Uneven LCAs help

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Is it possible that the REAR axle is somehow affecting this? Don't discount ANY detail. Tire size and pressure, the floor is perfectly level.

IS IT POSSIBLE that something (a rear leaf) has changed / broken in the rear?

Because "we can't see" what you see, try to "play" with the clocking. Remove the adjustment bolts and nut plates (I don't remember the tech word, LOL) and pry on the levers to see if you can get "one more clock" on one side.

ANY chance you "forgot" and have mismatched bars? Easy to do with the "junk" I have around here LOL
 
Thanks again for the help. Unfortunately I don't have enough parts yet to have mixed up tbars LOL. I think you guys might be right about weak bars and rear end.
I just got this car last year, the rear springs were so bad they were a straight line. I put XHD springs last fall, then ran it in the garage, but now that you mention it. The front did set crooked after that. I wonder if the tbars are that bad with new springs pushing forward now.
 
Could be a prior owner had a broken or sagged T-bar and installed whatever they found at the junkyard. If the factory paint marks are still on the T-bars you can tell what you have, or if you carefully measure diameters with a vernier (but not where the paint sags are). Kind of hard to read the numbers in the car. I wonder if circle track racers every purposely install mis-matched T-bars.
 
Mine did that with NEW MP T-bars and new polyurethane bushings. I bought new T-bars, no change. I'd run it with an open manifold blowing on it and I thought maybe the heat had de-tempered the metal. Nope. New bars changed nothing.

Personally, it seems like you'd have to work to clock T-bars wrong. Rick did say that the points on the bars can wear down as they break in, and that can affect it (mine didn't do it immediately, only after 1k miles), and you should always check K-frame pivots and T-bar anchors in the crossmember.

I emailed Rick Ehrenberg about it when I read the article title "Prime Steer", in the Dec. '11 issue. He said some just do that. "Level it out and drive the piss out of it" , more or less.

My question:
Hi Rick,I was leafing through the December '11 issue. I noticed that on page 64, in your
article "Prime Steer", that whatever project car you had on the rack (you
were illustrating the ground clearance) has one torsion bar adjusting bolt
in way more than the other (One's just barely visible, the other is way out)
Was this picture taken in the middle of adjustments, or is the car driven
that way? I ask because my car has begun sagging on the left front and my
new (500 miles) .890 bars are set with the adjusters out level. I thought it
would change the rate to adjust one more than the other?

His reply, word for word:
The bars in that car are 1990's dated MP bars. The amount of pre-twist in
the bars was, apparently, not as carefully controlled as it was during
production's (OEM, 1960s-'70s) heyday.

It isn't, however, really a problem. As long as you get the ride height in
specs, and equal side-to-side (with weight simulating a driver in the seat),
you're good to go. Rate does NOT change.

Sagging is generally the result of the "points" on the bar's hex getting
somewhat "mushed down". This phenomena slows quickly, reaching an
equilibrium point. There are also many other places where side to side
variations can occur...that's why they are adjustable!

FYI: Cars with OEM HD suspension had shorter adjusting bolts!

Rick
 
The bars are the correct numbers, (892 and 893) for 318 with factory AC. But have been out at least one other time because of tool marks on them.
I suppose if the rear springs were that bad, it is likely the fronts would be worn also. From searching the site it looks like 1" bars would be OK and the price isn't too bad at $200. I think I will get them and then see how it looks.
 
Check the ends that are welded to the trans cross member. I have the exact same problem on Pam's Jamaican Blue Baby and I found that the previous owner had repaired a rusty cross member with a safe-T-cap kit. In doing so he unknowingly clocked the right side torsion bar anchor 1/6th of a turn. I didn't notice till I was cleaning up the bottom of the car. It has always been that way and even though we have to turn one adjuster in further than the other there was no issues with the ride or having to much tension on one side.

I don't think it matters how much you turn them as long as the car sits level. I also don't think that having one screw in more than the other means that one tb is cranked up more than the other. I am going to try to remove the bar and loosen the LCA's and do it again just to see if I get a better setting.

I don't know everything there is to know about this set up so if there is something I'm missing please......more info.
 
Freezerman said:
If I turn both adjusters in the same amount the drivers side is always a lot lower(obvious tilt). For example if both sides adjusters have 2" of travel I have to turn the the drivers side in at least an inch to even out. If I turn the pass side in more it starts to look like no engine in the car.
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I would check out the driver's side rear spring and the passenger side T-bar anchor point very carefully before new T-bars in front. And if you could borrow some wheel scales, that would be very useful to know the weights on the corners.
 
momoparman said:
Check the ends that are welded to the trans cross member. I have the exact same problem on Pam's Jamaican Blue Baby and I found that the previous owner had repaired a rusty cross member with a safe-T-cap kit. In doing so he unknowingly clocked the right side torsion bar anchor 1/6th of a turn. I didn't notice till I was cleaning up the bottom of the car. It has always been that way and even though we have to turn one adjuster in further than the other there was no issues with the ride or having to much tension on one side.

I don't think it matters how much you turn them as long as the car sits level. I also don't think that having one screw in more than the other means that one tb is cranked up more than the other. I am going to try to remove the bar and loosen the LCA's and do it again just to see if I get a better setting.

I don't know everything there is to know about this set up so if there is something I'm missing please......more info.
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The anchor point suggestion is a good one.

As far at the adjustments being unequal, if ther T-bar's are equal in torsional strength, then it is indeed no issue for handling. But the basic design is such that there should not be much difference in the adjustments. So if they are much different, then something has changed/is wrong.
 
I checked the mounts, couldn't see anything wrong. The bars did slide in pretty smoothly.
I think a previous owner knocked them out with maybe vise grips and drove them back in with a hammer from the looks of them.
With that and possibly they are weak, I can bottom them on the bump stops pretty easily with jouncing the car, I am going to get new bars and then see how it sits.

How are the JustSuspension 1" bars? Fit well? Too stiff?
 
I put 73-76 front suspension in my 68 complete w/ K member, etc. As usual I started collecting parts from various sources then swapped over when I had everything required. I noticed that the head of one T-bar adjusting bolt stuck out from the bottom of the LCA more than the other side. Turns out that one of the adjusting bolts is exactly 1/2" longer than the other. (IIRC, 3" vs. 3-1/2") The car sits level, everything is fine in that regard but it kinda bugs me. I look for a short coarse bolt at swap meets so I can even them out.

Something easily checked on your car.

One thing I found out is that the earlier LCA's seem to use fine thread bolts and my "new" 73-76 use a coarse thread. (probably 1/2"-20 vs. 1/2"-13 because the hex is 3/4" across the flats)
 
I forgot to mention that I have the same issue with two different sets of torsion bars so It's not a weak bar on my problem.....it's a clocking issue.

I would think it would take a lot to weaken one of these bars....they are built with quality steel and really don't take as much load as they are designed to handle.

that being said I also know anything can happen.

Good luck and let see what happens.

Mop
 
momoparman said:
I forgot to mention that I have the same issue with two different sets of torsion bars so It's not a weak bar on my problem.....it's a clocking issue.

I would think it would take a lot to weaken one of these bars....they are built with quality steel and really don't take as much load as they are designed to handle.

that being said I also know anything can happen.

Good luck and let see what happens.

Mop
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Dude, did you read post 30 up there?
 
How about getting the car on a level surface, jacking up the rear and putting jack stands under the rear body? Wouldn't that eliminate the rear spring questions?
 
I did that( jack the rear) checked the level of rear axle. Thats one of the things that make me think I have weak tbars. The passenger side front drops down at least 1 1/2" lower than driver side with the rear in the air.
 
Freezerman said:
With the height roughly equal the drivers control arm is at least 1/2" lower.
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Going back over the original symptoms, I am not understanding this statement. Does this mean with the ride height on the driver's and passenger side the same, that the driver's LCA is at a different angle than the passenger side? Or that the driver's side LCA pivot point is lower than the passenger side? Or....????
 
Sorry for confusion. When setting ride height I had to go off fenders because if I set the height by factory spec the drivers side is visibley lower. To make car level I had to turn in driver side adjuster twice as far as passenger side. Then when measuring from the floor to same spot on respective LCA the driver side is at least 1/2" closer to the floor.
The garage floor is level to within 1/8" in that area. I hope that is clearer?
 
Freezerman said:
Sorry for confusion. When setting ride height I had to go off fenders because if I set the height by factory spec the drivers side is visibley lower. To make car level I had to turn in driver side adjuster twice as far as passenger side. Then when measuring from the floor to same spot on respective LCA the driver side is at least 1/2" closer to the floor.
The garage floor is level to within 1/8" in that area. I hope that is clearer?
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Where are you measuring from on the LCAs? I still have to wonder if you have a cracked/broken weld on the pivot sleeve based off what you said above.
 
Ok after rechecking the level at the fenders and lots of rolling back and forth to make sure it settled I took a couple pictures. Its actually off by more like 3/8" now, but note the difference in adjuster screws. The drivers side is out of sight.
Passenger side first.
 

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Not to bust chops, but the correct places to make your measurements are from the 'blade' in the middle of the LCA and then the bottom of the lower BJ. There should be 1" to 1 1/2" difference, meaning the bottom of the LBJ should be 1 to 1 1/2 inches lower than the 'blade' . The Blade is that round part in the middle of the LCA that the T-Bar goes into. You measure between the two plates that sandwich the blade. Ignore any other measurements, like if one fender or rocker is higher than the opposite side. After you crank on the t bar bolt, bounce the car a few times and let it settle, then measure.
 
Yeah, I did try using the factory measurement and thats when I found the arms uneven. The closer I tried to get the 1 1/2" the more visable the difference was. When looking under the car you could see the drivers side lower.
That is what I am trying to show in the pictures. In order for the car to sit even eyeballing level the drivers side adjuster is cranked way in and the arms aren't equal distant to the floor. Unless I am wrong I would think the arms should be the same to the floor?
However driving the car around doesn't change the levels.
 
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