1968 Barracuda Notch - Plano, TX

[mosleyme]

interested in your build. have the 2.0 on mine, valve train not lined out yet tho---bob

2.0 as in Neon engine? Otherwise not sure I understand the comment.

 

[mosleyme]

Cylinder head arrived today! Aluminum head fully assembled weighed 28.8 lbs, the iron head weighed 50.0 lbs. That is 42 lbs off the nose. Plus fiberglass hood, aluminum radiator, and battery in the trunk.

Pictures of existing iron head for comparison, exhaust port, and intake port pictures. Also added a picture of the intake, and a picture of the head sitting on the block. With that much aluminum intake, especially since I am considering powder coating it a silver color I am thinking I should paint the heads. Also keep in mind there will be accessories covering a good deal of that front head surface. Any thoughts?

 

[varlo]

wow the car looks amazing.

 

[Backtobasics]

:cheers::cheers:

 

[SNKEBIT]

Paint the engine parts. After a few miles with no paint, the aluminum starts to look pretty crappy.

 

[Hellcat Cuda]

Gonna be a gorgeous build! REALLY NICE car! subscribed...

 

[clair.davis]

With all that AL on the top end of the engine, I can see going either way. If you're going silver with the intake, I guess you could go silver with the heads, too. I don't know what it takes to powder coat heads, and if you've got to take them all apart to do it, that might not be worth the hassle. I think having a bunch of bright AL over an orange block would look great. Would probably be more "business" if everything was dressed up like a stock engine... with some latitude for the injected cross-ram six-pack being a slight deviation from stock...

All that said, I painted my AL M1 intake because it wasn't bright, raw aluminum when I got it, and I'm not sure I could get it back there, either. The AL Magnum alternator in my car is also kind of dull gray, with the occasional white speck of corrosion popping up.

Clair

 

[mosleyme]

OK... flashback to 2001. I built a nice "new" 440 for my Barracuda. The machine work on the block and heads was done by Muscle Motors in Lansing, Michigan. Part of the deal with doing the job with them was that they did all the prep on the block. They align bored the mains with ARP studs, line hone the cam journals, decked the block, opened up oil passages, increased the pick up size to 1/2", balanced the rotating assembly, milled the heads, did some minor porting on the heads, and etcetera. I chose and purchased the camshaft, rods, pistons, rings, torque converter, balancer, rockers, rocker shafts, pushrods, bearings, intake, and a few other parts from them. I had them ship everything on pallets to the local yellow freight, then I checked everything and assembled it myself. Since they were taking a profit on the parts and machine work they made me a package deal and I paid a little less. If I had bought many of these parts separately I would have probably paid more overall. Besides, I was leaning on their knowledge base to help me with some of the decisions I think it is fair they get some of the payback.

Anyway - one issue on assembly was that the intake did not fit. It was off by quite a bit, I could only see about half of the bolt hole in the head through the hole in the intake. I talked with the guys at MM and they said this was not unusual with the heads and block both being machined. So I made some measurements and took the intake to a local buddies machine shop where we took 0.110" off both sides. That is a lot! But everything lined up afterwards.

So, one of the first things I checked with the new intake is if it fit. It looked like it would need considerable milling as well. So I put this off. Originally I had planned to run this intake with my iron heads, but, with the need to cut on the intake I decided to go a different direction. My long term plan was to go with a nice set of aluminum aftermarket heads. Well, if I was going to have to cut, I wanted to cut once! So I decided to hold off. Once the car left the paint shop I ordered my heads... and waited.

Apparently Edelbrock was out of the heads I wanted when I ordered them in June through the machine shop. They took quite some time to get there, and then a few weeks to be checked, ported, flowed, chambers polished, valves cut, and then assembled. So I finally got them last week. Today I test fit the heads and intake.

Heads fit. Intake fits. Ports line up, no additional cutting needed! Wow!

 

[famous bob]

OK... flashback to 2001. I built a nice "new" 440 for my Barracuda. The machine work on the block and heads was done by Muscle Motors in Lansing, Michigan. Part of the deal with doing the job with them was that they did all the prep on the block. They align bored the mains with ARP studs, line hone the cam journals, decked the block, opened up oil passages, increased the pick up size to 1/2", balanced the rotating assembly, milled the heads, did some minor porting on the heads, and etcetera. I chose and purchased the camshaft, rods, pistons, rings, torque converter, balancer, rockers, rocker shafts, pushrods, bearings, intake, and a few other parts from them. I had them ship everything on pallets to the local yellow freight, then I checked everything and assembled it myself. Since they were taking a profit on the parts and machine work they made me a package deal and I paid a little less. If I had bought many of these parts separately I would have probably paid more overall. Besides, I was leaning on their knowledge base to help me with some of the decisions I think it is fair they get some of the payback.

Anyway - one issue on assembly was that the intake did not fit. It was off by quite a bit, I could only see about half of the bolt hole in the head through the hole in the intake. I talked with the guys at MM and they said this was not unusual with the heads and block both being machined. So I made some measurements and took the intake to a local buddies machine shop where we took 0.110" off both sides. That is a lot! But everything lined up afterwards.

So, one of the first things I checked with the new intake is if it fit. It looked like it would need considerable milling as well. So I put this off. Originally I had planned to run this intake with my iron heads, but, with the need to cut on the intake I decided to go a different direction. My long term plan was to go with a nice set of aluminum aftermarket heads. Well, if I was going to have to cut, I wanted to cut once! So I decided to hold off. Once the car left the paint shop I ordered my heads... and waited.

Apparently Edelbrock was out of the heads I wanted when I ordered them in June through the machine shop. They took quite some time to get there, and then a few weeks to be checked, ported, flowed, chambers polished, valves cut, and then assembled. So I finally got them last week. Today I test fit the heads and intake.

Heads fit. Intake fits. Ports line up, no additional cutting needed! Wow!

so, what do the new heads flow ?

 

[roccodart440]

Car looks great

 

[mosleyme]

so, what do the new heads flow ?

That is an interesting question. Which flow bench which day?

That question aside, Edelbrock claims these heads flow 290cfm @ 0.600" out of the box. The particular flow bench MM used measured 270cfm @ 0.600" out of the box and 304cfm @ 0.600" after some "mild" porting AKA thier "Stage 2" porting.

 

[clair.davis]

How do the new heads compare to the old ones? Did MM flow them when they rebuilt them, or did they have some baseline numbers for the spec porting job they did? I know a bunch of folks have flowed RB heads over the years, but it's been a decade since I paid attention to those numbers...

Clair

 

[mosleyme]

How do the new heads compare to the old ones? Did MM flow them when they rebuilt them, or did they have some baseline numbers for the spec porting job they did? I know a bunch of folks have flowed RB heads over the years, but it's been a decade since I paid attention to those numbers...

Clair

Stock 452 flows about 205cfm @ 0.600". Basic port job using the old template kit from Mopar will pick you up about 10%. The MM guys told me the most I could expect from the job they did back then with the larger valves at that porting level would have been 250cfm. A full race port could put you over 300cfm on the iron heads. He told me I could expect 80-100hp more than the heads that I am replacing.

 

[dodgedartgt]

Hi Michael,

Sure is looking good, slowly (expensively?) coming along. I've always had my car's bumpers, but never brackets until now. Re post #317. Is there a doubler that goes on the inside when mounting the rear, or just the two flat washers? Also, did you make the two closed cell foam gaskets, or are the factory correct?

Thnx, Mike in FL

 

[mosleyme]

Hi Michael,

Sure is looking good, slowly (expensively?) coming along. I've always had my car's bumpers, but never brackets until now. Re post #317. Is there a doubler that goes on the inside when mounting the rear, or just the two flat washers? Also, did you make the two closed cell foam gaskets, or are the factory correct?

Thnx, Mike in FL

Just the thick flat washers on the inside. Foam gaskets are "factory correct" reproductions from Detroit Muscle Technolgies. If you look at post #317, the gasket in the picture is original, the gaskets you can see in post #318 are reproductions. They go between the body and the bracket.

http://www.detroitmuscletechnologies.com

EDIT: Note - the "flat" washers are not only thick, they are dished like a Belleville washer and provide some spring tension.

 

[roccodart440]

That is an interesting question. Which flow bench which day?

That question aside, Edelbrock claims these heads flow 290cfm @ 0.600" out of the box. The particular flow bench MM used measured 270cfm @ 0.600" out of the box and 304cfm @ 0.600" after some "mild" porting AKA thier "Stage 2" porting.

Most of the CNC porters are all using MCH's program and it flows about 325 on stock valves. My RPM heads flow 345 but have oversized valves.

If you go on FABO there is a thread started by roccodart440 about cylinder head porting. Check it out.

 

[mosleyme]

We have been stupid busy at work and that along with a weekly dose of physical therapy for my shoulder saps my energy. Took this week off and just hanging out with the kids. This afternoon they were quietly playing with new toys, momma was reading and nursing a prime rib in the oven... I suddenly had "free" time. I did not know how to act. I snuck out to the garage. Stripped the front bumper brackets and painted them up with a coat of rustoleum etching primer. Not much progress, but at least I feel like I am moving forward again. Tomorrow I will paint them and maybe Alec and I can mount the front bumper.

 

[mosleyme]

I have been giving it a lot of thought. It would be very little effort to change the car over to run E-85. Everything in the fuel system can manage, the only difference would be to go up on the injector size. The EFI ECM I have is supposed to be the cat's meow in that department and can store up to four individual "tunes" activated by switch. So, a 93 octane gas tune and an E-85 tune can both be stored.

One of the reasons I am looking so seriously into this is that the engine is 11.25:1 and it is going to be on the edge for running on pump gas. E-85 would be a non-issue in that area for sure.

I have a gas station 2 miles from the house that sells E-85 at the pump. I have a 32 gallon tank and a fuel delivery system that is capable. E-85 is about 70 cents cheaper than super unleaded and will allow the car to run cool in the summer months with no issue.

Any comment?

 

[Abodybomber]

Great thread, really impressed with the effort & attention to detail. Gorgeous car.

 

[famous bob]

great thread, really impressed with the effort & attention to detail. Gorgeous car.

x 2

 

[DNasty777]

I have been giving it a lot of thought. It would be very little effort to change the car over to run E-85. Everything in the fuel system can manage, the only difference would be to go up on the injector size. The EFI ECM I have is supposed to be the cat's meow in that department and can store up to four individual "tunes" activated by switch. So, a 93 octane gas tune and an E-85 tune can both be stored.

One of the reasons I am looking so seriously into this is that the engine is 11.25:1 and it is going to be on the edge for running on pump gas. E-85 would be a non-issue in that area for sure.

I have a gas station 2 miles from the house that sells E-85 at the pump. I have a 32 gallon tank and a fuel delivery system that is capable. E-85 is about 70 cents cheaper than super unleaded and will allow the car to run cool in the summer months with no issue.

Any comment?

I'd say go for it, I was considering the switch on my last car, the thing that stopped me was that I'd have to drive across the city about 25 mins to get to the only station that had E-85 anytime I want to fill up and it was my daily. I ended up just using W/M injection instead.

I'm not sure if I've already posted this here, but this is shaping up to be one of my favorite rides on this site, keep up the good work!

 

[mosleyme]

Earlier in the week I painted the previously primered bumper brackets flat black.

Today installed the brackets and the bumper on the front.

In the third picture I circled two bolt holes with red, and another pair of holes in green. I believe there is a bracket that goes from one red hole to the other, though I do not remember there ever being this bracket since I have owned the car. If you have this bracket on your 67-68 Barracuda a picture and a measurement from the center of one hole to the other would be greatly appreciated. Anyone know what bolts on to the green holes on the latch support?

 

[mosleyme]

Got some pictures from my friends on the "67-69 Barracuda Owners Group" e-mail list.

Apparently there is an angle bracket that goes in there. No one knows of a use for the upper holes, maybe a bracket for a different A-body model.

 

[jaws]

If that support is the same as a Dart, the grill from a Dart has a bracket that bolts up there.

 

[mosleyme]

Last Sunday and Monday:

OK... carbon scraped from the pistons - check. Last weekend I used my new "thread chasing set" and chased all the head bolt threads in the deck and a few others that are exposed on the engine. Ran the gasket scraper over the deck surface as well. Getting things ready for installing the heads.

Cleaned up the cylinder walls and valley with lint free non shedding rags and some oil. Went down each cylinder a few times as I rotated the engine 1/4 turn at a time to bring the pistons to the top in order to clear the carbon off the top of the pistons. The cylinder walls and inside of this engine are really clean considering it was built in 2001 and has been in the car since. Not a lot of miles in that time though, longest single trip was from Austin to Dallas. Maybe 1000 miles per year tops from 2001 to about 2008, none since.

Built a holder for my lifters and removed them. Found about ten quart containers of oil in various grades that I do not use anymore, some has been sitting on the shelf 8-10 years. Drained the pan and let it drip for an hour or so at dinner time. Installed my new dipstick tube. Put the drain plug back in and added seven quarts to my seven quart pan. Calibrated my new dipstick - it comes extra long and you cut it to length. Now I need to find a suitable plug for the hole where the factory dipstick goes into the block. Drained the "fresh" oil.

The new dipstick is flexible so it can go around headers, has a pivoting attachment ear to mount on a header bolt, and it uses a quick disconnect style collar to lock it into place when it is seated. I like it overall, though they could have made the gauge section flat and thus made it easier to read. Reading a dipstick with fresh clean oil is a little difficult.​

Yesterday:

Painted the oil pan yesterday - black engine enamel. Cleaned outside of block, chased all the oil pan bolt holes, one of them was a little cross threaded on the timing cover, so that was repaired.​

Today:

Removed the old balancer. That took almost an hour alternating between the 1/2" impact gun and the 3 pound slide hammer. When it finally broke free I heard a little snap, I thought I had broken the puller. I remember it being a little tight going on, but wow, never had one put up that much fight before. I was contemplating warming up the torch for a bit there, but did not really want to go there if I did not need to.

I checked the height of the oil pump pickup, it has a full 1/4" clearance to the bottom of the pan. I installed the pan with a new style nylon windage tray that has the built in raised silicon beads on both sides and the steel compression sleeves. http://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS-Performance-Products/555/502000/10002/-1?parentProductId=1660861

I cleaned the block and head mating surfaces and installed the new head gaskets. Alec got in on the action and torqued down the head bolts on one side... it looked so much easier when dad was doing it! We counted to 17 in three languages... 17 head bolts per side, torque in 3 steps per the ARP instructions... re-check torque at each step, 17... 17... 17... seventeen... diecisiete... ju nana...

I painted the engine and called it a night. Took some pictures.​