, you cannot restrict yourself to a single brand.

Besides, think of any holley carburetor, set of headers, aftermarket intake, heads, comp/crane/etc. cam, aftermarket pistons, rods, crank, hell even the aftermarket studs people put their motors together with. None of them are any more "mopar" than the engine he's putting in this scamp. They were just designed to fit better. Nowadays you can put together a mopar small block, big block, or hemi, hell a complete matching drivetrain, that doesn't have a single mopar piece in it.

I'm not going to laugh at anyone unless it doesn't work. And when it does work, I'll be more than happy to laugh with them.


When you think about it, the whole idea, or rationale, behind "brand loyalty" is the idea that that one manufacturer's products are somehow BETTER than any other's.

I run a Plymouth slant six with a turbo on it because I am convinced that the other inline sixes that have been built by Ford (240 and 300c.i.d.) and Chevy (250/292c.i.d.) are in some important ways, inferior to the slant six, so I choose to go with the MOPAR engine.

That is strictly Because I perceive it was being better than the other choices.

If I were building a normally-aspirated inline six, my engine choice would be different, because the Ford and Chevy sixes have larger ORIGINAL bore spacing and bores, giving them more room inside the combustion chamber for larger-diameter valves (and ports.)

But, for MY purposes (hopefully, outstanding performance from a forced induction inline six,) the slant six would seem to be the engine of choice because of its unusually strong infrastructure (due to its originally being an aluminum engine and the fact that not much was changed when they went to cast iron.) In short, I think that it is strong enough to withstand high levels of boost more successfully than the Ford or Chevy engines. Never mind that it starts out with a 70, or so, cubic inch deficit; boost can be added to make up for that IF the basic engine design can hold up under the stress, and I'm hoping it can.

That is MY rationale for a Mopar engine being my "engine of choice."

My personal prefences as regards OHV V8s is not really mirrorred in my other car's motor, which is a 360 Magnum.

I find the small block Mopar engine to be a mixed bag of features that on the one hand, has some features that make it superior to the original small block Chevy, but others that would make it a second choice in that contest.

I put one in my '72 Valiant because It fit the chassis, and would give me all the performance I wanted/needed for the street (low 11s at about 118 mph with a Vortech blower.)

Engine swapping is a can of worms that I'd rather not open. Been there/done that (how about a small block Chevy in a HenryJ?)

If my street driver were a late model Crapmaro (fat chance!) I would no doubt, have an LS engine in it, because those engines have a LOT going for them.... but, the (G.M.) cars they fit into are not my cup o'tea.

There was a "car guy" who was a higher-eschelon management type (CEO, or something) who was quoted as having said, "If I had my CHOICE of cars, it would be a vehicle that was engineered by MOPAR, built by Ford, and sold by G.M."

I think he was a smart man...:supz:
 
I wondered how long it would take for the killjoys to get here :finga:

I can't wait to see this thing together. It oughtta be fun.

And For the record, it is my opinion that there is no auto maker who does everything the best. And if you want a vehicle to be the best it can ever be, you cannot restrict yourself to a single brand.

I'm not going to laugh at anyone unless it doesn't work. And when it does work, I'll be more than happy to laugh with them.

Nice! Comments appreciated. FWIW, I came to the shop to find a "needs a hemi" sign on the windshield today. The neighbor knows what's what and I'm pretty sure his doo wop penmanship is at hand here!

hemi.JPG


Tim and I had a FedEx parts delivery setback and the Supra mid/rear sump oil pan didn't arrive until late Saturday night. We are going to try the Supra mid/rear before grabbing an Aussie Toyota Crown for $700 or fabbing a Stef's custom for $900.

Keep in mind that the effort I'm doing now is so that pretty much ANY A Body enthusiast can duplicate this effort without snowflake, unobtainum parts.
 
"Needs a hemi".......... that person obviously does not understand the power potential of a forced inducted engine. replacement for displacement! i would put my non "hemi" a-body against an a-body with a "hemi" any day! and you better believe i have!!!
 
Not a lot done today/this weekend as it's sweetest day and all. Tim's spending time with his wife and I'm doing likewise! I did get mounts in from Speedway, 73' Centerlink, and the Fast Ratio Idler and Pitman Arm from Dick at Firmfeel.

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