What do YOU want in a new wiring harness?
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67Dart273
Well-Known Member
In my opinion, bulkhead connectors are more trouble than they are worth. I know full well that there are some who disagree with this.
But you DO need a large enough feed-through device that you can yank the engine bay harness "in" to the interior.
Lots of fuses, and unlike the Painless harness I bought, I want to be able to configure the fuse panel busses they way "I" want.
STOP LABELING WIRES with FUNCTION, like heater, etc
Go ahead and COLOR and NUMBER them, FINE
In my car, I never had and never WILL HAVE "power locks" or "power windows."
So whatever I use those circuits for, I'm forever condemmed to having them labeled wrong
When in doubt, supply larger ga. wire. If the factory used 10, the supplier should probably upgrade to 8
Lighting circuits should be no14, headlights might be larger yet, and there should be provisio for relays, headlight, pump, etc, without having to "hob gob" them in a separate box. INTEGRATE that as an option into the harness.
I could write a book.
Oh, and a personal message to Ron Francis and others.
Just give us a damn extra wire for the ignition bypass. I don't give a crap what he says about diodes.
But you DO need a large enough feed-through device that you can yank the engine bay harness "in" to the interior.
Lots of fuses, and unlike the Painless harness I bought, I want to be able to configure the fuse panel busses they way "I" want.
STOP LABELING WIRES with FUNCTION, like heater, etc
Go ahead and COLOR and NUMBER them, FINE
In my car, I never had and never WILL HAVE "power locks" or "power windows."
So whatever I use those circuits for, I'm forever condemmed to having them labeled wrong
When in doubt, supply larger ga. wire. If the factory used 10, the supplier should probably upgrade to 8
Lighting circuits should be no14, headlights might be larger yet, and there should be provisio for relays, headlight, pump, etc, without having to "hob gob" them in a separate box. INTEGRATE that as an option into the harness.
I could write a book.
Oh, and a personal message to Ron Francis and others.
Just give us a damn extra wire for the ignition bypass. I don't give a crap what he says about diodes.
Thats awsm. Please, feel free to continue your book! I may have some questions, but wont consider any suggestions or ideas to be "wrong". Not looking for any arguements, slam or flame jobs, just ideas. Would prefer to keep this one as clean as possible.
Thanks again.
C
Thanks again.
C
Demon 408
Well-Known Member
As a starting point I used the original stock under dash harness and replaced the engine, forward lamp and rear harness with Year One reproductions.
But, here's what I modified:
1. Repaired and thoroughly checked under dash harness and cleaned bulkhead connector
2. Ammeter bypass, changed to voltmeter
3. Hard wired BATT and Alt voltage throughout vehicle bypassing bulkhead (used grommets and terminal blocks) and increased wire gauge
4. Kept bulkhead connector for all other circuits
5. Moved battery to trunk
The "pro" to using this method is that the Factory Service manual wiring diagram still applies, except for my modifications, and for those I created my own schematic and the system looks "stock" under the hood.
I have a very simple system with no added electrical components. The one thing I would add is a distribution block under the dash for switched 12 volts and Batt 12 volts to make it easier to add accessories.
See my thread here for details: http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=73437
abodyjoe
Well-Known Member
Basically I would want an American auto wire classic update like they have for gm and Ford products. It's as close to plug and play as you can get but has a ton of upgrades. I have heard they may be working on a ebody version already. .
magnumdart
There is a bad moon on the rise.
No paddle type connectors.
Paddle type?
So for a connection of the new wire to an existing, like a lamp socket, if the oe type housing is no longer avail what would you prefer? Butt splice and heat shrink yourself, 2 halves of an insulated quick disconnect with one side pre installed on the new wire, the other side butted in and needing the old wire crimped in, or new oe type fittings and reuse the old housing?
So for a connection of the new wire to an existing, like a lamp socket, if the oe type housing is no longer avail what would you prefer? Butt splice and heat shrink yourself, 2 halves of an insulated quick disconnect with one side pre installed on the new wire, the other side butted in and needing the old wire crimped in, or new oe type fittings and reuse the old housing?
magnumdart
There is a bad moon on the rise.
They came up with spade terminals to speed up the assembly line. Highly unreliable. Ring type would be the way to go. If screws are captive then use a flanged spade connector. If you are joining wire together permanantly, weld it,then wrap it.
abodyjoe
Well-Known Member
first off if i'm doing a new harness in my car i'm not using any of the existing wires. especially to a light socket. thats just a half assed way of doing things. i'm rebuilding the the light socket with new wire all the way to the bulb. and for where the factory connector was to join the light socket wiring into the car harness i'm using weatherpack connections. thats exactly how i did my car when we re wired it..
new wire all the way to the bulb. socket was sand blasted out and all greased up when done.
weatherpack connectors for the light harness. way nucer then the rubber connectors that the factory used in 1971. in the picture is the new rewired headlight plug and the new car side of the side marker light wiring...
abodyjoe
Well-Known Member
new.
Abj: you are certainly entitled to your opinions and procedures, i asked, but please dont deem another method as "half ***" just because it isnt your preferred. Some things just arent practical for all people. Which is why i started this thread. If you will kindly refer to the op....? A simple reference to what you dont care for would be much appreciated over continual quotes. No one is challenging you or trying to proove you wrong.
Thank you for your input and understanding.
Thank you for your input and understanding.
I have noticed that many new lamp sockets, molded plugs such as voltage regulator and stock electronic ign come with 6 to 10" leads already installed. What would be recomended or not to install theese to new wire.
There is also a ? I have of how to hook up to temp sending units and fuel sending units. What works for you?
(be nice)
There is also a ? I have of how to hook up to temp sending units and fuel sending units. What works for you?
(be nice)
fstfish66
Well-Known Member
just following along,,
joe i like the weather pack idea,,,
joe i like the weather pack idea,,,
abodyjoe
Well-Known Member
sorry but if your going to rewire a car and leave a foot of 40 year old wire going to the light sockets where mist likely some of your problem is. It's a half asses way to do it. Sorry but that's the fact, I call it as I see it . If someone is taking on wiring a car already ,going the extra step to wire and properly ground the light sockets sure isn't un- practical. You already have the tools and wire there. You just need a connector (preferably a weatherpack) and the little for things that go in the socket that's on the end of the wire.
abodyjoe
Well-Known Member
I have noticed that many new lamp sockets, molded plugs such as voltage regulator and stock electronic ign come with 6 to 10" leads already installed. What would be recomended or not to install theese to new wire.
There is also a ? I have of how to hook up to temp sending units and fuel sending units. What works for you?
(be nice)
The pigtails are easily soldered and double wall hear shrunk.
Temp and fuel would be best with the stick style push on connector. Well atleast for the gas because your limited there. The temp if you supply a new temp sender it can open up better connector options.
Yes, makes sense from a consumer or installer's stand point.
Now please try to look at it from a supplier's or manufacturer's stand point. All of your ideas are perfectly acceptable. But could be difficult to cost effectively implement in the production side. Which is why i said i wouldnt argue or say any suggestions are wrong. Am trying to find some middle ground between the two sides. Some things would be very difficult to make everyone happy on.
Mayb i'm looking to start a new buisness, or improve an existing product...either way all is taken under advisement.
Now please try to look at it from a supplier's or manufacturer's stand point. All of your ideas are perfectly acceptable. But could be difficult to cost effectively implement in the production side. Which is why i said i wouldnt argue or say any suggestions are wrong. Am trying to find some middle ground between the two sides. Some things would be very difficult to make everyone happy on.
Mayb i'm looking to start a new buisness, or improve an existing product...either way all is taken under advisement.
mopar head
Well-Known Member
I think a large weather proof amphenol military grade connector would be the ticket for a bulkhead connector. keeping same color codes, but upgradeing wire size where needed, or three smaller ones. the modern weather proof connectors are so much better than the old stuff.
That ab&e stuff looks to be trouble in the makeing, and high$[-X
That ab&e stuff looks to be trouble in the makeing, and high$[-X
abodyjoe
Well-Known Member
You'll never make everyone happy. And unless its $150 or less a lot of cheap *** mopar guys won't even give it a second look. That's just a fact of the mopar market.
If you reality want to make a good harness mimic this http://www.americanautowire.com/classicupdate.html. only a mopar version. That's what is needed in the mopar world. Only things out there now are street rod universal kits like I put in my car. It was very complete and top notch quality and easily adaptable to my car but far from plug and play. Then you have the basic little ez wire style kits that are not a very complete kit at all. The classic update is a huge void in the mopar market. Even if you or someone else builds it the trick is selling it to a cheap crowd of enthusiasts.
If you reality want to make a good harness mimic this http://www.americanautowire.com/classicupdate.html. only a mopar version. That's what is needed in the mopar world. Only things out there now are street rod universal kits like I put in my car. It was very complete and top notch quality and easily adaptable to my car but far from plug and play. Then you have the basic little ez wire style kits that are not a very complete kit at all. The classic update is a huge void in the mopar market. Even if you or someone else builds it the trick is selling it to a cheap crowd of enthusiasts.
Demon 408
Well-Known Member
You're vague on your original post, so what exactly are you trying to accomplish with this thread? Are you considering developing and selling a wiring harness? Or are you looking to upgrade your ride's electrical system?
Now we're getting somewhere...
Would be in the developmental area. Everything on my car works very well.
Unfort due to raw material costs and labor rates (americans wont work for $.13 an hr like the chineese)
$150 kit just wont happen. I have installed current kits on the market and the majority are lacking at best.
Having been an engine builder for over 12 years i can honestly say chrysler guys are more willing to spend than say gm or some ford guys. Most of the stuff for our cars just plain aint cheap!
Most of the mopar people i know here wont drive their cars in the rain, or even every day so weather proof stuff isnt a major issue down here (fl)
I can see where it would be for those who dont have another daily driver and have no choice but to brave the sleet snow and rain.
There is also the issue of what the average installer knows, and what he has available for tooling when it comes to connector choices. Harness style, individual one wire at a time, removeable or permanant labeling are all considerations. Some bulkhead options simply wouldnt be cost effective. I personally prefer a means of disconnect simply because i change things and work on my car frequently.
Am simply looking into what can be done practically on both sides of the fence. There is definately a void in the chrysler wiring market, gm & f crowd has been spoiled long enough in my eyes. I dont want to start a mud slinging war bashing what is already out there. But most of it is set up for brand x and can be made to work for us. Thats just plain wrong. I dont want a ferd regulator or gm headlight switch. Esp if the car came with toggle/rotary switches like e bodys.
I look forward to more input, but could we play nice on this one.
Thanks all.
Would be in the developmental area. Everything on my car works very well.
Unfort due to raw material costs and labor rates (americans wont work for $.13 an hr like the chineese)
$150 kit just wont happen. I have installed current kits on the market and the majority are lacking at best.
Having been an engine builder for over 12 years i can honestly say chrysler guys are more willing to spend than say gm or some ford guys. Most of the stuff for our cars just plain aint cheap!
Most of the mopar people i know here wont drive their cars in the rain, or even every day so weather proof stuff isnt a major issue down here (fl)
I can see where it would be for those who dont have another daily driver and have no choice but to brave the sleet snow and rain.
There is also the issue of what the average installer knows, and what he has available for tooling when it comes to connector choices. Harness style, individual one wire at a time, removeable or permanant labeling are all considerations. Some bulkhead options simply wouldnt be cost effective. I personally prefer a means of disconnect simply because i change things and work on my car frequently.
Am simply looking into what can be done practically on both sides of the fence. There is definately a void in the chrysler wiring market, gm & f crowd has been spoiled long enough in my eyes. I dont want to start a mud slinging war bashing what is already out there. But most of it is set up for brand x and can be made to work for us. Thats just plain wrong. I dont want a ferd regulator or gm headlight switch. Esp if the car came with toggle/rotary switches like e bodys.
I look forward to more input, but could we play nice on this one.
Thanks all.
Demon 408
Well-Known Member
No problem with what you're trying to do or with playing "nice". I beleive there is a market for Mopar wiring but as AB Joe said it will be tough to please all. The market is covered for the "stock" replacement and for the "roll your own" guys, but what's needed is a modified stock-type system that provides some level of plug and play and corrects the stock wiring harness shortfalls while keeping a reasonable price.
I agree, the stock or correct resto drum has been beat to death.
The hardwire ball from the fuse pnl kit is quite painfull.
Not into standing on my head to crimp on ring terminals and landing one at a time on pnl, then stringing wire everywhere either. I would like plug in harness style, but updated.
What to do about certain mopar specific connectors and housings. Headlight, wiper switches etc. The terminals are avail to go into the plug housings, but require special (and expensive) crimp tools. So pre-crimp them on before they go out or provide another means. This is where the cost drivers start building a mopar system.
Headlight relays seem to be popular now.
included as standard, or an option?
This will add $30-$50 to final system price dep upon relays used. There are a lot of "relay kits" out there that use two 5 pole relays, and only half of the relay. No need for a norm closed side if not used.
I see a lot of the oe pit falls spread around the site. Could we compile them in one area and address each?
What would be considered a reasonable price for such a system? $200 wont get the job done, $1k is out of reach for many.
The hardwire ball from the fuse pnl kit is quite painfull.
Not into standing on my head to crimp on ring terminals and landing one at a time on pnl, then stringing wire everywhere either. I would like plug in harness style, but updated.
What to do about certain mopar specific connectors and housings. Headlight, wiper switches etc. The terminals are avail to go into the plug housings, but require special (and expensive) crimp tools. So pre-crimp them on before they go out or provide another means. This is where the cost drivers start building a mopar system.
Headlight relays seem to be popular now.
included as standard, or an option?
This will add $30-$50 to final system price dep upon relays used. There are a lot of "relay kits" out there that use two 5 pole relays, and only half of the relay. No need for a norm closed side if not used.
I see a lot of the oe pit falls spread around the site. Could we compile them in one area and address each?
What would be considered a reasonable price for such a system? $200 wont get the job done, $1k is out of reach for many.
Demon 408
Well-Known Member
Some will argue that relays are needed in all instances but I feel it could be an option. Another option is a kit to mount the battery in the trunk with rear mounted "kill switch" that meets NHRA requirements.
If you convert to different (non-stock) type bulkhead and connectors then buyers could not piece it together with stock system at common connector points. This means that it's an all or nothing deal and would raise the initial cost to buyer.
abodyjoe
Well-Known Member
You obviously don't follow many threads on wiring kits on the different mopar boards. Hell even with motors I see mopar guy spend 10k on a motor only to cheap out on a converter. I see the cheapness all the time with all kinds of parts. .
Unless your only selling to show cars in Fla your going to have to make connections weather proof. Otherwise you lose a bunch of potential customers or worse yet get bad mouthed all over the net when some chump buys your unprotected harness and has problems because of corrosion at a non weather proof connection.
I'm not trying to bust your balls here but if your going to do this at least do it right.
AS FAR as the so called average installer goes . If he can't or won't buy the proper tools to install the kit properly then in reality he probably shouldn't be rewiring his entire car anyway. If someone is going to half *** an install they are just asking for problems.
The only other way to do it is make it 100% plug and play. Not sure if its even possible and if it is up goes the price.
You are the one that has to decide on what to build. A nice harness to be proud of or a cheap pile of Crap.
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