Would you risk it? What would you do?

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Kendog 170 said:
I have Eddy heads, so I'd have to remove intake and galley cover. I never cared for how the engine sounded from the get-go 8 years ago. Ran great! Always made noise. If it's going to sound like a flat tappet, I'll go flat tappet. I've been told due to the fast closing cam ramps and stainless valves this can happen but don't really know. Don't want to revisit this rabbit hole.
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I have no idea what cam you have, but..... some of the more aggressive Comp hydraulics are well-known for being noisy.
 
replicaracer43 said:
Here is a example, this is a brand new, fresh out of the box elgin hyd lifter. Just took a very light cut, you can see the spherical radius ground on the face is off center. This lifter would have never rotated properly, and would have failed. Not to mention, surface finish looked like it was done with a DA sander

View attachment 1716316935

View attachment 1716316936
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Would you worry about Comp Cams solid lifters? I know they are pre 2005 plus some.
Who would you get new SFT solids from? 440 source and Comp look to be only options
 
340six said:
Would you worry about Comp Cams solid lifters? I know they are pre 2005 plus some.
Who would you get new SFT solids from? 440 source and Comp look to be only options
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hot heads carries lifters and iirc, early hemi and small block interchange

but if you're talking just straight up stock solids, rock has those.
 
340six said:
Would you worry about Comp Cams solid lifters? I know they are pre 2005 plus some.
Who would you get new SFT solids from? 440 source and Comp look to be only options
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I personally shy away from ANYTHING comp makes, but they have a better chance if they are old stock. If I had to buy new solids, I'd probably just spend the money and get them from trend
 
Also, the lifter face machining, seems to be the biggest problem, and it applies to hyd as well as solids
 
gzig5 said:
If either the cam or lifters are machined incorrectly, treating them isn't going to make any difference. They'll still likely fail. Get the parts examined and/or touched up by someone who knows what they are looking for if you aren't capable. Checking lobe taper on a cam is fairly straightforward but finding an improperly ground lifter may not show as easily. Then, if you want the benefits of the cryo treatment, have the known good components treated.
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No one said cryogenic treatment of ANY part will fix garbage.

But it damn sure works and it makes good parts last longer.

That’s from experience and not guessing.
 
33IMP said:
I have no idea what cam you have, but..... some of the more aggressive Comp hydraulics are well-known for being noisy.
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I've heard that the XE cams are both noisy and hard on the valve train but I don't know it as a fact.
 
Dan the man said:
Newbomb, what is cryogenically? I don't mean to highjack the op thread but I've never heard of this process.
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They supposedly discovered this technology during the Apollo Space Program.

The metals on the spacecraft came back from space better structurally than when they were new.

Evidently it’s from taking metal at earth’s ambient temperature that goes into space where I’m told it’s pretty cold. Then on reentry that same metal goes through a point where it gets very hot. Then it goes back to ambient temperature.

When they learned that they went to work trying to duplicate that process without going into space and the cryogenic process was developed.

I can’t remember if everything is dropped to minus 300 degrees but IIRC it’s at least that cold but it’s a process.

I know there is a set rate of cooling, then holding the parts at that temperature for some period of time and then the part is brought back to some temperature and again, IIRC the parts are then heated up at a set rate and then cooled off at a set rate.

It may not be that exact process for every different materiel but that’s a brief, rudimentary explanation of cryogenic treatment of parts.

And it’s not just for automotive stuff. Gun parts…about anything you can think of can be treated.
 
Newbomb Turk said:
No one said cryogenic treatment of ANY part will fix garbage.
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I wasn’t implying that anyone said that. Just clarifying that the process can’t correct junk so make sure it’s not crap before you start.

I like cryo treatment and have seen a lot of benefits for wear resistance in industrial applications as well as recreational.
 
JYHero,
Tells us how you can tell the difference between a lifter that will fail &....one that won't [ Post #11 ]???
Sure, sometimes you can see a problem with the radius or finish, but others look fine....& fail.
 
the cryogenic process causes the molecules to align in a way that makes the object harder, stronger!!
racer brown and oregon both offer lifter tappet referbushing service, like 4 bucks a lifter...
 
Bewy said:
JYHero,
Tells us how you can tell the difference between a lifter that will fail &....one that won't [ Post #11 ]???
Sure, sometimes you can see a problem with the radius or finish, but others look fine....& fail.
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You put it upside down on a flat surface and run it underneath a dial indicator and measure the crown.
 
Scody21 said:
Liquid Nitrogen…. There is a company in SoCal also. Very interesting talking with the owner…
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Is that the company that does REM polishing too??

I looked into them. I think if I were treating a solid roller core I'd send it somewhere they could REM polish and cryogenically treat it too.
 
Mean416 said:
You put it upside down on a flat surface and run it underneath a dial indicator and measure the crown.
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Or in a lathe and run the indicator across and around the face.

Its not a hard thing to do. And probably should be done to every lifter before its used.

Most of the failures I've seen weren't from metallurgy. It was garbage machining.
 
Post #39. That doesn't tell you the metal hardness, which is the other cause of lifter failure. Soft metal.
 
Bewy said:
JYHero,
Tells us how you can tell the difference between a lifter that will fail &....one that won't [ Post #11 ]???
Sure, sometimes you can see a problem with the radius or finish, but others look fine....& fail.
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I didn't see where he said anything like that. You putin words in his mouth, kamala?
 
33IMP said:
I have no idea what cam you have, but..... some of the more aggressive Comp hydraulics are well-known for being noisy.
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That's the one. I only put up with because the car runs so good. Now that I see an issue I'd just assume go solid. Always drove me OCD crazy with the noise. lol I've been considering this cam but I need to find my cam card because I can't remember the exact specs. but would like to be close.
https://www.hughesengines.com/Index...&level2=RmxhdCBUYXBwZXQsIFNvbGlk&partid=30278

DODGE Howards Cams 91715 Howards Cams Performance Mechanical Lifters | Summit Racing
 
dirty white boy said:
the cryogenic process causes the molecules to align in a way that makes the object harder, stronger!!
racer brown and oregon both offer lifter tappet referbushing service, like 4 bucks a lifter...
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not so on the molecules , it does do something to the metal , and (I cant remember what exactly) but not to the molecules , I did a bunch of researching on it back when I built my 505 , and had the block and mains cryod , and they don't have to heat the stuff after pulling it out of the freezer , they brought it down slowly to actual temps ...
And a machinist cant tell if its been done or not !
 
famous bob said:
not so on the molecules , it does do something to the metal , and (I cant remember what exactly) but not to the molecules , I did a bunch of researching on it back when I built my 505 , and had the block and mains cryod , and they don't have to heat the stuff after pulling it out of the freezer , they brought it down slowly to actual temps ...
And a machinist cant tell if its been done or not !
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Right off the 300 Below web site.

Materials Impacted​

Steel, Iron, Copper, Aluminum, Carbide, and some Polymers are all able to benefit from our cryogenic tempering process. If we add an optional heat treatment after our freezing process, we have termed this “cryogenic tempering” because of the additional benefit. Since all changes to metals take place on the quench, our cryogenic treatment process is a natural extension of the heat treatment process that your parts are normally subjected to.

And...

Reduce Metal Stress and Fatigue​

We freeze at-risk metals to -300°F, causing structural changes at the molecular level to make your wearable parts more resilient. This helps fight corrosion, breakage, and wear – reducing unnecessary stress on your metal parts.

So like I said, they can do a heat treat option.

And it changes molecular structure.
 
RRR,
Read post #11. JYH claims he doesn't use crap[py] lifters. n post #36, I asked how he could tell the difference: between ones that would fail [ crappy lifters ]...& ones that would not [ non-crappy].
 
Newbomb Turk said:
Right off the 300 Below web site.

Materials Impacted​

Steel, Iron, Copper, Aluminum, Carbide, and some Polymers are all able to benefit from our cryogenic tempering process. If we add an optional heat treatment after our freezing process, we have termed this “cryogenic tempering” because of the additional benefit. Since all changes to metals take place on the quench, our cryogenic treatment process is a natural extension of the heat treatment process that your parts are normally subjected to.

And...

Reduce Metal Stress and Fatigue​

We freeze at-risk metals to -300°F, causing structural changes at the molecular level to make your wearable parts more resilient. This helps fight corrosion, breakage, and wear – reducing unnecessary stress on your metal parts.

So like I said, they can do a heat treat option.

And it changes molecular structure.
Click to expand...

According to N A S A it doesn't , but does change something , I cant remember , it was some tem I`d never heard before .
Sound like that info is for selling purposes to me , definitely not off of the NASA info I found , back then ...
 
famous bob said:
According to N A S A it doesn't , but does change something , I cant remember , it was some tem I`d never heard before .
Sound like that info is for selling purposes to me , definitely not off of the NASA info I found , back then ...
Click to expand...

Just google cryogenic treatment of metal parts.

It changes the molecular structure of the metal.
 
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