haven’t. should i get one? seems useful.
1966 Plymouth Valiant /6 & Holley 1945 carb can only get to idle at 1250rpm. How to get a lower idle without dying?
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junkyardhero
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yes. 1000% yes.
it sounds like you're chasing a massive vacuum leak, and you're fighting a battle on two fronts with separate janky/unknown carbs.
the one with the borked screw might be a lost cause, the other "NOS" one likely needs a rebuild. or you may find yourself needing to source yet another carb that's known to be in good proper working order.
establish some basics first: like checking the timing, confirming the mark on the balancer corresponds with TDC, making sure the plug wires are all in the correct order, the manifold is tight, you have the right base gasket for the carb, all the hoses are routed to the correct ports or blocked off, you have fuel flow both at idle and at speed, you have free and unrestricted air flow, you have full throttle, the accelerator has a pumpshot, you don't have a loose wire or incorrectly wired components in the ignition system. your float bowl vent isn't blocked off. and so on and so forth.
it's a long and tedious process, but all of these things can add up. it's death by 1000 cuts, a little here, a little there and you have something that's undriveable.
confirm the basics. establish a baseline. then work the tree from there.
yes. 1000% yes.
Do you think the weird exhaust manifold I have could be playing any sort of role? It’s closed but I wonder.
Also, the intake flange gasket just has the “rough cut” thick looking one, and a thinner one. Am I supposed to use both, or just one? The car just has the thicker one on it.
I’m pretty sure both the 1945 and 6145 carbs have been refurbished, both have a little sticker on them that other members have said means they have been refurbed by a third party. I just rebuilt the 1920 with a mike’s carb’s rebuilt kit and got no fuel flow.
I’ll start looking at all that other stuff.
I at the moment, have a 1945 which is pretty crusty and fubar looking, a 6145 (no difference after rebuilding) on the car, and a 1920 that I can’t get fuel flow after rebuilding. I also have no idea what throttle linkage I need for it.
Do you think the weird exhaust manifold I have could be playing any sort of role? It’s closed but I wonder.
Also, the intake flange gasket just has the “rough cut” thick looking one, and a thinner one. Am I supposed to use both, or just one? The car just has the thicker one on it.
I’m pretty sure both the 1945 and 6145 carbs have been refurbished, both have a little sticker on them that other members have said means they have been refurbed by a third party. I just rebuilt the 1920 with a mike’s carb’s rebuilt kit and got no fuel flow.
I’ll start looking at all that other stuff.
Hey guys,
I haven't abandoned this thread or anything. Just got busy with life. Car's had a major oil leak (half quart overnight) for the past week and a half so I'm going to see what it is tomorrow. Been spending way too much on oil. Probably the oil pan but we'll see. I've read some other threads, but in summary:
1) get car on jack stands,
2) remove steering + idler arm ball joints from steering linkage center link
3) remove motor mount bolts
4) raise engine
5) remove oil pain and RTV the hell out of it
any pointers? I can't take the whole engine out, I rent a room and I don't think the o'reilly's guys would appreciate me pulling my engine in their parking lot. there aren't any shops that rent their bays either... there is a "neighborhood workshop" that is $200 monthly and requires an additional $100 course for use of their vehicle lifts, that require reservation, so not that. Any tips on this service? Thx.
Forgot to mention. The car will idle at 650-750 rpm with my foot on the pedal. Issue is that idle keeps changing. Me and a neighbor set it yesterday, and it's dying again. He says it's running super rich but I don't have any experience with that so I don't know.
Buying a vacuum gauge, engine crane and a bunch of other **** from harbor freight tmrw.
Thanks y'all for being so patient with this lol.
I haven't abandoned this thread or anything. Just got busy with life. Car's had a major oil leak (half quart overnight) for the past week and a half so I'm going to see what it is tomorrow. Been spending way too much on oil. Probably the oil pan but we'll see. I've read some other threads, but in summary:
1) get car on jack stands,
2) remove steering + idler arm ball joints from steering linkage center link
3) remove motor mount bolts
4) raise engine
5) remove oil pain and RTV the hell out of it
any pointers? I can't take the whole engine out, I rent a room and I don't think the o'reilly's guys would appreciate me pulling my engine in their parking lot. there aren't any shops that rent their bays either... there is a "neighborhood workshop" that is $200 monthly and requires an additional $100 course for use of their vehicle lifts, that require reservation, so not that. Any tips on this service? Thx.
Forgot to mention. The car will idle at 650-750 rpm with my foot on the pedal. Issue is that idle keeps changing. Me and a neighbor set it yesterday, and it's dying again. He says it's running super rich but I don't have any experience with that so I don't know.
Buying a vacuum gauge, engine crane and a bunch of other **** from harbor freight tmrw.
Thanks y'all for being so patient with this lol.
junkyardhero
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try and fix one problem at a time. i know it's difficult with the thing hemorrhaging black gold everywhere.
doing a pan gasket in-situ sucks a hairy one. buy or rent a tie rod separator so you don't destroy them. get a good gasket set and some "right stuff" and you should be good to go. make sure it's the pan gasket and not the rear main leaking. that's right bastard to do laying on your back.
you don't *need* a cherry picker to get the motor up, you can use a floor jack and pieces of 2X4 to block the motor in position.
anyway, back to the (likely) carb issue. the idle fluctuating is more likely a sign of it running lean due to a vacuum leak than rich. if it's also running rich, it's likely due to the fuel pouring from the boosters because the float level is set incorrectly (or too much fuel pressure).
keep at it, i know it can be frustrating but you'll get there.
doing a pan gasket in-situ sucks a hairy one. buy or rent a tie rod separator so you don't destroy them. get a good gasket set and some "right stuff" and you should be good to go. make sure it's the pan gasket and not the rear main leaking. that's right bastard to do laying on your back.
you don't *need* a cherry picker to get the motor up, you can use a floor jack and pieces of 2X4 to block the motor in position.
anyway, back to the (likely) carb issue. the idle fluctuating is more likely a sign of it running lean due to a vacuum leak than rich. if it's also running rich, it's likely due to the fuel pouring from the boosters because the float level is set incorrectly (or too much fuel pressure).
keep at it, i know it can be frustrating but you'll get there.
junkyardhero
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jacraest said:
pictures. pictures. pictures. these cars are 50+ years old, who knows what's been changed.
if you can't get fuel, check/adjust/re-set your float level.
again, pictures. i have a sneaking suspicion that the motor has some kind of a bitza situation going on.
as to the exhaust manifold, have you checked the operation of the heat riser flap (aka the butterfly in there). make sure it's not froze up and restricting flow.
one gasket only. likely the "rough cut" thicker looking one is the one you want. but bear in mind certain carbs have specific base gaskets and you could be inducing an airleak by mixing and matching pieces around.
I'll send some pictures when I run by my house today. When I DO remount the 1920, I'll adjust the float level and see if I can't get fuel flow after adjustment.
I've looked at the service manual now I know where it is. I'll check at my house for that counterweight moving about a 1/2" CCW.
The "rough cut" one was one of two that came with the 6145. I don't know. I bought the 6145 kit from o'reilly's (walker kit), but mike's carburetor parts' kit for the 6145 doesn't come with the thinner gasket that's the same size with the same cutouts as the rough cut one.
Nevermind… ahaha!
After driving it for 15 mins, letting it sit for an hour while I was doing something, it now refuses to start. Even with starter fluid, which makes me think it’s ignition related?
At first it would idle like **** at ~1250, and closing the choke helped it idle. But now it refuses to start. Attached are the pics of the 1920 and 1945. The exhaust butterfly valve is moving freely, so doubt it’s that. With the choke completely open and at full throttle just now, it couldn’t get above 3000rpm. Gonna try the fubar carb and see what happens.
After driving it for 15 mins, letting it sit for an hour while I was doing something, it now refuses to start. Even with starter fluid, which makes me think it’s ignition related?
At first it would idle like **** at ~1250, and closing the choke helped it idle. But now it refuses to start. Attached are the pics of the 1920 and 1945. The exhaust butterfly valve is moving freely, so doubt it’s that. With the choke completely open and at full throttle just now, it couldn’t get above 3000rpm. Gonna try the fubar carb and see what happens.
I would go back to AJs post #22 I believe it was and follow thru.
Have you ever pulled the gas tank and check for rust/trash/dead bugs and the pick up tube with sock filter? First thing I do with any project. And the line from tank to fuel pump.
Metal fuel filters are safer but the plastic ones let you see the gas level in there.
As said before, choke closed more and it speeds up mans it wants a richer mixture.
Coming behind any one can be a cluster**** that has "tied" to work on an old car.
Like you just said, you can have issues with electrical inc. distributor. Thats another ball game..
Working on old cars that run like c*** is like needing a GOOD doctor that can diagnose whats is wrong with you! If he wants to just start cutting off your parts and pieces, you need a better doc!
Have you ever pulled the gas tank and check for rust/trash/dead bugs and the pick up tube with sock filter? First thing I do with any project. And the line from tank to fuel pump.
Metal fuel filters are safer but the plastic ones let you see the gas level in there.
As said before, choke closed more and it speeds up mans it wants a richer mixture.
Coming behind any one can be a cluster**** that has "tied" to work on an old car.
Like you just said, you can have issues with electrical inc. distributor. Thats another ball game..
Working on old cars that run like c*** is like needing a GOOD doctor that can diagnose whats is wrong with you! If he wants to just start cutting off your parts and pieces, you need a better doc!
That’s my problem, I’m not a good doc lol. I haven’t pulled the gas tank. I daily drive it. Some good news!
FFFUBAR carb FTW!
I swapped the carbs and now have it idling at 750. It looks ugly but it’s doing a better job than the nicer one, not sure for how long though. Gonna give it a test drive.
I don't have to two foot it anymore. Took it for a test drive and it sputters/wants to die if I give it more than 50% throttle. If I mash the pedal, the engine cuts out completely. I'm thinking either a clogged jet or a leaking gasket. I'm gonna spray around the carb with some carb cleaner, and if I don't get anything, then I'll take it apart and clean it. When I took it out of the box, I could hear what sounded like a ball bearing bouncing around. That normal?
EDIT: the sputtering has gotten better. Happens a little less often and a little less frequently. Most noticeable when accelerating onto freeway speeds of 65mph.
EDIT: the sputtering has gotten better. Happens a little less often and a little less frequently. Most noticeable when accelerating onto freeway speeds of 65mph.
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Hey guys, it got worse.
Turns out the oil leak was from a cracked oil pan. One of the many previous owners put in a slant from a later car that rubbed against the K member and made it crack in the front and another in the back. Gonna need a new oil pan or dent in this one and get it welded. Fun fun fun.
Turns out the oil leak was from a cracked oil pan. One of the many previous owners put in a slant from a later car that rubbed against the K member and made it crack in the front and another in the back. Gonna need a new oil pan or dent in this one and get it welded. Fun fun fun.
junkyardhero
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is the engine original to the car or is it from a later date, thus explaining the pan situation?
i believe that the early body takes a unique pan. @MidnightSwinger or @RustyRatRod would be able to confirm
i believe that the early body takes a unique pan. @MidnightSwinger or @RustyRatRod would be able to confirm
Yeah it’s a later engine. Blue block and 5 freeze plugs. I know the pan I need, just don’t have it. It’s the pan without a number stamped on it. Bulge in the middle. Don’t know where to find it either. There’s a guy near me selling the oil pan I need, I can only hope he actually has it.
The oil pans for the early A bodies are all their own. Nothing else will fit without making contact. .......and they are kinda hard to find.
Also, the early a body pans are not the only pans with no number and they all pretty much have the sump in the center, except the truck, so be very careful when looking for one, because there's only one that will fit.
I cannot tell 100%, but I don't think so, no. Maybe if you could rotate 90 degrees clockwise and get a picture from that side I can be sure.
junkyardhero
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a follow up question: does it have to correct motor mounts to keep it off the frame? and are the insulators in good shape?
it'd be terrible to get a new pan in there only for the same fate to befall it.
(i know this doesn't help you with sourcing a new one)
it'd be terrible to get a new pan in there only for the same fate to befall it.
(i know this doesn't help you with sourcing a new one)
Oh ****. I got no idea. Didn’t even think of that. Maybe? I’d need a reference. I’m guessing the insulator is a rubber piece?
edit: here’s a pic. It’s dark out, so a better one will have to wait til tomorrow.
Guy never responded.
Another issue - the oil pan is rubbing on the center link. The back section of the oil pan looks the same between it and the earlier A body oil pans. Am I able to modify and dent it in? The pan's getting welded atm. The motor mounts look fine, not compacted - then again I have no frame of reference for how thick they should be though they are OEM. Bushings are all completely shot. I've read that shimming could help - but wouldn't replacing the bushings just make things worse (like the linkage sitting up higher?) What do you guys think?
EDIT: so as far as I can see, my options are (after replacing shot bushings and tie rod end boots)
1. shim motor mounts
2. shim steering linkage idler arms
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It's your car. Rig it up however you want to, but it's the wrong pan and that's the whole issue. I've been through this a long time ago and the sumps are not the same, front or back. I have three early A pans including the one on Vixen, the one on her original engine sitting on the floor and the one for the new engine I have going together. Trust me. They're different. There is ONE other pan that CAN work, and does work in everything else with no modifications (except trucks) but, you guessed it, requires a "little" massaging rot eht early A, but those pans are just as hard to find. WHY any company will not make one is beyond me, because they would sell. ALL they'd need to make is TWO pans. Make one to fit all the car chassis and one for the trucks and that's it, but they won't do it.
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I do not and let me just tell you, I look constantly. On here, ebay, marketplace......
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