Valve train noise

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I took my driver's side rocker gear off to have a close look at the shaft condition and found slight galling on a couple of rockers. I didn't like what I saw! Sorry I didn't take any pics. This was the supposedly noisier side but I doubt it was the problem. Anyway I took the passenger side off aswell thinking that it had started too but was all clean. I took all the gear down to my local machine shop and he advised it wasn't all that bad. He suggested to linish the shafts and hone my rockers to smooth out the galled suface. I took them yesterdsy and picked them up today. I was very surprised! The shafts are mirror finish and I couldn't tell between the one that had damage and the other. As far as the two galled rockers they were honed and whilst honing they were slightly out of round. He honed all the rockers as they had some degree of out of round. Now they are perfectly round and slide on the shaft like silk. I will start from scratch now and reassemble the rocker gear with the proper side play and preload. I hope this fixes the problem.
Regards
Billy D...
P.S. I think side play plays a big role which I never looked into when assembling the rocker gear in the past...
 
while its apart see if you can wobble any of the lifters in their bores. A couple bad holes will make more of them noisey on that side due to pressure loss. Just something you could then rule out while its apart.
 
Oldmanmopar said:
while its apart see if you can wobble any of the lifters in their bores. A couple bad holes will make more of them noisey on that side due to pressure loss. Just something you could then rule out while its apart.
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Although the engine is still all in tact, I managed to try and wobble the lifters through the inspection holes that the head has. I was looking through the holes and using each pushrod to prod the lifter to see if they move side to side. To the best of my ability they did not wobble. It was difficult to do while holding a torch at the same time using the push rod to check for movement.
Anyway I reassembled everything and adjusted side play to 0.012" on all rockers. I used 3/4 turn for the preload on all rockers. All turned out very good. The engine sounds slightly quiter on the side of my (so called) problem. I reckon taking up the side play may have helped. But the valve noise just seems a little louder on that side. Very little I might add. It just sounds like its running a mechanical setup. Doesn't sound like a distinct single lifter ticking/tapping. If you stand back in front of the engine you don't notice it. Only when you lean over each fender in turn and compare one bank with the other. I could not find anything wrong except the excessive side play. Everything looked o.k. The engine feels strong and runs silk smooth like always. Before I put this to bed my last question will be if 3/4 turn preload is too much and if not would it be advisable to apply a little more preload and how much more.
End of story.
Regards
Billy D...
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Preload is measure by the position of the lifter piston position. While the lifter is at the bottom of the lobe the piston should be at half its travel down maximum when empty. For example If the travel is 1/4 the preload should be 1/8 maximum. Those numbers may not be accurate they are just an example of where to set the preload. no matter the full travel divide it by 2. Less is OK but never go more or the piston may close off the feed hole and the lifters may never fill with oil if they collapse a bit.
 
Bewy said:
Yup, met Bill & saw his rockers. They were pretty heavy. He was living at Dural I think. I think he has passed on. Do you know Keith Clews?
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He was at Dural, I went there once to look at some 727 deep pans that he had made. I don't think I ever bought anything from him through. From memory a lot of it was a bit bulky.
 
Billbo said:
"found slight galling on a couple of rockers"
"As far as the two galled rockers they were honed and whilst honing they were slightly out of round. He honed all the rockers as they had some degree of out of round."
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The rocker galling is something I'd be a little concerned about, I take it these are not bushed rockers.
How loose are the rockers on the shafts now? Honing them back to round makes the hole larger.
 
Bakerlite said:
The rocker galling is something I'd be a little concerned about, I take it these are not bushed rockers.
How loose are the rockers on the shafts now? Honing them back to round makes the hole larger.
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The rockers are not bushed that is correct. After honing there is very minimal play on the shaft. I measured about 0.002 to 0.003 thou clearance no less. I a way its a good thing oil flow. It made no difference before and after anyway. But I'm glad I pulled it apart and cleaned the surfaces. They slide like they are on ball bearings.

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Billbo said:
The rockers are not bushed that is correct. After honing there is very minimal play on the shaft. I measured about 0.002 to 0.003 thou clearance no less. I a way its a good thing oil flow. It made no difference before and after anyway. But I'm glad I pulled it apart and cleaned the surfaces. They slide like they are on ball bearings.

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Those are some oldies.
Havent seen those in years, last time was in a book by Bob Mullen.
I just pre load them till they're each quiet with adjustable rockers...usually 30 thousands does it. I assume the shaft came with the Rockers so the oiling holes are lined up right.. but idk it looks like the holes are close and I want them pointing toward the spring and at the bottom.
The noise...Could just be the little rollers are loose, in addition to the rocker bores & sideplay....you're maybe hearing a lot of clearances close up every time the rocker opens the valve is all.
 
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The oil holes are equal distant from the mounting hole but the oiling hole with the banana groove is on the valve spring side. Saying that I added 1/4 turn so I have 1 turn preload to see what happens. Just about 0.040" preload.
Regards
Billy D...
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Billbo said:
The oil holes are equal distant from the mounting hole but the oiling hole with the banana groove is on the valve spring side. Saying that I added 1/4 turn so I have 1 turn preload to see what happens. Just about 0.040" preload.
Regards
Billy D...
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Forgive me for not backreading if you said, but what camshaft is in this?
 
The cam is a custom job done locally here. Its very similar to the comp cams xe274 but with a bit less lift. So it is quite an aggressive ramp type cam.
 
Billbo said:
The cam is a custom job done locally here. Its very similar to the comp cams xe274 but with a bit less lift. So it is quite an aggressive ramp type cam.
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Well that in itself could be it. Aggressive cams are usually noisy.
 
Billbo said:
The engine has been running for years with this setup but I will check that. I could have missed it.
Thanks...
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If it was quieter before and this noise is new
It might be your lifters are dirty internally
Or just giving up.
I agree with Rusty on fast rate cams being noisy.
The comp XE 268h in my 340 is like a sewing machine running.
I've also put 3 sets of lifters on that cam over the last 5 years.
Because of lifters problems.
I'm done with hydraulics!
Just bought a solid flat lunati cam
And Howard's edm lifters..
Mike
 
Does anyone even grind cams in Sydney any more?
 
Camtech. I know Malcolm. His cams were very good & accurate too. Would have been a while ago you got that cam ground because he moved from CN to Taren Point some years ago before retiring.
 
Bewy said:
Camtech. I know Malcolm. His cams were very good & accurate too. Would have been a while ago you got that cam ground because he moved from CN to Taren Point some years ago before retiring.
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Always wondered what happened to Camtech, they had some good hemi 6 cams.
 
Word was that Crow in Melb ended up with Camtechs stuff.. not sure if it's true.
 
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