1965 Dodge Dart Charger

[MOBodyman]

The paint process is getting closer and closer.

Today I recieved the package from PPG with the paint in two spray cans and two test pieces!!

The paint was very nice. The gold metallic for the interior was dead on. The yellow exterior paint was a little tricky! To me I think it looks a little more greenish compare to my untouched piece of metal.

1. Can color get another luster over the years?
2. The later metallic seems to have a little more metallic in it compare to orginal. Does anyone have any comment or knowledge about that?
3. I don't know how they mixed paint back in the days. Did for example all yellow painted cars had the exactly the same color if you compared them?

Any help is greatly appriciated!

1. Color can and will change with time. The sun can 'bleach' some of the pigment and cause a color change, especially with single stage paint. Modern clear coat paint has UV inhibitors which help to prevent this.
2. Modern metallics seem to have more brilliance than older metallics. I think this is partially due to a change in the make up of the metallic (not made of the same material as old metallic).
Spray technique also has an effect. Metallic paint sprayed at a low pressure using a slow dry reducer (or thinner) will cause the flake to be 'buried'. If it is sprayed at a high pressure using a fast dry reducer the flake tends to stay more on the surface.
3. Color tended to vary, sometimes considerably. I once worked on 2 pickups that were the same year and color code. The colors were so different you would have thought they weren't even the same color!
There were a lot of variables-how much paint the painter applied, temperature variations, paint suppliers, etc.

Hope this helps,
Dallas

 

[Plaschy]

Yes. Color changes over the years.

The sunlight and the oxygen in the air are the mayor factors. Depending on which color the car is painted with, the change occurs more or less clear to the eye. For instance, a red paint fades more over a ten year period (if not clear coated) than a white paint.

The color also changes depending if you look at it direct sunlight or in the dark.

Even if you find a painted surface of the car that has never been exposed to direct sunlight it differs from the day it was painted. Not much but a little.

Additional impact of color is humidity, pollutants and how the car has been stored. Indoors makes the color fade less than stored outdoors. Direct sunlight will bleach the color faster than total darkness.

 

[65dartcharger]

In that case I think it's ok to continue. Thanks guys for the input in this matter!

The best part is that this goes without any clear coat. I know that it would be better with clear coat but that was not the factory process!

Thanks again! :cheers:

 

[MOBodyman]

In that case I think it's ok to continue. Thanks guys for the input in this matter!

The best part is that this goes without any clear coat. I know that it would be better with clear coat but that was not the factory process!

Thanks again! :cheers:

I would say you would be hard pressed to get it any closer than you have. The car is going to be beautiful and I doubt anyone has done any more research on this model than you have....so the judges won't be able to prove it should be any other way. lol

I agree about the clear coat. It wouldn't be right on a car that is an authentic restoration, and it won't look the same as single stage. Clear will tend to make metallics stand out a bit more and enhances certain colors, making them appear brighter than they were originally.

Great job as always! You should write a restoration book!

Dallas

 

[65dartcharger]

I would say you would be hard pressed to get it any closer than you have. The car is going to be beautiful and I doubt anyone has done any more research on this model than you have....so the judges won't be able to prove it should be any other way. lol

I agree about the clear coat. It wouldn't be right on a car that is an authentic restoration, and it won't look the same as single stage. Clear will tend to make metallics stand out a bit more and enhances certain colors, making them appear brighter than they were originally.

Great job as always! You should write a restoration book!

Dallas

Dallas!

I'm writing a reference manual for ICCA. User are car judges or some one that want's to restore a 1965/1966 Dart!!

I think the paint will look great and I'm also happy about the metallic paint for the interior. One paint that I haven't located is the color on the upper part of the instrument panel. It seems like some kind a glossy paint. I will need to check into that.

I took apart the front bumper tonight. The bolts on NOS bumper guards are different compare to the assembly line guards. The assembly line workers used H head bolts while Chrysler used some other kind of bolts for the spare parts.

On the inside of the bumper guards you can see black paint on the upper half. Last picture is the inside of an NOS bumper guard with shiny glossy black paint. Not sure why the paint is there but one idea is that you might see the inside of the upper half of the guard.

 

[65dartcharger]

I opened a package that arrived yesterday from Dan (slantsixdan).

In the package was two different types of turn signal flasher relay. The manufacturer was Tung Sol and according Dan was the longer relay the type that was used back in the days. So that's what's going into my car!

I continued with the seat knobs and took them apart. According to Legendary Auto Interiors the material in the seat knob are not the same as the material in the seat covers! After some closer examination I found out that the pattern on the backside of the material on the seat knob is the same as the backside of the seat cover material.

However on the front side of the material in the seat know is a pattern that is different but that is due to wear over the years. Lucky me Legendary will provide me with some extra material for the seat knobs!

 

[slantsixdan]

Glad they got there safely. To be clear: I've found both the long type and the short type flasher in low-miles original cars, and I've found long ones and short ones NOS under the same part numbers, but I don't know the rhyme or reason (if any) as to which style went in on which date at which factory. It's not a standard-duty/heavy-duty difference; I've found both of those types in both long and short cans. If I were in your position, I'd try out both flashers, decide which one I like best in terms of function (flash rate, click sound) and use that one. But you have two so you could also swap them every week!

 

[65dartcharger]

:banghead:

Glad they got there safely. To be clear: I've found both the long type and the short type flasher in low-miles original cars, and I've found long ones and short ones NOS under the same part numbers, but I don't know the rhyme or reason (if any) as to which style went in on which date at which factory. It's not a standard-duty/heavy-duty difference; I've found both of those types in both long and short cans. If I were in your position, I'd try out both flashers, decide which one I like best in terms of function (flash rate, click sound) and use that one. But you have two so you could also swap them every week!

Dan! Thank you so much! I owe you one!

I know that some one asked me about the color on the instrument panel. Here is picture on the name of the paint for it.

Today I took apart the seat knobs. Of the 7 I had one was in terrible shape! If some one has two of these for sale I'm more than happy!:happy1:

It took quite some time to get them apart and after that I could start polishing them. They turned out super but it was a liittle tricke on the inside!!

I need to glass bead the inside of the knob and get those parts in decent condition.

On the 1965 Dart 2 dr hardtop (not sure about 64 and 66) there is two rubber plugs on each side of the floor pan to cover holes beside the mounting holes for the seat. After going through Everything from the disassembly I found one! :banghead:

So if some one has three for sale I would be more than happy!

 

[65dartcharger]

The dash pad in not in good condition. But it might be a good cord for some Company that can restore them. Anyone here on FABO that have good experience with a company restoring dash pads? Mine is cracked and sun burned on the top while the underside is in very good condition!

The weatherstripping that goes around the doors has a special pattern. Does anyone know if these weatherstripping can be bought and where?

The console is still a mystery. Anyone having pictures of the the floor console? Were they brown or gold?

 

[slantsixdan]

Door windlace/weatherstrip can be bought new; see here. The new material is quite close to the original in appearance, profile, and texture, but if "quite close" won't suffice (like if there's not a perfect colour match for what you want) there is NOS material available here.

Consoles were colour-keyed, see this pull from the '65 FPC (I'm not seeing brown as an option; perhaps this what you have started out as one of the reds, or has been painted):

 

[MOBodyman]

I notice the last 2 digits of the console p/n appear to be the color code. Chrysler used X9 to denote black for years, for example, and R6 is a lighter shade of red than R7.

I'll try to remember to look at my Dupont color charts tomorrow. Not sure if I have the listings for interior colors back to '65, though. If I have the interior colors listed I could get a paint code. Dupont recommended laquer for the interior back then.
Dallas

 

[slantsixdan]

Interesting idea, but I'm not seeing mention of the console on the interior page of the '65 Dodge paint chart. Also seems to me if the console were meant to be painted, we might see it listed as a PAR (Paint As Required) part with only one service part number...no?

 

[Clroads]

Mine is gold. Emailed photo

 

[65dartcharger]

Mine is gold. Emailed photo

Thanks Clroads! I've never seen that before!

 

[MOBodyman]

Interesting idea, but I'm not seeing mention of the console on the interior page of the '65 Dodge paint chart. Also seems to me if the console were meant to be painted, we might see it listed as a PAR (Paint As Required) part with only one service part number...no?

Dan, I do remember years ago the parts books listed interior parts by color and you could order whatever color you wanted. However, I ran into situations where I ordered say, a tan part, but received a blue part. Thinking there was a mistake or the part was packaged wrong, I would reorder it. Then I might receive another blue one, or maybe red or black. When I questioned the parts guy about not getting the color I ordered he said that after a period of time, all the replacement parts were just stored together or boxed up with out regard to color, and they were just randomly pulled when an order came in. After the cars were a few years old it wasn't feasible to stock every part in every color. Eventually, the parts might be listed in the book as PTM (paint to match) until all stock was depleted.

My Dupont color charts only go back to 1966 so my info may not apply to the '65 model year. However, on the usage chart for various interior colors Dupont does list the console as among the parts to be painted.

You notice all interior color #s have an 'L' suffix. This denotes 'Lucite' which was the Dupont trade name for laquer. I don't know if there is anyone who mixes Lucite any more. It's not available locally. I also don't know if the Dupont #s could be crossed over with any other brands. At one time that was possible. Interior paint also had a flattening compound added as stated on the back of the chart.

Modern Dupont interior paint (vinyl paint) is based on the Chromabase paint system. The balancer and binder is replaced with vinyl resin in either low, medium, or high gloss. It can be used on any interior surface, not just vinyl.

Now, regarding the console in question. In case a quality replacement is not found I personally would paint it. Done properly with the appropriate paint it would be really hard to detect. Vinyl paint is high hiding but thin so it doesn't fill in the texture of parts. It usually covers with 2 very light coats. Of course it won't look pristine if it has scratches or rub marks on it. Paint won't hide them.

I hope this sheds a bit more light on the subject.
Shown are the 1966 color charts.
Dallas

 

[MOBodyman]

I just remembered I took these pics of a friend's car awhile back. I thought I would post them in case they might help. I think the passenger door panel was partially sprayed with something so it looks messed up.
Dallas

 

[slantsixdan]

I've had very good results by properly using good quality plastic and vinyl paint on good quality plastic parts, appropriatel prepared, see here and here for examples.

 

[MOBodyman]

I've had very good results by properly using good quality plastic and vinyl paint on good quality plastic parts, appropriatel prepared, see here and here for examples.

Nice write-ups Dan. :thumbup:

I've had paint mixed using the color scanner and most of the time it works very well. As you mentioned, a knowledgeable paint tech will know which additives to use in a plastic and vinyl formula.

For solid colors I've also used the color spectrum chart which has chips that gradually fade from one color to another. Many times you can get a nice match that way.

Dallas

 

[65dartcharger]

I've had very good results by properly using good quality plastic and vinyl paint on good quality plastic parts, appropriatel prepared, see here and here for examples.

Dan! That was an idea that I haven't thought about. I need the white pearl paint on these covers for the seat hinge! I searched every where and according to all that I have talked with they don't have them and they are not being reproduced.

It might be possible to do the same procedure on the seat knobs too!

MOBodyman! Thanks for clearing up Everything around the paint process.

Clroads! Thanks for all the Pictures from your car. I will post an ad for
that gold one. AY3

 

[MOBodyman]

I owned a '68 Barracuda convertible that originally had a black interior. I changed it to pearl white seats and door panels.

The rear panels on those cars are hard plastic and the original panels on cars with a white interior appear to be a low gloss white with no pearl effect.

I wanted my rear panels to match the pearl white door panels so I found some pearl white paint for a late model car and shot them with that. The pearl effect wasn't quite noticeable enough so I added some old school white pearl to that and it came out just right. Sorry I don't have a pic of the interior that shows the rear panels.

So you might be able to have some white pearl paint mixed with the plastic and vinyl additives and use that on your hinge covers.

Good luck,
Dallas

 

[65dartcharger]

Door windlace/weatherstrip can be bought new; see here. The new material is quite close to the original in appearance, profile, and texture, but if "quite close" won't suffice (like if there's not a perfect colour match for what you want) there is NOS material available here.

Consoles were colour-keyed, see this pull from the '65 FPC (I'm not seeing brown as an option; perhaps this what you have started out as one of the reds, or has been painted):

Thanks Dan! I was able to get a NOS set for my car! Yihaa!

Yesterday I picked up a package from Yearone with some wiring harness. Thanks Don (65 dartman). The wiring harness was in mint condition with all wiring right and even the gasket inside the connector was there!

I have a question ; was there a part number tag on the engine wiring harness? I can't recall ever seen one in place!

Started the procedure to getting the cooler springs for the drums in right color. They need to dry out all the oil I put them in.

 

[Martythetrimmer]

Hi Ulf...it's been a while since I've check your build page, as detailed as ever!

try this link for your interior materials...they have huge stocks

http://www.smsautofabrics.com/

 

[slantsixdan]

Thanks Dan! I was able to get a NOS set for my car! Yihaa!

Excellent!

I have a question ; was there a part number tag on the engine wiring harness?

Almost certainly yes, but that's an educated guess -- not a case of specifically remembering having seen one.

Started the procedure to getting the cooler springs for the drums in right color

"Cooler springs for the drums"? If you mean the coil springs around the outer circumference of the brake drums, they're not for cooling, they're for noise suppression.

 

[65dartcharger]

Excellent!



Almost certainly yes, but that's an educated guess -- not a case of specifically remembering having seen one.



"Cooler springs for the drums"? If you mean the coil springs around the outer circumference of the brake drums, they're not for cooling, they're for noise suppression.

Thanks Dan for the input. I had a good laugh! All these years I have been told that the spring was for cooling purpose only. Even the tech at the dealer we had back in the 80ies told me that! LOL! Well, I guess you never stop learning! Thanks Dan!

LAst night I was able to get all nuts, bolts, screws and washers sorted out by area on the car. I even got to add the rods on the door looks. I just need to find lithium grease!

I started to make a big box to ship my glass to Finland so they can make new windshields for me. The chrome mouldings that goes on the side windows seems to be put in place and then put together the ends!

 

[65dartcharger]

PPG Sweden called me and said that they could be able to provide me with solid paint for my car. The old paint test sheets was with clearcoat!! :banghead: When I got back home from work I found these test pieces. Not sure what they are called!!LOL

When I compared the test sheets I found a yellow which is almost as it was. It is a little more yellow compare to the old test. The left upper little piece is the solid paint.

The gold metallic is almost the same. The test piece to the right is the one that I think is most like the stock piece.

Any comments?