318 build suggestions?

[junkyardhero]

i can't comment on price for the short block because there's not enough info.

as to the rest, it sounds like you're building a blvd brawler, so street manners are [mostly] out the window, which is good... because you need a pretty rowdy cam to get were you want to.

the magnums *seem* like a good choice, but once you put the money into machine work and porting, plus the valve train and some roller rockers you could easily be at trick flow's which are a straight bolt on and go, and the options for roller rockers are much better/cheaper/available.

personally i'd go TF's with an eddy airgap. top it up with your choice of carb in the 750ish range. then select a cam based on where and how you want to make power. probably something in the 500 lift range and 280+ duration. a roller cam will absolutely stomp, but that's a good bit of dosh to splash out. don't cheap out on a timing chain.

 

[CFD244]

if you want to know a fair price to pay for your buddies 318 short block then you don't have it yet. me? i'd get a 360 instead and make 400hp easier and cheaper.

Hey @toolmanmike could you move this posting to the "How to build a suped up cargo van thread" Just kidding of course!

 

[volaredon]

Short version: Build a 360...

WE NEED THE RED X BACK
I CAN'T BE THE ONLY ONE HERE TIRED OF HEARING ""BUILD A 360"

 

[mygasser]

WE NEED THE RED X BACK
I CAN'T BE THE ONLY ONE HERE TIRED OF HEARING ""BUILD A 360"

if you have a 318 build it, if not and you want 400+hp why look to buy a 318 to start with? i've had several 318's, the last i fitted into my valiant with a tunnel ram and solid cam so i'm not a hater. it's just easier and cheaper to get that hp with a 360 is all i'm saying.

 

[junkyardhero]

WE NEED THE RED X BACK
I CAN'T BE THE ONLY ONE HERE TIRED OF HEARING ""BUILD A 360"

if you're starting from square one, the most economical way to make more power is with more cubes. a 360 is cheap, abundant and has an absolute massive amount of less expensive go fast parts.

THAT IS WHY EVERYBODY SAYS BUILD A 360

it takes more compression, more cam, more RPM and better heads to make the SAME power with a 318. which equates to more money, less street manners and likely a shorter lifespan.

also, your caps lock is stuck.

 

[273]

I don't see any evidence a 318 needs a lot more head, carb, cam etc. To make 400 hp.

Look at those 400 hp 318 combos, it's basically headers, airgap, 750, 224-240 cam, 9.5-10.5:1 cr, heads that flow 220-230 cfms, you look at 400 hp 340/360 builds pretty much the same recipe.

400-450 hp 340/360's

https://www.motortrend.com/articles/mopp-0102-1970-340-high-performance-mill-dyno/

https://www.motortrend.com/articles/59l-magnum-engine-make-mine-a-5-9/

https://www.motortrend.com/articles/mopp-0303-360-crate-engine-buildup/

https://www.motortrend.com/articles/mopp-0007-chrysler-360-engine/

https://www.motortrend.com/articles/hrdp-0804-small-block-mopar-engine/

 

[273]

Even if you stay 318, these mods are still applicable, just gonna happen 300-600 rpm higher.

 

[Exjouster]

i can't comment on price for the short block because there's not enough info.

as to the rest, it sounds like you're building a blvd brawler, so street manners are [mostly] out the window, which is good... because you need a pretty rowdy cam to get were you want to.

the magnums *seem* like a good choice, but once you put the money into machine work and porting, plus the valve train and some roller rockers you could easily be at trick flow's which are a straight bolt on and go, and the options for roller rockers are much better/cheaper/available.

personally i'd go TF's with an eddy airgap. top it up with your choice of carb in the 750ish range. then select a cam based on where and how you want to make power. probably something in the 500 lift range and 280+ duration. a roller cam will absolutely stomp, but that's a good bit of dosh to splash out. don't cheap out on a timing chain.

I’m leaning towards the TF’s, on the assumption that if I want to build a different small block down the road someday then I can just transfer the heads over.

 

[junkyardhero]

I’m leaning towards the TF’s, on the assumption that if I want to build a different small block down the road someday then I can just transfer the heads over.

i think that's a solid move and if i was building something in a similar manner that's the track i'd take.

 

[junkyardhero]

I don't see any evidence a 318 needs a lot more head, carb, cam etc. To make 400 hp.

Look at those 400 hp 318 combos, it's basically headers, airgap, 750, 224-240 cam, 9.5-10.5:1 cr, heads that flow 220-230 cfms, you look at 400 hp 340/360 builds pretty much the same recipe.

400-450 hp 340/360's

https://www.motortrend.com/articles/mopp-0102-1970-340-high-performance-mill-dyno/

https://www.motortrend.com/articles/59l-magnum-engine-make-mine-a-5-9/

https://www.motortrend.com/articles/mopp-0303-360-crate-engine-buildup/

https://www.motortrend.com/articles/mopp-0007-chrysler-360-engine/

https://www.motortrend.com/articles/hrdp-0804-small-block-mopar-engine/

you know what, you're right.

but since you like to nerd it up, look at the graph overlays on the power.

the 318 bands are much narrower.

but yeah "pretty much"

 

[273]

Top one 388-400 hp from 5,500-6,500 rpm that's a pretty wide peak hp and torque pretty flat from 3,500-5,500 rpm 371-382 tq.

The others aren't looking too bad either, look like pretty good power curves to me and all that was mentioned was a peak 400 hp goal, and all I said was the recipe seems fairly consistent be it a 318 or 340/360.

Magnum headed 318, pretty similar to the 380hp crate 5.9l.

Dyno Results
Mopar 318
RPM	HP	TQ
3,000	190	332
3,500	241	376
4,000	286	376
4,500	321	375
4,900	357	382
5,000	363	381
5,500	388	371
6,000	398	348
6,200	400	339
6,500	393	318

Eq headed 318 ootb vs ported.

RPM	TQ	TQ	HP	HP
	BASE	PORTED	BASE	PORTED
3,000	335	335	192	192
3,200	342	340	208	207
3,400	351	356	228	231
3,600	365	369	250	253
3,800	374	379	271	274
4,000	379	384	289	293
4,200	378	383	302	306
4,400	375	383	314	321
4,600	376	382	329	335
4,800	375	386	343	353
5,000	372	384	354	366
5,200	367	383	363	378
5,400	361	379	371	390
5,600	355	374	379	399
5,800	350	371	386	409
6,000	345	365	395	418
6,200	341	360	402	425
6,400	329	345	401	421

Port 302's smsllest cam xe268h

Junkyard Jewel 318 Power Curves
RPM	TEST 1		TEST 2		TEST 3
	Torque	HP	Torque	HP	Torque	HP
3,000	334.9	191.3	354.1	202.3	349.1	199.4
3,500	360.7	240.4	378.2	252.0	380.7	253.7
4,000	376.6	286.8	402.3	306.4	401.5	305.8
4,100	379.3	296.1	402.4	314.1	401.6	313.5
4,500	374.0	320.4	402.5	344.9	400.1	342.8
4,600	374.0	327.6	403.1	353.0	400.6	350.9
4,700	373.5	334.2	400.6	358.4	408.0	365.1
5,000	363.9	346.4	389.7	371.0	402.0	382.7
5,500	344.0	360.2	368.3	385.7	386.5	404.8
5,900	331.1	372.0	347.1	390.0	361.4	406.0
6,000	328.3	375.0	344.0	393.0	353.8	404.2
6,100	319.4	371.0	339.2	394.0	347.8	404.0

 

[273]

If going TF's I'd really shop for a 360+ engine, there more designed for 475-525 + hp, a 318 is gonna need to turn some decent rpms to get there 6,500-7,500 rpm. Would they work on a more mild 318 ? 400-425 hp with a fairly mild cam possibly, probably better then most would think but why under use them to a huge degree.

 

[junkyardhero]

when all people care about is a number, a lot gets left on the table.

having built exactly that 400hp 318 and comparable 360 builds to those other articles, i'll tell you that the difference in the car, in practical application, is stark.

 

[273]

when all people care about is a number, a lot gets left on the table.

having built exactly that 400hp 318 and comparable 360 builds to those other articles, i'll tell you that the difference in the car, in practical application, is stark.

Didn't say they were not, all I said is to make the 400 hp goal the OP wants it's practically the same recipe be it 318 or 340/360, if you feel the 360 makes more sense, I'm not disputing that, I would tend agree, (I got a 400 hp 360) but I disagree that the 318 needs a vastly different combo to reach the OP's hp goal.

 

[junkyardhero]

"practically"

but feel free to disagree, as is your right. which also means you're welcome to be wrong.

 

[318willrun]

wonder what the goal of the car is... and how we know 400 hp meets that goal... and won't exceed or falls short of that goal.

 

[273]

wonder what the goal of the car is... and how we know 400 hp meets that goal... and won't exceed or falls short of that goal.

We don't and probably never will most people goals seem random (pull from a hat hp #'s) and vague.

 

[318willrun]

We don't and probably never will most people goals seem random (pull from a hat hp #'s) and vague.

not random numbers pulled from a hat..... always and precisely 400 hp.... since the early 80's... every 350, 327, 340, and 351 had 400 hp. All of them. Even if they ran 15.65 @ 85 mph in the camaro, still had 400 hp. lol

P.S. nothing against the OP

 

[RustyRatRod]

if you're starting from square one, the most economical way to make more power is with more cubes. a 360 is cheap, abundant and has an absolute massive amount of less expensive go fast parts.

THAT IS WHY EVERYBODY SAYS BUILD A 360

it takes more compression, more cam, more RPM and better heads to make the SAME power with a 318. which equates to more money, less street manners and likely a shorter lifespan.

also, your caps lock is stuck.

All that's true. What's also true is, not everyone wants a 360 in every application. THe 318 can get some really good mileage that's tough to get from a 360.

 

[318willrun]

All that's true. What's also true is, not everyone wants a 360 in every application. THe 318 can get some really good mileage that's tough to get from a 360.

If a goal is set for the car instead of the engine, then it's much easier to decide if the 318 is the smart choice or if a 512 stroker is the right choice. An honest to goodness 275 hp engine will leave a black mark pulling out of the parking lot, gain speed up hills on a touch of the gas, and pass a slow moving car very quickly, and run into the 14's in a A-body car with highway gears. In this case, the 318 they already own is a smart choice. If they want to run with their brothers Red Eye Scat Chally, then the 318 becomes a poor choice (naturally aspirated) from a cost perspective.

I always want to know the goal for the car instead of a HP number desired. I find way way way too often the two aren't aligned from the owner of the vehicle.

 

[Newbomb Turk]

That's not worth it. I have 3 engine dyno's and 3 chassis dyno's within a couple hours of me. I know it's only a number (a low one) but I wish I had spun my 273 up just to see. If I would have seen 250 horse I would be happy. Teens are rated at 230 horse so anything you do to them will be an improvement. Basic hot rodding will get you to 400 horse

Aren’t you in Iowa TMM?

 

[toolmanmike]

Aren’t you in Iowa TMM?

Yes

 

[Newbomb Turk]

Yes

Damn. You have a lot of Dyno’s pretty close.

That’s a good thing.

 

[AJ/FormS]

if you want to know a fair price to pay for your buddies 318 short block then you don't have it yet. me? i'd get a 360 instead and make 400hp easier and cheaper.

And you can make way more mpgs out of the small-cammed 360. than the big-cammed 318.

Moving the power up 600 rpm in a 318, to make the number, is about 3 cam sizes, that's ~ 21 degrees on the intake duration, so like 292 degrees, compared to a 360 at say 270, like the one I once had.
I started with the 292/108, didn't like it. took it out
Next up was the 270/110*, loved it, but it died.
got greedy and installed a 276/110*, bad move. Liked the 270 better.
All were installed at near to the same cylinder pressure. up around 185psi.
The 292 would have been ok with like 4.30s and an overdrive.
The 270 did not care what gears were in it.
The 276 finally got the overdrive .

Street driving on street tires,
maxing out at 65/70 mph, is a three-gear deal.
Second gear is gonna take you from 30 to 60 mph.
First is a tire-frier and is only used to idle around with, and/or to get to Second.
Third gear is for cruizing.
400hp, without a traction aid, is way overkill.
300hp, without a traction device is still cooking the tires in First. It's a lotta fun in Second, if it has a stout bottom end. If not, then
350hp, is middle of the road, but you better have some cylinder pressure and a good convertor.
These are my opinions based on personal experience.

 

[273]

And you can make way more mpgs out of the small-cammed 360. than the big-cammed 318.

Moving the power up 600 rpm in a 318, to make the number, is about 3 cam sizes, that's ~ 21 degrees on the intake duration, so like 292 degrees, compared to a 360 at say 270, like the one I once had.
I started with the 292/108, didn't like it. took it out
Next up was the 270/110*, loved it, but it died.
got greedy and installed a 276/110*, bad move. Liked the 270 better.
All were installed at near to the same cylinder pressure. up around 185psi.
The 292 would have been ok with like 4.30s and an overdrive.
The 270 did not care what gears were in it.
The 276 finally got the overdrive .

Street driving on street tires,
maxing out at 65/70 mph, is a three-gear deal.
Second gear is gonna take you from 30 to 60 mph.
First is a tire-frier and is only used to idle around with, and/or to get to Second.
Third gear is for cruizing.
400hp, without a traction aid, is way overkill.
300hp, without a traction device is still cooking the tires in First. It's a lotta fun in Second, if it has a stout bottom end. If not, then
350hp, is middle of the road, but you better have some cylinder pressure and a good convertor.
These are my opinions based on personal experience.

If running similar heads a 318 ain't gonna need 21 more cam degrees to turn higher rpm.

You look at that 400 hp magnum headed 318, go a 230 cam making peak power at 6200 rpm a similar cam 5.9l magnum gonna be more like 5400-5500 rpm.