who is running MRL (BAM) Lifters without lifter bore sleeves

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I've just kinda been watching here.

I've run one set of small block BAM lifters, the pin oiling ones, with no lifter bore sleeves. When I first primed the engine I had the intake manifold and rocker covers off to watch the top of the engine oil. I was stunned to see the amount of oil running over the camshaft. It didn't matter where the liter was located in the bore, oil was gushing, completely covering the cam.

But it wasn't coming from around the lifter body, it was coming from the bottom of the lifter, the pin oiling system. Nobody needs that much oil on the cam and running down on the crankshaft.

So I removed the aluminum heads, pulled the lifters and swedged a tube into the lifter body, not the lifter bore, to close off the pin oiling. Ah, much better.

And, when fired, the engine always had good oil pressure. I doubt it would have with that much oil release before, but I don't know for sure, because I didn't fire it before modifying the lifters.

The engine has run that way for years.
 
IQ52 said:
I've just kinda been watching here.

I've run one set of small block BAM lifters, the pin oiling ones, with no lifter bore sleeves. When I first primed the engine I had the intake manifold and rocker covers off to watch the top of the engine oil. I was stunned to see the amount of oil running over the camshaft. It didn't matter where the liter was located in the bore, oil was gushing, completely covering the cam.

But it wasn't coming from around the lifter body, it was coming from the bottom of the lifter, the pin oiling system. Nobody needs that much oil on the cam and running down on the crankshaft.

So I removed the aluminum heads, pulled the lifters and swedged a tube into the lifter body, not the lifter bore, to close off the pin oiling. Ah, much better.

And, when fired, the engine always had good oil pressure. I doubt it would have with that much oil release before, but I don't know for sure, because I didn't fire it before modifying the lifters.

The engine has run that way for years.
Click to expand...
Never heard of this? Why did you have to pull your heads?
 
Seems like the design of the lifter and the aluminum head wouldn't let me get the lifter out with the head on. I did a 302 Ford around the same time that had that problem. Old guys sometimes get confused?
 
Sleeveing the lifter bores is good and better if the shop has the tooling to correct the location and angles - check their tooling
I do like those "bypass the cam bearing oil feed" mods
the cranks and rods need all the oil they can get
oil through the lifter / pushrods for some reliable rocker adjuster cup lube (does not take much)
 
funny you should mention oiling thru the pushrods... My plan was to run oil thru pushrods and shaft oiling my Harlan Sharps but restrict the passages to the head down to .060.... I am running Crower extreme duty Hippo solid rollers that will oil the pushrods.
Anyhow , when I called Smith Bros. to order they recommended against the oil thru pushrods citing that my spring pressure of 600# open could force the oil back down the pushrod and burn the tips/cups. They said they have had several customers fry their pushrods....
Does that make sense ?

I ordered the non oilers but now am starting to rethink that decision.
 
mbaird said:
funny you should mention oiling thru the pushrods... My plan was to run oil thru pushrods and shaft oiling my Harlan Sharps but restrict the passages to the head down to .060.... I am running Crower extreme duty Hippo solid rollers that will oil the pushrods.
Anyhow , when I called Smith Bros. to order they recommended against the oil thru pushrods citing that my spring pressure of 600# open could force the oil back down the pushrod and burn the tips/cups. They said they have had several customers fry their pushrods....
Does that make sense ?

I ordered the non oilers but now am starting to rethink that decision.
Click to expand...

I'm in the same boat, guess I'll call manton then since Smith bros don't do it.
 
mbaird said:
Anyhow , when I called Smith Bros. to order they recommended against the oil thru pushrods citing that my spring pressure of 600# open could force the oil back down the pushrod and burn the tips/cups. They said they have had several customers fry their pushrods....
Does that make sense ?
Click to expand...
A guess as to why:

It's becoming a marginally small cup and ball for the approx 900-1000 lbs of peak pressure on them (and even much higher peak loads dynamically at high RPM's). The psi on the oil film in that small area gets pretty high, and a hole within that small contact area takes away even more of that contact area, which results in the oil film being penetrated. In that regard, the hole in the pushrod IS a path for the oil to escape from the cup, so in that sense, the oil would flow 'backwards'.

Either no hole or a larger pushrod/cup reduces the psi on the oil film.

At least they were sharp enough to ask about your spring pressures and connect it with past problems.
 
nm9stheham said:
A guess as to why:

It's becoming a marginally small cup and ball for the approx 900-1000 lbs of peak pressure on them (and even much higher peak loads dynamically at high RPM's). The psi on the oil film in that small area gets pretty high, and a hole within that small contact area takes away even more of that contact area, which results in the oil film being penetrated. In that regard, the hole in the pushrod IS a path for the oil to escape from the cup, so in that sense, the oil would flow 'backwards'.

Either no hole or a larger pushrod/cup reduces the psi on the oil film.

At least they were sharp enough to ask about your spring pressures and connect it with past problems.
Click to expand...

That is how I pictured it but then I wondered how all the high HP Chevys survive ?
 
you can go to ford size adjusters and best to have the cup on the adjuster and ball and ball pushrods
the pushrod ball should NOT rub on the ball tip in any case the wear should be a band down from the tip- does that description make sense?
if there was pressure on the tip it would be tremendous
good point on the reliaility of chevy and SBF and all the other oil through the pushrod applications
 
mbaird said:
That is how I pictured it but then I wondered how all the high HP Chevys survive ?
Click to expand...
Well, I guess they survive LOL....I don't really know how susceptible they are to failures there.

More guessing: If all these SBM ball/socket failures were on the driver's side, then maybe it's due to the oil distribution. The SBC has separate direct feeds to each lifter gallery via a deep groove under the rear cam bearing. The SBM has the passenger side at full pressure, but the driver's side lifter gallery is fed via a shallow 'groove' across the #1 main and that restricts flow and drops some pressure. So the driver's side SBM lifter gallery sees lower pressure, unlike the SBC where both lifter galleries see full(er) pressure.

You might help the SBM driver's side lifter gallery pressure by grinding out some of the walls between the 3 passages down to the #1 main, but you still have 2 longs passages for the oil to flow through to reach the driver's side gallery, and it is fed at the very far end of the oiling system, where pressures are naturally going to be lower. The SBC's 2 passages to the galleries are very short, and right off of the feed out of pump. It's just a better designed system in that regard.
 
IQ52 said:
I've just kinda been watching here.

I've run one set of small block BAM lifters, the pin oiling ones, with no lifter bore sleeves. When I first primed the engine I had the intake manifold and rocker covers off to watch the top of the engine oil. I was stunned to see the amount of oil running over the camshaft. It didn't matter where the liter was located in the bore, oil was gushing, completely covering the cam.

But it wasn't coming from around the lifter body, it was coming from the bottom of the lifter, the pin oiling system. Nobody needs that much oil on the cam and running down on the crankshaft.

So I removed the aluminum heads, pulled the lifters and swedged a tube into the lifter body, not the lifter bore, to close off the pin oiling. Ah, much better.

And, when fired, the engine always had good oil pressure. I doubt it would have with that much oil release before, but I don't know for sure, because I didn't fire it before modifying the lifters.

The engine has run that way for years.
Click to expand...
Hey , splain this swedged tube to us >>>>>maybe even draw a pic for us dumber ones.
 
I got the the lifters, cam, heads most everything from Mike. I did nothing to the lifters but install them in the block. The lifters are still in good shape, I plan to use them again after the lifter bores are bushed.
 
IQ52 said:
I've just kinda been watching here.

I've run one set of small block BAM lifters, the pin oiling ones, with no lifter bore sleeves. When I first primed the engine I had the intake manifold and rocker covers off to watch the top of the engine oil. I was stunned to see the amount of oil running over the camshaft. It didn't matter where the liter was located in the bore, oil was gushing, completely covering the cam.

But it wasn't coming from around the lifter body, it was coming from the bottom of the lifter, the pin oiling system. Nobody needs that much oil on the cam and running down on the crankshaft.

So I removed the aluminum heads, pulled the lifters and swedged a tube into the lifter body, not the lifter bore, to close off the pin oiling. Ah, much better.

And, when fired, the engine always had good oil pressure. I doubt it would have with that much oil release before, but I don't know for sure, because I didn't fire it before modifying the lifters.

The engine has run that way for years.
Click to expand...
More info on this please
 
Alex5280 said:
I got the the lifters, cam, heads most everything from Mike. I did nothing to the lifters but install them in the block. The lifters are still in good shape, I plan to use them again after the lifter bores are bushed.
Click to expand...
We are talking to and about the work done by IQ52.
 
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