Uncle Tony says Gen III hemi has inherent lifter lubrication problems. Agree?

New Hemi Engine Swaps

  1. fishy68

    fishy68 Tyr Fryr's Inc. FABO Gold Member

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    That's basically it
     
  2. fishy68

    fishy68 Tyr Fryr's Inc. FABO Gold Member

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    Excessive heat is one cause. Junk metal is another
     
  3. dartfreak75

    dartfreak75 Restore it, Dont part it! FABO Gold Member

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    Excessive heat from lack of oil? Lol
    Sorry I had too.
     
  4. RustyRatRod

    RustyRatRod Bla de blizhibliz de blatde blizi bla bla FABO Gold Member

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    From China, I just bet.
     
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    • dartfreak75

      dartfreak75 Restore it, Dont part it! FABO Gold Member

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      I just have to wonder even with the "junk" metal if the oil problem is true and it was fixed if it would be and issue still. Because with proper lubrication and roller lifters there cant be that much friction on the cam even if it is made from junk China metal! Just a thought.
       
    • fishy68

      fishy68 Tyr Fryr's Inc. FABO Gold Member

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      I have zero experience with the G3 hemi so all I have to go on is what I've read here about the problem they have but good lubrication is key to making even junk live long
       
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      • fishy68

        fishy68 Tyr Fryr's Inc. FABO Gold Member

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        As cheap as they are they'd have to be
         
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        • replicaracer43

          replicaracer43 Grumpy Old Man

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          $80 right from the Chrysler parts dept
           
        • dartfreak75

          dartfreak75 Restore it, Dont part it! FABO Gold Member

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          I threw a 80 dollar summit cam in a 318 one time back then I knew nothing about building a engine. And put that engine in my 72 barracuda drove it for years and sold it to a guy that drove it. Never had any problems out of it. It was weak as pond water tho! I think that was more related to me not knowing what I was doing and the timing and carb tune was trash! Lol
           
        • replicaracer43

          replicaracer43 Grumpy Old Man

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          You have a roller wheel, rolling along the lobe, the majority of the load is actually on the needle rollers in the lifter, all the wheel has to do is roll up and down the lobe. That is, until peices of that lobe, begin to flake off in chunks, as seen in the previous photo. No amount of oil on the surface is gonna prevent a whole chunk of metal from separating UNDER the wear surface. (Base casting of metal) Its NOT a heat issue, there is less friction, therefore heat, with a roller versus a flat tappet, otherwise flat tappet cams would just RIP layers of metal off in the same fashion. Put a quality cam in it, the engine will run 300k miles. With the same oiling "flaws" think about it
           
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          • replicaracer43

            replicaracer43 Grumpy Old Man

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            That 80 dollar summit cam was probably ground on a suitable core, not a potmetal mess from Chinese metal slush
             
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            • dartfreak75

              dartfreak75 Restore it, Dont part it! FABO Gold Member

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              That is a good point! In the pics above it doesn't even look like the parts that are chipped away are within the roller contact area! For the most part! So that kinda eliminates "wear"
               
            • Nat

              Nat Well-Known Member

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              I AGREE I had a 1970 318 that went 350,000 miles ate a few plastic timming gears though. I also had a ram 440 1977 that went over 500,000 mile with no problems , of course I used quality oil and filters and changed at regulsar intervals
               
            • Krooser

              Krooser Reform School Graduate

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              Its JOHNSON lifter that has the improved lifter. Their web page explains it.
               
            • Krooser

              Krooser Reform School Graduate

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              Cams are not layered....solid steel. The bad lifter grinds away the lobe.
               
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              • RustyRatRod

                RustyRatRod Bla de blizhibliz de blatde blizi bla bla FABO Gold Member

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                Ok, then explain what cam delamination is.
                 
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                • replicaracer43

                  replicaracer43 Grumpy Old Man

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                  Didn't you allready see the picture of the cam lobe missing peices of metal with a perfectly intact roller allready posted in the thread? I have had a boatload of 5.7s in my shop for cam replacement, there is ALLWAYS bad lobes with a otherwise perfect roller still rolling on it. The lifters fail AFTER the cam
                   
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                  • 408 swinger

                    408 swinger FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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                    I'll dig the lifter set out and post pics of that tomorrow. I don't have an ALL knowing explanation for the "hemi lifter issue", but after seeing that camshaft with my own eyes.......
                    Apparently, a picture AIN'T worth a thousand words.
                     
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                    • 408 swinger

                      408 swinger FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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                      43 has probably seen a thousand times more than me!!
                       
                    • 408 swinger

                      408 swinger FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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                      Krooser, I'm disagreeing with your last sentence.
                       
                    • replicaracer43

                      replicaracer43 Grumpy Old Man

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                      Well now, a boatload, is still less than a thousand!
                       
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                      • Hellcat Cuda

                        Hellcat Cuda Well-Known Member

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                        I've seen quite a few and numerous I caught it while the lifter roller bearings were going bad but cam was still ok.
                         
                      • Hemirunner

                        Hemirunner Well-Known Member

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                        Interesting thread;

                        @Hellcat Cuda, have you had any noise from your 6.2? Mine is very noisy at 2500rpm specifically and sounds different from others that I’ve heard.

                        @MOPAROFFICIAL One thing I am curious about are the aforementioned tricks with the beer bottle... I’ve never even heard of such things! Lol
                         
                      • Cuda416

                        Cuda416 Well-Known Member

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                        I think people might be getting wrapped around the axle because of incorrect terminology being used.

                        Assuming the cams are crap, not gonna argue it, they are NOT de-laminating... To "de-laminate, that would have had to first be made in layers. Clearly that's not the case. Those were chunks that were coming out, not laminations.

                        My point has nothing to do with if and how they are failing, just the term used to describe the failure.

                        Please continue... but for the love of all that is holy, someone post some actual data or analysis that doesn't involve anecdotal evidence, even if you've seen it 1000 times, that doesn't actually "prove" anything other than it's failed 1000 times.

                        I'm also not saying the metal isn't crap. 43 could very well be absolutely correct, but I'm interested in the "WHY', rather than the what at this point. My guess is mother MoPar knows, but screwed up so bad they aren't talking about it. Would be a class action lawsuit. Seems there have been enough problems with the G3 HEMI to not discount the possibility of a design issue out of the box. Replacing cams is a lot cheaper than retooling and redesigning a block though. That and it would be major egg on Ma MoPars face after all of the "That thing got a HEMI in it" commercials...

                        I'm sure someone will make some stupid comment about my post, don't care.. I'd really like to see less bashing if people and more actual analysis than butt hurt.
                         
                        Last edited: Jun 4, 2020
                      • replicaracer43

                        replicaracer43 Grumpy Old Man

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                        I forgot to mention earlier, I have been seeing it on the 5.3 chevy LS motors also, and they dont have the exact oiling design as the hemi. When I say "delamination" I'm referring to peices of metal separating off the cam lobes, sometimes in little chunks, pits, slivers, ect. And lobes that had not yet failed, the lifter wheel was intact, wheel rolling smoothly on the bearing still, but peices of lobe all ready flaking off....those flakes are what lock up the lifter wheel, not the other way around. It appears to ME, that it's a poor quality casting of the cam core. The SRT engines dont have the problem, they have a different camshaft, but the oiling system is the same as non-SRT engines. Therefore, the oiling theory just doesn't hold water.
                         
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