I'm pretty sure my valves are ticking every time I turn on my engine. Took the oil filler off to look in and kinda looks dry. The engine has been sitting for around 2 years not sure how many its been sitting before I bought it. Were do I go from her do I pull the valve cover and see what going on its all new to me. What should I do
valves ticking i think
- Thread starter martin53
- Start date
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TrailBeast
AKA Mopars4us on Youtube
Whatever you need to do to do it, get an oil pressure guage on it so you can make sure the oil pressure is ok.
Then it's entirely possible that the lifter noise will clear up after it's run for a bit.
It's normal for the lifters to rattle a little at start for a few seconds.
1 quart of ATF in the engine oil can clean that up usually if it persists.
Then it's entirely possible that the lifter noise will clear up after it's run for a bit.
It's normal for the lifters to rattle a little at start for a few seconds.
1 quart of ATF in the engine oil can clean that up usually if it persists.
Do you have adjustable rocker arms? Maybe they need adjusting...
EL5DEMON340
Well-Known Member
Oil filter after running even a few seconds should be full of oil, you could take a valve cover off and start it you should see oil at the rockers within a few to 5 seconds, if not you have a problem
RustyPlymouth
Well-Known Member
http://www.slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=72139&highlight=#72139
check out the 4th post down. fwiw slant valves always tick.
check out the 4th post down. fwiw slant valves always tick.
Yup could be perfectly normal if you have a solid lifter engine. What year is the engine?
I'm still hung up on the dry oil filter. I would think after running it there would be oil in it.
plumkrazee70
Well-Known Member
You wrote oil Filler, did you mean oil Filter?
Plumkrazee I meant the filler on the valve cover. I took the valve cover off and and turned it over and didn't see any oil at all I was looking to put a mechanical gauge in tomorrow. Some of the lifters looks loose and the others were all the way down touching the spring. Also how much are these supported to torqued to and is the inside supposed to have Burt looking oil all in it
Posted via Topify on Android
Posted via Topify on Android
78 is a solid lifter lifter valve train, as evidenced by your photos from the adjustable rockers.
nm9stheham
Well-Known Member
Just start it up and look to see if any oil is flowing about with the valve cover off. These engines typically don't spew a lot of oil around (though you might want to be ready to shut it down if it does start to get messy).
And BTW, your engine reeeeally needs the ATF or SeaFoam cleaning teatment in the oil; at least 2 times. I would buy some inexpensive oil, put it in with the ATF or Sea Foam, run it for maybe 100-200 miles, and then drain it and do that again. I bet the oil will be black as can be each time. That is a significant amount of crud in there. I have seen worse but it is not at all clean. Looks like it was run with old Quaker State oil. After 2 cleanings, I would then put a better oil in, but add in the ATF or Sea Foam after maybe 100 miles, run for another 100 miles, and change the oil again.
Of course, if the engine has other problems, then don't bother cleaning it out! do you have any ideas how many miles are on this engine?
RRR points out that this is a solid lifter engine and they are supposed to tick steadily. All of the rockers WILL be a bit loose at rest on the valves that are closed (the ones all the way up); that 'looseness' is the rocker-to-valve clearance. You should read up on the procedure for setting this clearance; the nuts on top of the rockers are what are used to adjust this clearance. If you are all new to engines, find someone competent and expereince locally to help you with this adjustment the first time.
And BTW, your engine reeeeally needs the ATF or SeaFoam cleaning teatment in the oil; at least 2 times. I would buy some inexpensive oil, put it in with the ATF or Sea Foam, run it for maybe 100-200 miles, and then drain it and do that again. I bet the oil will be black as can be each time. That is a significant amount of crud in there. I have seen worse but it is not at all clean. Looks like it was run with old Quaker State oil. After 2 cleanings, I would then put a better oil in, but add in the ATF or Sea Foam after maybe 100 miles, run for another 100 miles, and change the oil again.
Of course, if the engine has other problems, then don't bother cleaning it out! do you have any ideas how many miles are on this engine?
RRR points out that this is a solid lifter engine and they are supposed to tick steadily. All of the rockers WILL be a bit loose at rest on the valves that are closed (the ones all the way up); that 'looseness' is the rocker-to-valve clearance. You should read up on the procedure for setting this clearance; the nuts on top of the rockers are what are used to adjust this clearance. If you are all new to engines, find someone competent and expereince locally to help you with this adjustment the first time.
before you start buying parts throwing $$ at it-- clean it the best you can-- air compressor really helps. see how it runs 1st-- adjust the valves since you have the cover off read the following:
Post subject: Valve adjustment procedure (Thu May 19, 2005 1:16 pm) Reply with quote
You will need 0.009", 0.010", 0.011" feeler gauges for the intakes, and 0.019", 0.020", and 0.021" feeler gauges for the exhaust valves. I usually avoid the "valve tappet feeler gauges" with the bent/angled ends, but they will work if that's what you have. Either way, you will want the large gauges, about ½" wide by a few inches long, not the small ¼" wide type used for setting breaker point gaps. You'll also need a 7/16" wrench to remove the valve cover, and a 3/8" wrench, to adjust the tappets. I use a 3/8" drive, 3/8" socket wrench with a flex head to adjust most of the tappets, because the flex head helps keep the wrench on the moving adjustor. Sometimes a box-end wrench is necessary, though, because there's not enough room to get a socket onto the adjusting screw. In that case, use a long-handled one so you have enough leverage.
Warm the engine up thoroughly. It's best if you can go for a 10-mile drive, but if you can't, then run the engine at a fast idle until full operating temperature is reached. Shut down, pop the valve cover, and start the engine again. Adjust the carbureter idle speed and mixture screws until it's idling very slowly. Plugging the PCV valve with a piece of duct tape will help slow it down. You want it idling on all cylinders, but as slowly as possible without running rough or threatening to stall.
Now, before you start adjusting, notice that in the center of the engine, there are two intakes side by each. The order, whether you're starting at the rear or the front of the engine, is E-I-E-I-E-I-I-E-I-E-I-E. This is important to keep in mind, because it's easy to get caught up alternating intake and exhaust adjustments and forget the two intakes next to each other in the middle, with the result being half the valves adjusted incorrectly.
Put your socket wrench on the first (frontmost) valve, and get used to the wrench jerking up and down. Just hold it loosely in your hand. Before you get into the adjustment procedure, take note of the amount of muscle it takes to move the adjustors. They should be TIGHT, with a genuine "snap" feedback when you manage to turn them. If you can grab the wrench and just turn them whichever way you please with little or no effort, the threads are getting wallowed out and your careful adjustment will not last long. In this case you will need to remove the rocker shaft assembly and do one of two fixes:
The proper fix: Go get new rocker arms. They're not as easy to find as they once were, but can still be found with some dilligent searching. Usually they come with new adjustment screws, which you'll need. Note that the same rocker is used for '60-'80 Slant-6s, so if you don't think the place you hit will have rockers for a '61 Lancer, ask for them for an '80 Volare. Intake and exhaust rockers are the same, so you'll need 12 (or however many exhibited even slightly loose threads).
The quick/cheap fix: Remove the adjusting screws and lightly mar the threads with hammer-taps or a squeeze in a vise. Don't go overboard and render them useless.
It's a good idea to take a look and see whether the rocker assembly is oiling properly. With the engine idling, you should see oil dribbling evenly out of the driver's side tip of each rocker arm, and dribbling down onto each pushrod via the rear of each rocker arm. Rev the engine and you should get little spatters of oil flying. Don't expect to see gushing anywhere, but you should definitely have flow up top. If not, you've got some cleanin' to do. Remove the rocker shaft assembly, Dig the endplugs out of the shaft, string all the spacers and rocker arms (minus adjustors) on a steel wire, and take the shaft and strung parts to a machine shop to be hot-tanked. If things aren't so gunky as to require the hot-tank treatment (i.e., you can see oil squirting out of the holes on the ends of each rocker arm) then just use a spray can of Berryman's B12 Chemtool or equivalent carburetor cleaner and a piece of semi-stiff wire to probe and clean the hole in the end of each rocker arm (at the valve end).
Now, on to the adjustment!
Method 1: Select the 0.020" feeler gauge, and slip it between the end of the frontmost (exhaust) rocker arm and the top of the valve stem. Each time the valve opens, the feeler gauge will be clamped tightly between rocker and stem. While the valve is closed, you will be able to slide the gauge in and out. You want a slide-fit, which is tighter than a loose slip-fit, but looser than a tight friction fit. Moving the gauge in and out rapidly in time with the valve opening and closing is a good way to do it. Don't try to get it spot-on, just get it close. Next, move to the intake valve next the exhaust. Repeat the procedure, but use the 0.010" gauge. You want the same kind of fit. If it will be easier for you, go ahead and do all the intakes (with the 0.010) and then all the exhausts (with the 0.020).
Now, after you've done them all, go back and do them again. You will find that some of them (most of them) are not as perfect as you had thought. You can do 4 or 5 of these cycles in a leisurely 45 minutes. Spend the extra timeit's worth it.
When you think you've got it, speed up the engine a bit by operating the throttle with your hand. Do all the valves sound even? None is clacking any louder than the rest? Or maybe they're all still clacking too loudly. This is where all those extra gauges come in handy. If you're not completely confident that you really set the valves to 0.010" and 0.020", you can use the surrounding sizes (0.009", 0.011", 0.019", 0.021") as sort of "check" gauges, where the thinner gauges (0.009", 0.019") should be a loose fit, the on-spec gauge (0.010"/0.020") should be a snug fit, and you should have to fight a little to remove the thicker gauges (0.011", 0.021") gauges once you've inserted them.
The 0.010" and 0.020" adjustment is factory spec for stock cams. Different cams will call for different adjustment specs, and two engines with the same cam may "prefer" different adjustments. If you have a stock or near-stock cam, you'll probably wind up with a final setting of 0.009" to 0.012" intake, 0.019" to 0.024" on the exhaust. Note that 0.012" and 0.024" were specified by the factory for slant-6s used in trucks. The crucial thing is not to overly tighten them, for if you do you'll spoil your engine's performance and economy (intakes too tight), and burn valves (exhausts too tight). But you do have a few thousandths leeway each direction to play with. You'll know if you're holding a valve open because the idle will roughen. You can see this effect by placing an oversize gauge (say, an 0.025" or an 0.013") in between the rocker arm tip and the valve stem tip after it's been adjusted and while the engine is running.
If for some reason you don't want to adjust the valves with the engine running, assemble the same gauges and tools, but also buy a cheap distributor cap. Cut off all six towers and punch out the aluminum inserts. Enlarge each of the six holes. Now, with the engine running, (with the real distributor cap, not this dummy one!) set ignition timing at idle to 0° (TDC). This is after having warmed up the engine. With the valve cover off and the engine shut down, install your new dummy distributor cap. Now turn the engine by pulling the fan and belt so that you can see the rotor under hole number one, which is at about the 4:00 position, and adjust the frontmost 2 valves. (look at the manifolds to see which valve you're adjusting.) Turn the fan so the rotor points to the next hole. The rotor may turn in either direction, depending on how you're turning the engine. If the rotor moves clockwise, the order in which you'll be adjusting your valves is 1-5-3-6-2-4. If the moves anticlockwise, the order is 1-4-2-6-3-5. Remember, 1 is frontmost, 6 is rearmost. Work fast so the engine doesn't cool down too much.
A word about valve cover gaskets: Use a rubber one, not cork. Chrysler 2899 250 or Fel-Pro VS-6280R.
_________________
borrowed from Slantsix.org
Lawrence
Post subject: Valve adjustment procedure (Thu May 19, 2005 1:16 pm) Reply with quote
You will need 0.009", 0.010", 0.011" feeler gauges for the intakes, and 0.019", 0.020", and 0.021" feeler gauges for the exhaust valves. I usually avoid the "valve tappet feeler gauges" with the bent/angled ends, but they will work if that's what you have. Either way, you will want the large gauges, about ½" wide by a few inches long, not the small ¼" wide type used for setting breaker point gaps. You'll also need a 7/16" wrench to remove the valve cover, and a 3/8" wrench, to adjust the tappets. I use a 3/8" drive, 3/8" socket wrench with a flex head to adjust most of the tappets, because the flex head helps keep the wrench on the moving adjustor. Sometimes a box-end wrench is necessary, though, because there's not enough room to get a socket onto the adjusting screw. In that case, use a long-handled one so you have enough leverage.
Warm the engine up thoroughly. It's best if you can go for a 10-mile drive, but if you can't, then run the engine at a fast idle until full operating temperature is reached. Shut down, pop the valve cover, and start the engine again. Adjust the carbureter idle speed and mixture screws until it's idling very slowly. Plugging the PCV valve with a piece of duct tape will help slow it down. You want it idling on all cylinders, but as slowly as possible without running rough or threatening to stall.
Now, before you start adjusting, notice that in the center of the engine, there are two intakes side by each. The order, whether you're starting at the rear or the front of the engine, is E-I-E-I-E-I-I-E-I-E-I-E. This is important to keep in mind, because it's easy to get caught up alternating intake and exhaust adjustments and forget the two intakes next to each other in the middle, with the result being half the valves adjusted incorrectly.
Put your socket wrench on the first (frontmost) valve, and get used to the wrench jerking up and down. Just hold it loosely in your hand. Before you get into the adjustment procedure, take note of the amount of muscle it takes to move the adjustors. They should be TIGHT, with a genuine "snap" feedback when you manage to turn them. If you can grab the wrench and just turn them whichever way you please with little or no effort, the threads are getting wallowed out and your careful adjustment will not last long. In this case you will need to remove the rocker shaft assembly and do one of two fixes:
The proper fix: Go get new rocker arms. They're not as easy to find as they once were, but can still be found with some dilligent searching. Usually they come with new adjustment screws, which you'll need. Note that the same rocker is used for '60-'80 Slant-6s, so if you don't think the place you hit will have rockers for a '61 Lancer, ask for them for an '80 Volare. Intake and exhaust rockers are the same, so you'll need 12 (or however many exhibited even slightly loose threads).
The quick/cheap fix: Remove the adjusting screws and lightly mar the threads with hammer-taps or a squeeze in a vise. Don't go overboard and render them useless.
It's a good idea to take a look and see whether the rocker assembly is oiling properly. With the engine idling, you should see oil dribbling evenly out of the driver's side tip of each rocker arm, and dribbling down onto each pushrod via the rear of each rocker arm. Rev the engine and you should get little spatters of oil flying. Don't expect to see gushing anywhere, but you should definitely have flow up top. If not, you've got some cleanin' to do. Remove the rocker shaft assembly, Dig the endplugs out of the shaft, string all the spacers and rocker arms (minus adjustors) on a steel wire, and take the shaft and strung parts to a machine shop to be hot-tanked. If things aren't so gunky as to require the hot-tank treatment (i.e., you can see oil squirting out of the holes on the ends of each rocker arm) then just use a spray can of Berryman's B12 Chemtool or equivalent carburetor cleaner and a piece of semi-stiff wire to probe and clean the hole in the end of each rocker arm (at the valve end).
Now, on to the adjustment!
Method 1: Select the 0.020" feeler gauge, and slip it between the end of the frontmost (exhaust) rocker arm and the top of the valve stem. Each time the valve opens, the feeler gauge will be clamped tightly between rocker and stem. While the valve is closed, you will be able to slide the gauge in and out. You want a slide-fit, which is tighter than a loose slip-fit, but looser than a tight friction fit. Moving the gauge in and out rapidly in time with the valve opening and closing is a good way to do it. Don't try to get it spot-on, just get it close. Next, move to the intake valve next the exhaust. Repeat the procedure, but use the 0.010" gauge. You want the same kind of fit. If it will be easier for you, go ahead and do all the intakes (with the 0.010) and then all the exhausts (with the 0.020).
Now, after you've done them all, go back and do them again. You will find that some of them (most of them) are not as perfect as you had thought. You can do 4 or 5 of these cycles in a leisurely 45 minutes. Spend the extra timeit's worth it.
When you think you've got it, speed up the engine a bit by operating the throttle with your hand. Do all the valves sound even? None is clacking any louder than the rest? Or maybe they're all still clacking too loudly. This is where all those extra gauges come in handy. If you're not completely confident that you really set the valves to 0.010" and 0.020", you can use the surrounding sizes (0.009", 0.011", 0.019", 0.021") as sort of "check" gauges, where the thinner gauges (0.009", 0.019") should be a loose fit, the on-spec gauge (0.010"/0.020") should be a snug fit, and you should have to fight a little to remove the thicker gauges (0.011", 0.021") gauges once you've inserted them.
The 0.010" and 0.020" adjustment is factory spec for stock cams. Different cams will call for different adjustment specs, and two engines with the same cam may "prefer" different adjustments. If you have a stock or near-stock cam, you'll probably wind up with a final setting of 0.009" to 0.012" intake, 0.019" to 0.024" on the exhaust. Note that 0.012" and 0.024" were specified by the factory for slant-6s used in trucks. The crucial thing is not to overly tighten them, for if you do you'll spoil your engine's performance and economy (intakes too tight), and burn valves (exhausts too tight). But you do have a few thousandths leeway each direction to play with. You'll know if you're holding a valve open because the idle will roughen. You can see this effect by placing an oversize gauge (say, an 0.025" or an 0.013") in between the rocker arm tip and the valve stem tip after it's been adjusted and while the engine is running.
If for some reason you don't want to adjust the valves with the engine running, assemble the same gauges and tools, but also buy a cheap distributor cap. Cut off all six towers and punch out the aluminum inserts. Enlarge each of the six holes. Now, with the engine running, (with the real distributor cap, not this dummy one!) set ignition timing at idle to 0° (TDC). This is after having warmed up the engine. With the valve cover off and the engine shut down, install your new dummy distributor cap. Now turn the engine by pulling the fan and belt so that you can see the rotor under hole number one, which is at about the 4:00 position, and adjust the frontmost 2 valves. (look at the manifolds to see which valve you're adjusting.) Turn the fan so the rotor points to the next hole. The rotor may turn in either direction, depending on how you're turning the engine. If the rotor moves clockwise, the order in which you'll be adjusting your valves is 1-5-3-6-2-4. If the moves anticlockwise, the order is 1-4-2-6-3-5. Remember, 1 is frontmost, 6 is rearmost. Work fast so the engine doesn't cool down too much.
A word about valve cover gaskets: Use a rubber one, not cork. Chrysler 2899 250 or Fel-Pro VS-6280R.
_________________
borrowed from Slantsix.org
Lawrence
LTOP
Active Member
Why don't slants have a cold static setting for the rockers? You would think that someone could make the setting adjustment for the difference in the heat. In other words, if the rocker setting is .012 hot, then it would maybe be .014 cold. Could someone take a properly adjusted overhead and then remeasure cold, engine off, on the base circle?
Really not THAT critical. Just add .002" to the spec and adjust them cold.
nm9stheham
Well-Known Member
Because the engineers didn't think it was the best way to do it? Doing it hot is not all that hard. I learned how to do it from My Uncle James on his '60 Lancer when I was 8 years old.....!
BTW, the very thorough post is appreciated, VDART.
BTW, the very thorough post is appreciated, VDART.
Adjusting them with the engine running is awkward and dangerous. If that's how you want to do it, knock yourself out, but I am not going to recommend it to anyone, I don't give a damn what engineers or service manuals say.
I do not understand-- you asked for advice & then ignore it. you have a slant 6 with mechanical lifters they need periodic adjustment-- you have the engine apart ready for adjustment --you have been given good advice & the procedures to start making this engine perform better,
dump your seafoam in & listen the valves clatter.
dump your seafoam in & listen the valves clatter.
were you careful to get the middle valves adjusted correctly-- there are 2 intake or exhaust valves next to each other-- make sure that you put the correct adjustment on them-- this can cause a wheezing-- if the valves are correct your engine should have quieted down & smoothed out.
next step is to check for gasket leaks around the carb /intalke /exhaust manifold attaching area-- spray carb cleaner at selective points to see if engine speed changes-- if so you have a leak.
if no leaks --spray carb cleaner liberally in carb -- when it looks clean-- adjust said carb to the highest idle you can get(vacuum gauge would be best-- but ear should get you close.)--
there is more but see what that gets you.
Lawrence
next step is to check for gasket leaks around the carb /intalke /exhaust manifold attaching area-- spray carb cleaner at selective points to see if engine speed changes-- if so you have a leak.
if no leaks --spray carb cleaner liberally in carb -- when it looks clean-- adjust said carb to the highest idle you can get(vacuum gauge would be best-- but ear should get you close.)--
there is more but see what that gets you.
Lawrence
If the ticking has completely gone away, you have them adjusted incorrectly.
I'm gonna try adjusting them cold its hard with the engine on. I thought I had them adjusted but a few went back to ticking. I have one rocker that won't shoot oil out I'm thinking of taking them completely of and cleaning them. I had wheezing on the middle intake but seemed like it was adjusted correctly. I'm new to it but I'll keep going till I get it.
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