What is a good stall to go with a 3:23 Sure Grip?

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BigB6958

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Engine I am putting in will be a 1992 360/5.9 bored .020 over with a variety of work done to it getting about 10.25 compression so approx 400HP and 400LB torque. The car came to me with a 904 trans that I am getting rebuilt and an 8 3/4 rear end with a Sure Grip chunk. I measured the ratio (like 5 times in the hopes it was 3:55) at 3:23. Someone recommended a 2800 stall to go with 3:55 and I wondered if that might be more suited to a that or higher gear setup, and too much for 3:23. I don't plan on racing it but would love to lay down some nice rubber on the road occasionally and still be reasonable on the highway.

Thoughts? I can provide more info if this isn't enough to recommend.

B
 
2800 is about what the stone stock 340 converter was. If you have an honest 400HP, you've probably got a lot more cam than a stock 340. Can you give us all the engine build details?
 
It's been my experience that larger cams and taller gears don't mesh well with high stall converters. Cam duration, tire size and rear end ratio all play a big part and free flowing exhaust definitely helps. But you're thinking on the right track.
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Stock 340 would be my choice with your compo.

If still externally balanced you will need either a balance weight on
convertoror an aftermarket correct compensation flex plate.
 
Calgary airport is at like 4000 ft elevation? If your numbers are referenced for sealevel, yur gonna be shy of the 400/400. and you may need more than 10.25 Scr. Your stall is gonna depend a great deal on your final Cylinder pressure. AND if a 230*/110 cam, 3.23s are NOT gonna cut it.
With a 223*/110 cam maybe, but at 4000ft I wouldn't run a 110 Lsa.
So the question is;
what elevation are you gonna be running at ?
And if at multiple elevations I highly recommend alloy heads, and punch the pressure up to as high as you dare, at the lowest elevation. I have run as high as 195psi still on 87E10. But my current cam is at ~185psi

If you don't keep the Cylinder Pressure up, you are gonna be forced to run more gear and a higher stall, just to get off the line with reasonable aplomb.
If you desire to keep the 3.23s and a stockish stall, you are gonna need to run the pressure up. Currently at 10.25 and say an Ica of 64*, your pressure at 4000ft is gonna be around 148psi, and your 5.9 is gonna feel like a 5.2, outta the gate. In an A-body and an A904, and a 2000 stall that should spin the tires, but not for long.
So, you got a choice;
Put some 3.73s or better back there, and a 3000 stall,
Or
install some small closed chamber alloy heads and get the Scr up to something like 11.5, with the next smaller cam, with an Ica of say 61. That is gonna get you pressure up to around 180, and now, your engine is gonna feel like mine. This will run the 3.23s no problem, and whatever stall you got.
so then, it's a dollars comparison, but I guarantee you that you'll never be sorry at 180psi.

The thing is, even if you did have 400/400;
top of First gear with 3.23s is about 6000=55mph. On the shift, the Rs will fall to 59%, say 3500, and yur 400/400 combo at 148psi /4000 ft elevation is sucking wind. Right there is where the 180 psi, smaller cam is gonna pick yur combo up out of the basement and send it. So you'll be trading some power at 6000 where you don't need it, for some power at 3500 where you are desperate for it, right?

Bottom line, if you are at 4000 ft, IMO, you gotta think pressure.
 
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I’m in the same city as you and run a mopar performance 402 crate. (435HP 460 TQ). I’ve run 4.30, 4.10, 3.91, 3.23.

billet 2800 stall that foot brakes to about 2450 before pushing, flash stall is aright around 2800.

It liquifies the ties with 3.91-4.30
It boils tires with 3.23 (if you want it to) but also does hook up sooner.

27" x 10" tires

I think the perfect gear for me will end up 3.73. No matter how often I get tired of the car revving high and using a lot of fuel in favour of highway gears (3.23) I always get a little bored and want to head back the realm of more ‘city fun’ gears. The occurance of any of us (me for sure) of doing a lot of highway driving in our muscles cars is not often, even though that is the justification for changing to a 3.23 to begin with. Which has made me come to my ultimate decision to run 3.73 and just suck it up when it comes to higher revs and fuel consumption on the highway for the limited number of trips I’ll do that way in favour of better and more fun around the town gears.

Unless you have a pretty rank cam it’s probably not making 400hp. I have 42 cubes more than you with a pretty lumpy cam (235@50, around 515lift, 108 centerline), 9.0 compression, decent flowing Magnum R/T heads and it only makes 435.

Be honest with yourself regarding how much highway you want to do. Perhaps A 3.7 or a 3.9 gear would be more ideal.

I’d stick to a 2800 maybe 3000 with your car.

Which, by the way, what are you driving? Maybe I’ve seen you around or can keep an eye out for you this coming year?

AJ/formS - Calgary is 3500 feet, Edmonton track is 2200.
 
GTX JOHN said:
Stock 340 would be my choice with your compo.

If still externally balanced you will need either a balance weight on
convertoror an aftermarket correct compensation flex plate.
Click to expand...
Who makes the 340 "replacement" converter? Do you have a supplier ?
 
In my humble opinion.....
The more motor (displacement) you have with 3.23s, the less stall you need. With a 360, I'd try for~2500. With a 440, 2200 might be fine.
On the other hand, the more cam duration you have, the more stall (and gear!) you need.
Just don't buy the cheapest converter you can find.
 
RustyRatRod said:
2800 is about what the stone stock 340 converter was. If you have an honest 400HP, you've probably got a lot more cam than a stock 340. Can you give us all the engine build
Click to expand...

RustyRatRod said:
As usual, we ask for details and get frikkin crickets.
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Relax RustyDude...I was busy and I am not watching the board all day long like you might be. The best info I have on the engine right now is the following....

1992 360 Magnum block heads and crank. Externally balanced. Crank is std/std and the block is fluxed for cracks and blasted clean, bored .020 over. Cam (no spec yet but hoping to have it soon but it is the stock camshaft that comes with the 390HP 360 crate engine), all bearings, valves, springs, keepers, locks and seals, rods. rockers, lifters (hydraulic). pistons (10.25:1, .020 oversized) are all brand new. Brand new ceramic coated Hedman headers. Upper is Victor Super intake with an Edelbrock AVS2 750cfm. The front end has been set up to with with 69 and older style rad and hoses.

Tranny is a stock 904 but will be rebuilt with a shift kit.

Engine is purchased after I got the car, the rest of the drivetrain was already in it.

2373757744297781561.jpeg


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7565359002926659876.jpeg
 
BigB6958 said:
Relax RustyDude...I was busy and I am not watching the board all day long like you might be. The best info I have on the engine right now is the following....

1992 360 Magnum block heads and crank. Crank is std/std and the block is fluxed for cracks and blasted clean, bored .020 over. Cam (no spec yet but hoping to have it soon but it is the stock camshaft that comes with the 390HP 360 crate engine), all bearings, valves, springs, keepers, locks and seals, rods. rockers, lifters (hydraulic). pistons (10.25:1, .020 oversized) are all brand new. Upper is Victor Super intake with an Edelbrock AVS2 750cfm. The front end has been set up to with with 69 and older style rad and hoses.

Tranny is a stock 904 but will be rebuilt with a shift kit.

Engine is purchased after I got the car, the rest of the drivetrain was already in it.
Click to expand...
Ok, fair enough. Thanks. So here's my question. Is the rear gear there to stay? That's a pretty lumpy cam from memory and it needs more stall than 2800. I'd go with a tight 3200-3600 if it was mine.
 
4mulas said:
I’m in the same city as you and run a mopar performance 402 crate. (435HP 460 TQ). I’ve run 4.30, 4.10, 3.91, 3.23.

billet 2800 stall that foot brakes to about 2450 before pushing, flash stall is aright around 2800.

It liquifies the ties with 3.91-4.30
It boils tires with 3.23 (if you want it to) but also does hook up sooner.

27" x 10" tires

I think the perfect gear for me will end up 3.73. No matter how often I get tired of the car revving high and using a lot of fuel in favour of highway gears (3.23) I always get a little bored and want to head back the realm of more ‘city fun’ gears. The occurance of any of us (me for sure) of doing a lot of highway driving in our muscles cars is not often, even though that is the justification for changing to a 3.23 to begin with. Which has made me come to my ultimate decision to run 3.73 and just suck it up when it comes to higher revs and fuel consumption on the highway for the limited number of trips I’ll do that way in favour of better and more fun around the town gears.

Unless you have a pretty rank cam it’s probably not making 400hp. I have 42 cubes more than you with a pretty lumpy cam (235@50, around 515lift, 108 centerline), 9.0 compression, decent flowing Magnum R/T heads and it only makes 435.

Be honest with yourself regarding how much highway you want to do. Perhaps A 3.7 or a 3.9 gear would be more ideal.

I’d stick to a 2800 maybe 3000 with your car.

Which, by the way, what are you driving? Maybe I’ve seen you around or can keep an eye out for you this coming year?

AJ/formS - Calgary is 3500 feet, Edmonton track is 2200.
Click to expand...
Car is nowhere near on the road yet, but would love to get together for a coffee and learn things from those with more experience than me. My previous rebuilds were all Ford so the Mopar world is still a bit of a learning curve.
 
RustyRatRod said:
Ok, fair enough. Thanks. So here's my question. Is the rear gear there to stay? That's a pretty lumpy cam from memory and it needs more stall than 2800. I'd go with a tight 3200-3600 if it was mine.
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The rear gears can be changed for sure. I was thinking of moving to a 3:55 setup. I don't think its that expensive a swap since I already have a good SureGrip and I figure the 3:55 would get more out of the engine all around.
 
Get a tight converter built that flashes hard.

Converters today are not the marshmellows of the past.

Is that the engine pictured with current intake? That sure doesn't look like a SV intake. More like an Air Gap (likely better than a SV for the overall build)
 
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BigB6958 said:
The rear gears can be changed for sure. I was thinking of moving to a 3:55 setup. I don't think its that expensive a swap since I already have a good SureGrip and I figure the 3:55 would get more out of the engine all around.
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I think that would be a better choice.
 
crackedback said:
Get a tight converter built that flashes hard.

Converters today are not the marshmellows of the past.
Click to expand...
There is a company out in Langley BC called TCS (https://www.tcsproducts.com/) that builds them from scratch to match your engine spec. Been in this particular business for over 60 years apparently, so a lot of expertise there. A little more expensive than usual, but might be worth it to get something that helps me get the most from the engine
 
BigB6958 said:
There is a company out in Langley BC called TCS (https://www.tcsproducts.com/) that builds them from scratch to match your engine spec. Been in this particular business for over 60 years apparently, so a lot of expertise there. A little more expensive than usual, but might be worth it to get something that helps me get the most from the engine
Click to expand...
Absolutely agree. But they will need those camshaft specs. If they tell you some boosheet like 2500 stall.....keep shoppin.
 
I'm in the same kinda situation. Fresh 70 340, with stock 273 904 and verter.
323 sg.
I was going to do rear gears 1st, but majority here said get proper torque converter 1st(which I will), then "maybe" look for 355's. Priority is tc 1st(for me anyway).
Good luck! :thumbsup:
 
RustyRatRod said:
Absolutely agree. But they will need those camshaft specs. If they tell you some boosheet like 2500 stall.....keep shoppin.
Click to expand...
I spoke with them last week already and they wanted every spec I could give them, and also suggested I move to a 3:55 if thats not what I already had (had not done the ratio test yet)
 
May want to switch that intake out. Likely perform much better with an edelbrock rpm or similar intake.
The super Victor intake with 3.23 gears will need a 3500-4000 stall to not be a dog.
 
BigB6958 said:
I spoke with them last week already and they wanted every spec I could give them, and also suggested I move to a 3:55 if thats not what I already had (had not done the ratio test yet)
Click to expand...
And you need to TELL them too that you want something that flashes into the cam's torque range.....and that means north of 3K. But also let them know you want it tight so it will not act like it's slipping around town, but you want it to flash like a big dog on launch. At least, that's what I would tell them. Sounds like you got a good handle on it.
 
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