1/4 mile times

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hamesdart

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ok so i have made about 7 total passes on the car and here is the build.
1969 dodge dart
-ENGINE
1968 440 hp, 10-1 comp, 440 source alum heads , 509 lift cam
holley 750 , holley elect fuel pump, holley street dominator intake
msd 6a ignition, msd billit distributer, ss blaster coil ,high volume oil pan/pump
-TRANS
727 , reverse manuel valve body , 2800 stall
-REAREND
8-3/4
3.91 w/suregrip posi
SUSPENSION
super stock springs
koni adjustable shocks in rear
comp 90-10 adjustables up front

Ok now heres the thing my times are killing me
last year without the alum heads and intake change and fiberglass bumper it ran the best of
60'ft = 2.003 , 1/8 = 8.29 , 1/4 12.82 @ 107.74 and rand consistant around there a few times...
This weekend after the new parts and work done to the car alum heads, fiberglass bumper, new intake and my beutiful paint job haha it ran slower... even though we had absolutly no time to tune the car in or even set the timeing we ran it as is and got the following after 4 passes.
1/4 = 13.11/13.17/13.32 @108.93/@109.28/@105.95
60'ft times were 2.001/2.026/2.028
so my mph went up a little bit but seems like my 60'ft times are just killing me, but can someone let me know what this is telling me about the car....
The car just isnt launching hard its still very doggish off the line and just dosnt jump it kinda picks up and goes haha and i still think i need more like a 4:11 gear since i seem to have some left at the top of the track.
 
You've got some very good mph's. See your 60' times are about the same before mods. With the 2800 stall and probably bringing your powerband up in rpm's a little after the head swap you might be right about needing a 4.11. Went from a 3.91 to a 3.55 in my cuda for better drivability & she started stumbling out of hole. Put in rhodes lifters to drop my powerband a little & it solved prob.

Oldschoolcuda
 
You're at least ~.30 off on what that engine should 60'. The MPH is mid 12's.

The engine needs more converter and work on the suspension, front and rear to get it to hook.
 
I would checked your timing to make sure its not to far advanced. An Aluminum head big block motors runs better with only around 34 degrees instead of 38. We tried this on the dyno and my torque and Hp were higher. I would try this and see what happens on the track. Nows the time to do only one change at a time and see if it helps.
i would also check to make sure you getting wide open throttle and that your fuel pressure is around 6 PSI.
 
well yes, the car isnt spinning off the line, i guess what im saying is its just not jumping off the line, and i have always debated the 4:11's anyway because i can put up with a less streetable car then most people and this wouldnt really put me out at all as far as driving to car shows or weekends around town. but even before the swap people said it should have been mid 12's and now with my new heads and intake and fiberglass parts and weight savings in the front end i expected much more...
Timing and tuning was a big issuse as well since i didnt do any of it,,, we ran out of time and workd on the car until 1 in the morning raceday,, got 2 hours sleep and drove out there so it is what it is, but i was thinking getting my pinion snubber in and cut down since it wouldnt fit as is when i bought it, not enough clearence and get my subframe connectors in and maby 4.11s
Then it still uses the stock gas tank and lines up until the fuel pump and then goes to bigger fuel lines which is kinda pointless.
So i was thinking the following.
Gears, Fuel cell with big line all the way down,Frame connectors & snubber, Some actual tuning,
As far as converter.. well i am going to hold off as long as i can due to cost.. but it is a very very nice tci converter like $2000 and is suppost to be a 2800-3000 stall but i never ran a tach to see what it was actually flashing at.
 
3 things you must do….

Tune it..… All of this is pointless if you have not tuned the car.

Get sub-frame connecters….. These are mandatory in any high power A-Body and will make even a /6 a better car.

Get a snubber…. A snubber is a very important part when running a stockish rear suspension.


Seriously…. You are putting the cart before the horse with your mods…. Fiberglass parts? Thinking about a gear change and fuel cell?

Get what you have, working first.


Sorry I'm so blunt….. But you know some of the things that are wrong yet you go after other things…..


It's like putting in a new radio because your doors won't lock…. Then asking why the radio swap didn't fix your door locks....
 
Converters cost money, but when they are right, it's like magic. IMHO, it's the number one thing people don't want to spend money on, but should.

That cam is not very torquey and soft below about 3800 or so. It's lugging through the converter to get to the power band.
 
Pay for a good chassis dyno tune,

Set up a Cal-trac suspension set up, for the price they are WELL worth it and you'll never look back.

Sub frame connectors.... always a great idea.

It's just money right? :-D

That car should be running an easy low 12, if not high 11 IMHO.

That converter should be fine with that set up. I wouldn't do a fuel cell either. Sounds like you got "good" parts to make a quick car, but your set up is waayyyy far off. And 4:10's should work great as well.
 
to start. Do not spend 2k on a verter. I had a custon built 9in stalling near 5k that is bullet proof that only cost me 950. If you want to change your gears post your specs (tire height, spool/grip/ open, 1/4 trap RPM, track/ street %, ect...)
what size is you fuel line now? i dont think you need a bigger line.
If you want to dump money i think a new 400 dollar verter with more stall and a bigger cam with near 550 to 575 lift with a low durration would help. But toon what you have with whats left of the season the make small changes in the off season.
 
well yes... the reason i am going bigger fuel line and a fuel cell is one-ensure im getting good fuel... im going from small to big fuel line with a rusted old stock tank and this is not only a restore but also a street strip car. not doing that until neccesary but a good fuel system is always important. as far as fiberglass..the hood i had and the bumper and fender got smashed in a hit and run so i had a stock replacement fender and bumper went fiberglass for weight savings and price. I couldnt have a door that wouldnt open and a bumper dragging...just to explain that.
im going to fine tune the chassis as well , i like the super stock setup but im definitly going to get the pinion snubber in and the subframe connectors dialed in. then look at better cal-tracks set-up wich i do like.
Other then that i need to get a working tach since the one i bought dosnt work and i can see what its stalling at.
I would like 4:11s though since the car is still pulling allot at the finish line but i will do that if it still seems to need it.
I think the car has alot of potential as is and a good tune would do alot... even timeing and geting the carb dialed in.
This race was soo soo rushed i painted the car /cleared it twice do to problems and put the motor together and back in in 2 weeks.... imagine the things missed... we had midnights after midnights on the car and i went of knowing the timing was probly 180* off anyways so i know i dont need to put to much thought into those et's.
I think tuning the car in and getting the suspension set up better will do alot for the car though.

And as for as a cam goes, i have debated this for quite some time now and want to go a little bigger maby even solid cam but with stock flat top pistons i have clearence issued and need to rip into all that then which is a snowball effect of parts and money.. im thinking of getting stuff inline to upgrade cam and pistons that would be compatable with a stroker setup in the far far future so im not buying everything more then once but i would like to see what i can do on this motor.
thanks again everyone.
 
I think you need more cam and stall to get your time down but rear suspension is important also like getting a pinion snubber. Jayson
 
Hamesdart. The Key To The Queastion Is. 4.56 Gears, 5000 To 5500 Stall Converter. The Motor Is Ok. 31x10.5x15 Drag Slicks. If Your Car Scales At 3400 Lbs. It Will Run 11.20 Or Better On 1/4 Mi. . On The 1/8 Mile It Should Turn Around 7.45. 1.60 60 Ft.times There Are Converters Out There In The 800.00 Range. Good Luck And Go Racing Gary.
 
yah seems like a 391 to 411 change isnt too much,
But with a small cam like a 509 lift i think 5500 stall is pretty high dont you?
 
2k for a converter? yikes.

You can likely get a good converter for around 500-700.

Try to get the tune up right.
 
Still no mention on what carb you have?Is it flopping on launch?As mentioned,you should be in the 11,s with your setup.Good Luck!
 
That Motor Should Pull To 6200 To 6400 Rpm's With No Problem.you Need To Keep The Engine Rpms Up All Through The First 2 Gears, You Will Winn Most Of Your Races In The First 200 Ft. If You Need To Cam A Little Bigger Do It. Go For It Gary
 
MY 72 DART IS RUNNING A 360 SMALL BLOCK I RUN A SOLID ROLLER CAM 488 GEARS AND 5000 STALL CONV. 31X10.5X15 MT SLICKS. MY BEST TIME ON 1/8 MILE ON ENGINE ONLY IS 6.95 100.00 MPH THATS 10.95 TO 11.00 1/4 MY SHIFT PTS ARE 6900, 6700. 3RD. MY 60 FT TIMES ARE 1.46 TO 1.53 good luck GARY
 
stroked 340 said:
Try a real converter tci's are crap....
Click to expand...

I agree 100%, its your converter, you do not have enough stall period, & TCIs for the most part are crappy, call PTC in Ala., they will put you in the right converter for the right price, you don't need a high $$$ converter for what your doing, just a good quality piece, no need shelling out 9-1000.00 for a converter, thats rediculous, unless your shooting alot of N2o & you need a balloon plate & a special stater, a 500.00 unit is all thats needed, i would get a 38-4200 flash stall.

As for the gears, you have 3.91s, going to 4.11s won't do much, if not anything, so run those.

Your 750 will be fine also, holleys are great carbs, & very tuneable.

Nothing wrong with the .509.
 
flboatman1 said:
MY 72 DART IS RUNNING A 360 SMALL BLOCK I RUN A SOLID ROLLER CAM 488 GEARS AND 5000 STALL CONV. 31X10.5X15 MT SLICKS. MY BEST TIME ON 1/8 MILE ON ENGINE ONLY IS 6.95 100.00 MPH THATS 10.95 TO 11.00 1/4 MY SHIFT PTS ARE 6900, 6700. 3RD. MY 60 FT TIMES ARE 1.46 TO 1.53 good luck GARY
Click to expand...


He has a BB, whole different animal.
 
I think the stall he has in it is fine.

Its not a small block, its a 440.
Heaps of torque.
It should be jumping off the line,i dont think your tune
is right,750 cfm is abit small for a 440 but other than that
i say the motor needs some sorting/tune.
3.9's is plenty!

It should be 113-115 mph an into the 11's for sure with that
setup.

Tuning is everything.
 
IMO the torque in that motor should live fine with 3.91's or 4.10's... I would jump up to a shorter gear if you were running a small block.... but I think you would be revving too high with the Big Block when it isn't necessarily "needed", just my opinion.

Here's a "just for reference" kinda thing. My Old Challenger in my signiture, would run a consistant 8.1 1/8th, prob around 1 12.8 quarter (this is at decent elevation). The car was a full weigh E-Body, 440 six pack, .509 cam, 10.5:1, stock exhaust manifolds, and 3.91:1 gears. Also had 27x10.5 Mickeys Streets on it on stock springs.

You'll find alot more ET as you play with the car more, I think a good tune on a dyno, and some rear suspension work will get you where you want.

Tony
 
Read this thread from Moparts. There are some cars running pretty good with a smooger 440 engine.
http://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads...Number=4660238&PHPSESSID=&fpart=1#Post4660238

I still think not enough converter for the 509 cam. The 484 would run better in that combo and is better cam pretty much the entire RPM range except the last 500-600 rpm. Seen it too many time when somebody "upgrades" to the bigger cam using the same converter. I'd get something that flashes to 4000-4500 range.

I wouldn't bother with a 3.91 to 4.10 swap. 4.30's maybe, not enough change on the 4.10's

Tuned up right it should be capable of 112-114 mph.
 
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