New LED tail lights 69 Cuda

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cudaspaz said:
garsh dang slant six Dan, I've seen Mercedes Benz copywrite lawyers and Pitt bulls less aggressive than you were to Mr. spaghetti......holy crap!
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You remind me of a discussion over on Google+ (which is like Fecebook only less crappy). Someone posted a pic of a handwritten sign someone at his work taped to the wall above the toilet, which read as follows:

STOP urinating on the floor and toilet seat! Is this how you live at home?! If your squirt gun is that little maybe you should squat to pee. Or maybe try lifting the lid! If you don't want to touch it, use your foot.

There were many comments in the resulting thread. One guy objected to the sign. Said it was insulting and needless and made him want to piss all over the bathroom, then find and piss all over whoever wrote the sign. This shoot-the-messenger guy's an adult, but obviously not a grownup. I'm betting whoever has to touch and clean up some slob's piss every damn day -- a bigger insult than any mean ol' sign, don'tchya think? -- probably doesn't consider the sign needless.

It's like a little kid whining when you take away the matches he's playing with. He doesn't understand the very real dangers involved; he's just peeved 'cause you spoiled their fun. Likewise, Mr. Spaghetti has demonstrated that he is ignorant of the legally mandatory technical requirements his products must fulfill, and of his certification responsibilities (and liability) under the law. He has also demonstrated that he has no interest in those subjects, 'cause the cash register's ringing. In my view, that makes him almost like the little kid playing with matches, but not quite exactly alike; he's also like the how-dare-you-put-up-a-sign-telling-me-to-piss-in-the-damn-toilet guy in that he's old enough to know better, but chooses anyhow to behave like the little kid playing with matches.

The really pathetic thing about it is that doing it right takes just about the same amount of effort and time as doing it wrong or cutting corners and shirking responsibility, and doing it wrong sooner or later costs a whole hell of a lot more -- in dollars and human lives.

So: No. I'm not backin' down, I'm not changing my tone, and I'm not sorry. Don't like it? Don't read my posts. I'm right, he's wrong, full stop.
 
slantsixdan said:
You remind me of a discussion over on Google+ (which is like Fecebook only less crappy). Someone posted a pic of a handwritten sign someone at his work taped to the wall above the toilet, which read as follows:

STOP urinating on the floor and toilet seat! Is this how you live at home?! If your squirt gun is that little maybe you should squat to pee. Or maybe try lifting the lid! If you don't want to touch it, use your foot.

There were many comments in the resulting thread. One guy objected to the sign. Said it was insulting and needless and made him want to piss all over the bathroom, then find and piss all over whoever wrote the sign. This shoot-the-messenger guy's an adult, but obviously not a grownup. I'm betting whoever has to touch and clean up some slob's piss every damn day -- a bigger insult than any mean ol' sign, don'tchya think? -- probably doesn't consider the sign needless.

It's like a little kid whining when you take away the matches he's playing with. He doesn't understand the very real dangers involved; he's just peeved 'cause you spoiled their fun. Likewise, Mr. Spaghetti has demonstrated that he is ignorant of the legally mandatory technical requirements his products must fulfill, and of his certification responsibilities (and liability) under the law. He has also demonstrated that he has no interest in those subjects, 'cause the cash register's ringing. In my view, that makes him almost like the little kid playing with matches, but not quite exactly alike; he's also like the how-dare-you-put-up-a-sign-telling-me-to-piss-in-the-damn-toilet guy in that he's old enough to know better, but chooses anyhow to behave like the little kid playing with matches.

The really pathetic thing about it is that doing it right takes just about the same amount of effort and time as doing it wrong or cutting corners and shirking responsibility, and doing it wrong sooner or later costs a whole hell of a lot more -- in dollars and human lives.

So: No. I'm not backin' down, I'm not changing my tone, and I'm not sorry. Don't like it? Don't read my posts. I'm right, he's wrong, full stop.
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Dan, it's Friday.....lol.
Drink a beer and forget about it.

My comments were lighthearted and I was hoping you would have picked up on that an maybe laugh about it.....I must have forgot the lol at the end...whoops.

Well, I'm gonna have a beer for ya......:hello1:

Take it easy, this ain't Moparts, we cool, we cool.
 
Normally I sit back and read threads like this but I feel I have to voice my opinion. We have all read ssdan's statements many times and basically take them for the truth.Now comes a fabulous (or so we think) product and we seem to choose to look the other. When these lights I could only think of the time when I would get a set for my car. Having read the comments from both sides it is clear to me that Mr. Spaghetti really has not answered ssdan's questions,but instead has skirted around them.Right is right and wrong is wrong and Mr.Spaghetti is wrong. I hate the fact that he is a hard working individual who is only doing the best he can to sell(and improve ) his product only to find out it is not up to code(spec),whatever.Yes ,dan seems brutal,but he is only doing his job(one he obviously knows how to do)so I think we need to heed his words. I don't for 1 minute think that dan would ever steer us wrong or allow anything to snaek through his radar that would not be in our best interest.I'm done!
 
I've read this whole thread and, Wow, just wow!

We are indeed fortunate to have Dan's experience in the very specific field of automotive safety lighting and it's pretty foolish to ignore his advice.

In my line of work, (railway signals), we have recently undergone the introduction of LED lighting. This certainly has not been as easy as replacing the bulb as the entire lens structure must be replaced to ensure proper visibility of highly safety critical signals, but the end result has been a far superior product both in terms of visibility and reliability.

As to these LED tail lights, the videos look real good and the product may be compliant with all regulation already. Why not certify and put everyone's mind at ease? Dan is correct as usual. I, for one will pay a little extra for a compliant product.
 
mopardude318 said:
hmm...wonder if they can come up with a clear lens...lol doubt it....i forgot these are just circuit boards that go behind the factory lens..
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I wonder if the white backup portion of the 68 barracuda lenses would let enough amber show through for turn signals. A little mixing of the colors and a slight change in the wiring may make a cool addition.
 
Let me provide some background information for Spaghetti Engineering Corp. to ease everyone. We have mechanical, electrical, and computer engineers, all car guys with backgrounds from automotive powertrain to artificial intelligence. From complex suspension control systems to something as simple as LED light panels we thrive on designing the best possible products that we think up. We get nothing but satisfaction and kind words from actual customers who use our products. Products that we believe in so much that we put in our own vehicles and are proud to do so. As our LED kits start to spread through the Mopar crowd I would ask that you listen to what they have to say about them. I know they will be as pleased with their function and reliably as many already are.
And yes we will “certify” our lights this summer with the “independent third party”.
Also, if you have a tail light request for a model we don’t currently produce, email us at info@digi-tails.com so we may keep a count.
 
Seb,if you want I can send you a set of rear tail lights to do a test fit or a set up to see how they fit,as my car uses the same tail lights as newports and new yorkers,and might even fit some other cars.Even post your ad over on (CBODYDRYDOCK) for even more buyers.Its amazing that some ***** about you building a better wheel for the world to use,but tell you you can,t roll it down the hill until its certified,when they should help you.As soon as some one makes a better wheel,some one is there to crush it,mrmopartech
 
SebastianSpaghetti said:
something as simple as LED light panels
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Y'still don't get it. They're not as "simple" as you'd prefer to think they are. Not when they're going on cars.

We get nothing but satisfaction and kind words from actual customers
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I'm sure of that. Lots of people give lots of rave reviews to lots of products they think are cool and neato and excellent, regardless of the actual, objective safety performance or il/legality of the product. Testimonials, no matter how numerous or enthusiastic, don't substitute for safety certification.

And yes we will “certify” our lights this summer with the “independent third party”.
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I'm not "sure" why you put "quotation marks" around "words" like "certify" and "phrases" like "independent third party" as if they "don't" really "exist" and are just something "stupid" made up to hassle "you". Nevertheless, good for you for moving towards taking some responsibility. Better late than never! Each individual product you offer has to undergo its own certification tests; you can't apply the certification from one product to another. But you don't have to meet the photometric standards required for today's cars, just the ones in effect when the latest-model car was built that any given product fits, plus the requirements that apply to all LED automotive lamps. [http://www.calcoast-itl.com]CalCoast[/url] or whatever other accredited lab you choose will be able to fill you in on all the details; all you have to tell them is what functions each product performs and what vehicles it fits.

I sincerely hope each of your products passes all the required tests, not only because that'll mean they're as good and as safe as you believe them to be, not only because then they'll be legal to use on public roadways, not only because it'll mean more options for people trying to improve their cars, but also because it'll mean you won't have to deal with any pesky recalls. But I'm not entirely optimistic on that last point; the chasing-sequence arrangement of your Camaro taillamps, for example, is fun but isn't compliant.
 
Mrmopartech said:
amazing that some ***** about you building a better wheel for the world to use,but tell you you can,t roll it down the hill until its certified,when they should help you.
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If that's what you take away from my comments, you're not reading or thinking very carefully.
 
slantsixdan said:
Y'still don't get it. They're not as "simple" as you'd prefer to think they are. Not when they're going on cars.



I'm sure of that. Lots of people give lots of rave reviews to lots of products they think are cool and neato and excellent, regardless of the actual, objective safety performance or il/legality of the product. Testimonials, no matter how numerous or enthusiastic, don't substitute for safety certification.



I'm not "sure" why you put "quotation marks" around "words" like "certify" and "phrases" like "independent third party" as if they "don't" really "exist" and are just something "stupid" made up to hassle "you". Nevertheless, good for you for moving towards taking some responsibility. Better late than never! Each individual product you offer has to undergo its own certification tests; you can't apply the certification from one product to another. But you don't have to meet the photometric standards required for today's cars, just the ones in effect when the latest-model car was built that any given product fits, plus the requirements that apply to all LED automotive lamps. [http://www.calcoast-itl.com]CalCoast[/url] or whatever other accredited lab you choose will be able to fill you in on all the details; all you have to tell them is what functions each product performs and what vehicles it fits.

I sincerely hope each of your products passes all the required tests, not only because that'll mean they're as good and as safe as you believe them to be, not only because then they'll be legal to use on public roadways, not only because it'll mean more options for people trying to improve their cars, but also because it'll mean you won't have to deal with any pesky recalls. But I'm not entirely optimistic on that last point; the chasing-sequence arrangement of your Camaro taillamps, for example, is fun but isn't compliant.
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1 With respect to complex control systems, then yes LED panels are relatively simple.
2 With consumers stringent as you, I am pretty sure if someone is dissatisfied with the function of a light I would hear about it. These lights usually go on guys most prized possessions. People demand quality.
3 I put “certify” in quotes because they are doing just that. They are certifying that they meet the certifications. You or I can certify a product, and if anyone will listen, then our word is worth something.
4 I put “independent third party” because they are just that. They are not you, they are not me, and they are not the government. I am aware of Calcoast, as they are the only testing site in North America that I know of that performs the certs that pertain to me.
5 Once again the sequence array flows steady from on to off just like an incandescent bulb would. In fact, our sequence array still comes on faster than an incandescent bulb, all falling within the requirements. Also if you don’t like the sequence array feature, our LED panels have a slide switch that turns them back to normal mode.

1.
 
I read most of this. I am glad that Spaghetti Engineering is doing this and I am sure they will get all their cert.s in order. I am more concerned with all the non-certified products out there and poorly designed parts that degrade after their initial cert. You can buy 1157 LED bulbs on ebay that aren't near bright enough for use as brake lights. How many 1990+ cars have you seen in parking lots with plastic lenses so hazed that the headlights barely work? The DOT or such signed off on those when new.
 
SebastianSpaghetti said:
With consumers stringent as you, I am pretty sure if someone is dissatisfied with the function of a light I would hear about it.
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And I'm sure you wouldn't. Subjective impressions of performance don't cut it for determining the safety performance of an automotive lamp. It's very easy to create a lamp that will get two-thumbs-up feedback from whoever installs it, that in fact does not perform safely. Even if you have the best of intent!

I put “certify” in quotes because they are doing just that. They are certifying that they meet the certifications. You or I can certify a product, and if anyone will listen, then our word is worth something.
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Sure. And as long as there's substance behind the certification -- a "pass" result on all the applicable tests done correctly by a properly-equipped lab -- then it's legally and technically airtight against any argument that the product is inadequate or unsafe. The Chinese and Indian aftermarket car light companies (TYC, Depo, Autopal, etc.) often issue "certifications" that have all the right words, but no substance behind them. Faked test results (or none at all), etc.

I understand your reasoning about how the chase/sequential light-up is similar to an incandescent lamp's rise time, but the safety standards don't see it your way.
 
slantsixdan said:
The Chinese and Indian aftermarket car light companies (TYC, Depo, Autopal, etc.) often issue "certifications" that have all the right words, but no substance behind them. Faked test results (or none at all), etc.
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Interesting that Depo, (Taiwanese manufacturer), claims to meet FMVSS 108.

If they can do it, I'm sure we can match that on a domestic product.

Here's a label from a taillight I just changed on my Ranger.

View attachment Taillight (Medium).jpg
 
I hope you sell a ton of them here Mr. Spaghetti.

Looks like they will be hot sellers to people that want a cool and bright and better product than stock.

I will definitely be buying a set from you, and they should compliment my HID headlights very well.
 
Yes Dan is right, but the rule is wrong. Common sense should be able to apply that we don't need another stupid government certification and allowance from the king that we can replace the lights in the back of our 40 year old cars. You give away your liberty when you even entertain that such a folly of allowance from the federal government is necessary. Could somebody please point out the article in the constitution that prohibits an individual from changing the rear bulbs on his 67 Barracuda to freaking elf made laser beam lava lamps if he wants? The fear of litigation is equally disturbing. trust me lawyers and insurance companies will find a way no matter how many tests you think you have done. A good lawyer would be able to put you at cause for driving a 40 year old car even if the thing was 100% factory. It's the job of the citizen jurors to use a little common sense. That and we need torte reform bad to discourage silly lawsuits in the first place!
So Dan is right, but God bless you Sebastian for supplying a product people want regardless of what some Washington yahoo says is OK.
 
Hersbird said:
Yes Dan is right, but the rule is wrong.
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No, the rule is right. Vehicle safety equipment has to work according to objective technical prescriptions based on what level of every different aspect of performance is required to do an adequate job. Not according to your (or my, or some other guy's) idea of what "common sense" means or subjective impression of what "good enough" is. The reason why it has to be this way is because vehicle lighting components (and brakes, and tires, and just about every other safety-related vehicle component, system, and feature) affect not just the owner of the car but everyone sharing the road with the car. If I decide my subjective opinion (or "common sense") is a good enough basis for deciding the aftermarket lights I put on my car are good enough, but they do not provide at least the minimum objective performance necssary to do their job, it can and eventually will cause a crash involving people other than myself, and property other than my own. The same applies if I decide to manufacture and sell lights that look cool and don't provide the minimum necessary performance, but do look "good enough" to me and maybe to my customers who value "looks cool" more than "works well". This isn't government overreach, or overregulation, or anything like that. This is utterly basic to the nature of safety-related vehicle equipment.

Your invocation of the Constitution is faulty; you do a lot of things every day that the Constitution doesn't say you can do. Unless you are prepared to stop doing all of them, your argument about the Constitution falls flat on its face and pukes its guts on the dusty ground.
 
Okay I am getting sick and tired of this. If someone here is qualified to do the test and put this to rest, I will send you my light's and you test them.
 
Bakaruda said:
Okay I am getting sick and tired of this. If someone here is qualified to do the test and put this to rest, I will send you my light's and you test them.
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Anyone with time,the ability to read, and build test equipment can accomplish this. We have build various testing tools that we feel satisfys all guidlines. However, as I stated before without high credibility you will always have doubters as to the validity of my testing vs. someone else's.
 
Now your wrong Dan. If the 67 taillights aren't good enough to meet todays standards then your argument pukes itself up on the ground. By your own standards its a safety issue not for you but the safety of those around you. By your logic every car on the road would have to meet current safety standards not just those in effect when built. You are right about so many things being unconstitutional but that doesn't make them all right because the constitution has been trampled on.
 
I'm thinking I'm sticking with slantsixdan on this one. In the meantime I'll stick with the original single bulb design. It's simple, effective, easy to maintain and most importantly, it's TESTED!
 
The constitution isn't there to tell you want you can't do its there to tell you what the government can't do to you.
 
Dan, you're such a killjoy. Jonny's bitchin'-lookin' taillights are WAY more important than the life of the guy that approaches him from behind on a dark and stormy night, not to mention his toddler in the back seat. ALL of Jonny's friends says they look really keen and are WAY better than stock, no matter what some stupid machine might say.

Some of the comments in this thread DISGUST me, and make me ashamed to be in this hobby. Lights are a damned SAFETY device, guys, not a custom paint job! Yeah, we're all on the same side when it comes to inferior welds on tube k-members, but when it comes to lighting, as long as it looks good...

The selfish stupidity of so many people who irresponsibly modify their cars makes me frightened to take my children ANYWHERE on public roads these days. If any of my friends or loved ones are ever hurt or killed just so some idiot can have his "vision" of a cool-lookin' ride, I'll likely spend the rest of my life in jail for what I'll do to perpetrator. That goes for dangerous front OR rear lighting, tires too skinny for the mass of the car, top-heavy trucks jacked sky-high, and any number of illegal modifications that threaten the people around them.

A lot of you guys sound like smokers. "It's my body, and I have the right to pollute it if I want to." Yeah, you do. But you DON'T have the right to endanger the lives of those around you with your sidestream smoke. If you want illegal taillights, then buy 'em. But keep your car in your garage or driveway. "The Evil Government" is not some nebulous villain trying to take away your rights, it's representing ME, and trying to keep us all safe. It ain't perfect, but I trust it better than most folks I drive alongside on my way to work every day.

For the record, I LOVE modifying my car, and I LOVE LED taillights. I also hope that these and Spaghetti's other products pass certification, and that I have legal LED taillight options for ALL of my cars in the future. But I could absolutely CARE LESS about the opinions of a million "satisfied Spaghetti customers" if the taillights are not not properly certified by someone who didn't (a)buy them or (b)sell them. Because, unlike a lot of so-called "enthusiasts", I seem value human life above how many people I can impress with my frickin' car.

There are a LOT of great guys in this hobby. This thread reminds me how many irresponsible morons there are, too. I'd like to think that the good guys outnumber the idiots, but sometimes I wonder.
 
If your telling me that the standard 1157 bulb is better then this LED panel then you must be blind. Have any of you ever purchased a set of Digi-Tails? A lot of people on the internet like to talk about products as if they actually used them before. Well I have and a blind man could see that these lights are legit.

If you don't want to believe me that's ok. Buy the lights. If your not happy then just send them back.
 
Without all the sarcasm and technical requirements taillights are a major safety component. It is impossible to just look at them and say they are better. Remember that there is a huge difference between standing directly behind the car looking at them and seeing them while driving down the road. These lights need to be seen from many different angles. Think of the number of different angles that are involved. You have traffic behind you that can range from a lowrider to a minivan to a maxi van maybe a 4X4 truck or even a semi. The lights need to be clearly seen from all of these different positions. Also these vehicles may not be directly behind you. They could be parked at the curb or in the lane beside you. They need to be able to clearly see these lights as well. Consider also pedestrians of different heights and ages that need to be aware of whether you are turning, stopping etc. These are the reasons for the regulations. I am seriously interested in a set of these taillights for my 69 Dart but I would like to know that by using them I am not endangering the safety of others.
~Michael
 
Dartman1969 said:
Without all the sarcasm and technical requirements taillights are a major safety component. It is impossible to just look at them and say they are better. Remember that there is a huge difference between standing directly behind the car looking at them and seeing them while driving down the road. These lights need to be seen from many different angles. Think of the number of different angles that are involved. You have traffic behind you that can range from a lowrider to a minivan to a maxi van maybe a 4X4 truck or even a semi. The lights need to be clearly seen from all of these different positions. Also these vehicles may not be directly behind you. They could be parked at the curb or in the lane beside you. They need to be able to clearly see these lights as well. Consider also pedestrians of different heights and ages that need to be aware of whether you are turning, stopping etc. These are the reasons for the regulations. I am seriously interested in a set of these taillights for my 69 Dart but I would like to know that by using them I am not endangering the safety of others.
~Michael
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DIGI-TAILS LEDs have a 120 degree viewing angle. The 69 Dart panels each have 56 LEDs. I have spoken about all other concerns in previous posts. Again, as for the lights, seeing is believing. Anyone may gladly email, message, phone, or chat with us at various shows. Our company is well versed in light design and we have engineers and techs to answer your questions.
I will, however, add yet more notes of safety, if you are ever to be parked with your emergency flashers on the low power draw of LEDs will outlast the higher power draw of incandescent bulbs. Also these LED panels are much more consistent with having a bright output when vehicle voltage is low or surging over an incandescent bulb. Along with the obvious light output benefits, there are also many other hidden safety features inherent with these LED panels.
 

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