I never thought of the "offset" until I tried the extension...lol didnt take long to realize bad ju-ju lol. Especially with air power .
X-Head Porting....
- Thread starter DentalDart
- Start date
-
Thats a lot of sanding rolls! You must do a lot of these lol
Yes I have more than a lifetime or 5 for me lol. I bought them at an auction....I didnt realize I bought so many lol. Send me a pm if interested.
Can you explain the bit size to me? Like the width and length of the cutting surface is 1/2 long - 3/8in width?
I'm not having much success with these burs and this die grinder. I actually prefer doing it with my hand drill because its variable speed. The bits jump to much, are a little to big , and catch to much; at least they have been for me...
Here's where I ended. I'm happy with everything EXCEPT the spots I can't reach and the part where the valve goes through. I can't reach some spots and when I start getting in there the burs kept catching, thats how I ended up with a broken bit; it barely caught, jumped and pow. The bent bit is what happened right when I turned my die grinder on, the bit just bent... well maybe ill get a dremel and do it with some smaller burs and slower speeds..
512Stroker
We are all here because we are not all there.
512Stroker
We are all here because we are not all there.
Sorry Doc but I think you have a long way to go.
Those ports look like the back side of a cast iron Moose. LOL
In reality I doubt I could do any better. LOL
Those ports look like the back side of a cast iron Moose. LOL
In reality I doubt I could do any better. LOL
Phreakish
Well-Known Member
Dremels don't have the power you'll want for porting. A variable speed controller (foot pedal, if possible) for a die grinder is the way to go. Then use stones/paper. If you want burrs, get some finer toothed ones to try, but carbide ones like to blow up or chip if you overload them or if they jump. High-speed steel (HSS) won't chip as easy, but will wear faster if you overheat them.
I'd stick with paper and stones. More forgiving.
I'd stick with paper and stones. More forgiving.
Dremels and rotary tools can be variable speed from 5-30k rpms.
I agree on the sanding stones and paper though might be easier. Will probably take longer but be more controllable.
I agree on the sanding stones and paper though might be easier. Will probably take longer but be more controllable.
Thats a good idea! Shoot by the time I'm half *** good at doing this... I won't want to do it on the Xheads haha.
Phreakish
Well-Known Member
The hf grinder will make faster work. Those little dremels are great, but not for hogging on cast iron - they get hot, uncomfortable, and stall out with little to no pressure.
The bigger one will power through a decent amount of pressure and the on-the-fly control will be a godsend.
The bigger one will power through a decent amount of pressure and the on-the-fly control will be a godsend.
I guess I should have gotten the hanging one from the start... to late now...
yellow rose
Overnight Sensation
When you bend a 6 inch shank like that you have too much speed. When you break a carbide burr like that it’s either turning too fast or it’s too big to fit where you are trying to make it fit and it’s chattering or both.
I think I have 3 burrs that are shorter than 6 inches. Even with an air grinder, those short shank burrs are pretty much worthless. Your hands and the grinder is too close to the work. It makes it harder to see what you are doing.
You have to get some way to slow the grinder down. To clean up the guide area (which if I’m porting I do it and charge like hell for it because that big guide hanging in the port is a flow killer among other things) you’ll need smaller diameter burrs with 6 inch shanks so you can get in there and see what you are doing.
3/8 diameter is about the biggest burr you can get in there and not fight it. 1/4 inch is probably better.
It takes a HUGE amount of time to narrow the guide boss. You need to use a small burr to start and then get bigger.
I should have taken some pictures of my burrs tonight. You’d be surprised how few I use.
I think I have 3 burrs that are shorter than 6 inches. Even with an air grinder, those short shank burrs are pretty much worthless. Your hands and the grinder is too close to the work. It makes it harder to see what you are doing.
You have to get some way to slow the grinder down. To clean up the guide area (which if I’m porting I do it and charge like hell for it because that big guide hanging in the port is a flow killer among other things) you’ll need smaller diameter burrs with 6 inch shanks so you can get in there and see what you are doing.
3/8 diameter is about the biggest burr you can get in there and not fight it. 1/4 inch is probably better.
It takes a HUGE amount of time to narrow the guide boss. You need to use a small burr to start and then get bigger.
I should have taken some pictures of my burrs tonight. You’d be surprised how few I use.
1/4 inch width or length? I bet a smaller round burr would be decent in the areas around the guide boss.
yellow rose
Overnight Sensation
Both. The length adds to the cutting edge. You don’t want to cut with both sides of the burr. Think about how the burr is ground. If you put the burr against two surfaces, it’s on a climb cut on one side of the burr.
So as you work the burr, it’s trying to go down in between the guide and the side of the port, and it’s trying to climb out from between the guide and the side of the port.
So you need to determine how much clearance you have for the burr and start with a smaller burr and work your way up to bigger burrs.
I personally do not like tree shapes or cylinders and I don’t like long burrs. The more cutting area you have, the harder it is to control.
I can tell by the corner radius you leave your burrs are too big for how I finish a port. A radius like that works if the port has enough cross section to feed the valve you are using. When the valve is already too big for the port, a big corner radius will kill power.
Look at the W2 intake port. It has an oval shape, but the cross section is much larger than any production port. And, the W2 port is way too small for 340 inches at 8000 RPM or more, or if you burn alcohol. You have to consider fuel used when porting. Increase the displacement and the cross section has to increase.
Just some things to consider as you learn to port. There is much more to it than making the holes bigger. Shape is everything, flow is secondary at best.
I’ll take some pictures of the few burrs I use tomorrow. I went through many burrs before I settled on what burr made the shape I wanted as my eyes see the surfaces.
I have friends that port, and port well. We compare burrs every now and then. We have almost no burrs in common, but they can get the same shapes I do. Their eyes see the shapes differently than mine, so they use a different burr to get that shape.
I say that only to let you know what burrs I use (or anyone else uses) may not work for you. You just have to try different burrs to get the shapes you want as your eyes see them.
This is my advice as well.
This is good advice for sure. X-heads don't sell for enough to buy SM's but after I get through 16 ports on 1 set of heads... I'll probably be done with school and be able to afford SM heads lol.
ChargedDart75
Well-Known Member
Are you sure? I'm not being smart asking this. I would think there would be somebody that would have to have those X heads. They seem to be in pretty high demand still. You might pick up a used set of heads for whatever you get out of the X heads too.
There's a pair of bare xheads for sale for 400 right now another pair sold for 750. I guess you could get the non CNC heads for about 800 before shipping, and CNC are about 1500.
ChargedDart75
Well-Known Member
I honestly think you could get at least 1,200-1,500 bucks for the X heads, and maybe more depending on how fresh they are. Speedmaster's are 1,800. I know you've got expenses coming, up, but you also aren't ready to port or remove the X heads. Just food for thought. I also don't think a fairly stock 360 will tap them out in their stock form.
Wow I never figured Xheads were that much lol.
I agree, definitely not ready to pull the xheads to mess with them ... im going to go buy a smaller burr and try that out on the next port...
"That's a good idea! Shoot by the time I'm half *** good at doing this... I won't want to do it on the X heads haha."
That's what we were trying to tell you Doc. LMAO
That's what we were trying to tell you Doc. LMAO
ChargedDart75
Well-Known Member
That's just a guess. I've seen them listed at 2,500 bucks, but it's really worth what somebody will pay. I'm sure there are guys on here that can give more real world figures that I can. I have cleaned up a few heads with no real porting to speak of, and it took me several hours per head just to do that. I tried to take my time, keep the speed even and not wide open, and move smoothly.
-
