Uncle Tony says Gen III hemi has inherent lifter lubrication problems. Agree?

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cuda416 said over reving but I don't think the computer would let that happen. There was too much in his post to quote him. I have an 05 Ram with 88,000 miles, but do mostly highway miles and no real problems yet. A 2010 SRT with 11,000 miles and all hi way also.
 
I already said I wasn't going to talk about the cam issue anymore, but if any of you guys who worship Tony's skills want a nice overview of his talent, go check out his recent collaboration with Nick's garage on the budget 318 build. I will let the results speak for themselves. I'm so old, I dont know how to post a link, but it's on YouTube
 
That's it in a nutshell replicaracer43. Trying to pawn off information on a topic that is out of your realm and you try to become the expert through the internet. I am sure this Tony guy has done good for others and my case was less than impressive.
replicaracer43 said:
I already said I wasn't going to talk about the cam issue anymore, but if any of you guys who worship Tony's skills want a nice overview of his talent, go check out his recent collaboration with Nick's garage on the budget 318 build. I will let the results speak for themselves. I'm so old, I dont know how to post a link, but it's on YouTube
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I think it was Tonysrt that asked about Magnums having the same problem. Already been covered. No, they oil pretty much in the same fashion as the LA. The exception is, the rockers and valve tips get oil from the lifters. Solid pressure fed oil. The G3 is exactly backwards from that. The rockers and valve tips are pressure fed through the block into the heads like the LA. The oil is then supposed to go down through the pushrods to the lifters. There are four "quadrants" if you will. From each corner of the block to oil lifters as well. I have seen lifter failure in the 08 and earlier engines. EXTREME lack of maintenance. The 09 present(Eagle) engines not so much. I don't have an answer. Pissing matches solve nothing. Let's be glad we have a forum like this to talk about "real" problems.
 
Krooser said:
Maybe '09....
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Actually, '09 was the start of the newer "Eagle" 5.7 and it's more the Eagle 5.7 that is destroying cam/lifters. At the PD I retired from, I last bought new Chargers in '18 and the new guy has bought some '19s, with '20s on order. I keep in touch and will be finding out what the newer cars are experiencing. I think it was through at least '14 year models that were giving me fits, because they had enough mileage on them for the problem to occur.
 
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Hellcat Cuda said:
Actually, '09 was the start of the newer "Eagle" 5.7 and it's more the Eagle 5.7 that is destroying cam/lifters. At the PD I retired from, I last bought new Chargers in '18 and the new guy has bought some '19s and '20s on order. I keep in touch and will be finding out what the newer cars are experiencing. I think it was through at least '14 year models that they were giving me fits, because they had enough mileage on them for the problem to occur.
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You are more of an expert than I that's for sure.

I do know that the new design from Johnson oils the roller bearings better than the OE design and they claim tighter manufacturing tolerances take the tick outta the valvetrain.

I have 5 Gen3 Hemis in stock right now. 4 are early motors. The PO's of two non mds engines proudly stated they used 15w40 oils to avoid lifter issues. Both had cams destroyed...
 
replicaracer43 said:
I already said I wasn't going to talk about the cam issue anymore, but if any of you guys who worship Tony's skills want a nice overview of his talent, go check out his recent collaboration with Nick's garage on the budget 318 build. I will let the results speak for themselves. I'm so old, I dont know how to post a link, but it's on YouTube
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I watched some of that build I didnt see it all it was a series. What happened in it ?
 
A56 said:
My 02 Ram which isn't a hemi (it's a 360 or 5.9 as they like to refer to them as) did that since new. Now has 182,*** miles on it. I asked the same question and was told it was a check valve in the emissions system. ?? Still does it.
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Evap purge solenoid. Some are quite loud.
 
As far as high revving goes, some ecms record data at point of setting a fault. Rpms, engine temp and runtime are some examples. So if it was related to driving habits, they would be able to find some evidence pointing to long idle time and high rpms.
The photo of the cam posted up looks almost like galling,which again points to quality of camshaft.
 
tonysrt said:
cuda416 said over reving but I don't think the computer would let that happen. There was too much in his post to quote him. I have an 05 Ram with 88,000 miles, but do mostly highway miles and no real problems yet. A 2010 SRT with 11,000 miles and all hi way also.
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That's a fair statement if you accept the default rev limiter is up to the task of compensating for inadequate valve springs etc. I have a 2010 1500 with 180k and no problems yet, other than two busted exhaust manifold bolts. I know at least one person who got a motor replaced via warranty after he reprogrammed it and raced it. Blew it up and flashed it back. I'm sure the dealer knew but he raised enough of a stink when they went back on what the manager had promised, they gave in. It happens. I'm sure not enough to say it's the cause of the problem but people lie and do stupid things.

Again, I don't know what the problem is but I'm just tossing out possible causes. Never claimed to be an expert but I do have quite a bit of experience "debugging systems" and have learned to never discount the "odd" because don't agree with it at first. Occams Razor can be a *****. This could all be simple as has been said about poor materials and de-lamination. I can certainly accept that, but find it hard to believe the factory wouldn't be able to figure that out and call the manufacturer to say "Hey, put more of XYZ in this proportion in the mix"...

The analysis showing the movement of the metal is interesting to me. We all know even the hardest metal has a plasticity to it. This would certainly lead to de-lamination, after taking a pounding, but from a roller? Pound on a bar of steel and it will eventually do the same thing if it's done cold. That's the part that strikes me as odd. Barring something causing the valves to float and bounce the roller, if it's properly lubricated, the roller will NEVER contact the lobe. That's what oil does after all.

Once again, I'll state I am no engine or metallurgy expert, and I am very interested in the final determination, even if it's just bad metal. But wholly cow there's a lot of **** slinging about how "stupid" other people are with nothing more than "because I said" mentality....

This next part is just a general observation....
I also find it telling how many people seem threatened by the smoking man who has a channel. It's hilarious to me how many people gave him crap for not doing things "right" when building that 318. From the get go, it was stated that it was to be an extremely low dollar build to see what they could get out of it. No, they couldn't stay off of their high horses though and put toss their two cents into the well hoping to bring him down a notch.... sad really....
 
There is some inherent lifter noise but I don’t believe there are any Reliabilty issues. Between me and my family, we have had many of them. A couple were over 10 yrs old and well over 100k without any issues. The current hemi has proven reliable as millions have been made and used. It has been one of the very few positive things to come out of the Daimler era
 
No one is threatened by the "smoking man" with a channel, and no one is trying to bring him down a notch. That video above just gives some perspective into his skill level and mindset. Its HIS work, HIS words, and HIS results that speak for themselves. Hes probably a great guy, who helps everyone, but from what I see in that video alone you would have to be seriously ignorant to consider him any kind of authority, especially on anything like a 5.7
 
replicaracer43 said:
No one is threatened by the "smoking man" with a channel, and no one is trying to bring him down a notch. That video above just gives some perspective into his skill level and mindset. Its HIS work, HIS words, and HIS results that speak for themselves. Hes probably a great guy, who helps everyone, but from what I see in that video alone you would have to be seriously ignorant to consider him any kind of authority, especially on anything like a 5.7
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I'm not talking about here specifically. Go look at the comments on the video itself if you want to see. it's ridiculous. Also, no one, including HE, claims he's an export on all things 5.7 hemi's...
 
Cuda416 said:
I'm not talking about here specifically. Go look at the comments on the video itself if you want to see. it's ridiculous. Also, no one, including HE, claims he's an export on all things 5.7 hemi's...
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I didnt read any of the comments on the video, but evidently hes no expert on reassembling a budget 318 either. Just sayin.
 
replicaracer43 said:
I didnt read any of the comments on the video, but evidently hes no expert on reassembling a budget 318 either. Just sayin.
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So you didn't read any comments, but claim no one was bashing him... Ok, whatever, you clearly don't like him and it doesn't really to anyone, especially me.

However, i'm a guy who LOVES to learn new stuff. Tell me what he did wrong and what you would have done different within the parameters of the "experiment" this was... I am completely serious. it's "easy" to spend a ton of money and build a monster, so I'd love to know what an experienced engine builder would do on a tight budget. Understand, I'm not trying to put you on the spot. I'm sure there are loads of things you'd do, and I'd love to hear them.
 
CichliDart said:
$725. for a set, not counting tax and shipping. Do you know of a cheaper price or alternate lifter?
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I've heard that there are two different Johnson lifter companies. Johnson vs. Johnson Hylift? Which is the one to use?
 
Ok, so no one's asked, so I will. What is cam "delamination" exactly? From one of the pictures, it appears to be the peeling back of the layers of steel the cam is made of.
 
Ok so I finally got around to watching that video. And I have a few things to say about it. My take from it may be a little different than yalls but here is my takeaway from it.
1) always use rtv or some sealant when installing new freeze plugs
2) always have the block and heads thoroughly cleaned anytime your putting an engine together even if it is a budget build and you can afford to do machine work to it! I'm so glad now that I aborted my "budget 318" build when I did because that was exactly what I had planned on doing (what they did)
3) 318s are remarkably tough!!!! That thing was through together in one day didnt have any oil pressure was dirty and nasty the cam was never properly broken in leaking fluid, too short push rods, god only knows what the clearance was in the bearings. And it still revved to 5 grand and never blew up and made 245 hp without being timed probably! To me that's pretty impressive!
I do have a couple questions I hope they will answer eventually! At the end he said that Tony figured out the oil pressure problem was due to a lifter issue. What could happen in the lifters for it to cause the op to drop like that? Did they collapse? I know that it may seem disastrous but imo builds like that is how you learn! I'm glad they did it and I'm glad I watched it! I learned alot from it. So when I finally do get around to doing my budget 318 I know exactly what not to do and what to watch for!
 
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