35 mph WOT power loss

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DentalDart said:
Ok update... fixed my hose... since I was fixing the one hose I fixed them all...

The trans was shifting a touch late, so I adjusted it like 1/2 turn on the adjuster nut. Tried it again and it was a touch better and so I adjusted again 1/2 turn and hopefully that puts it pretty darn close.

Tomorrow I will do a couple partial to WOT pulls and see what we got. I was getting yelled at for going out tonight, she said I should have done all that while the baby was sleeping.... instead of taking 2 naps today... :rolleyes:

I did notice that the trans was not flaring up at all when shifting. So thats good, the flare was im hoping caused by the carb not fully opening...
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Carb won't have anything to do with the flare. The flare is caused by the timing of second gear releasing and high gear engaging. If your band (which controls high gear) is too loose, as the clutches (which are everything but high gear) release there isn't any drag yet from the band and the engine rpms climb. Finally the band "catches up" and pulls the revs back down. If your band is too tight, it will pull the revs down in the shift but will also pull the acceleration or speed down. It'll feel like it's throwing you forward during the shift. Which isn't good either, but I'd you haven't felt anything like that then you've never been close to too tight on the band.

You're trying to adjust with the throttle valve with what should be adjusted by the governor (shift rpm). You're also trying to adjust the flare with the throttle valve when you should be setting the band tension to fix it.

If you don't like the high shift rpm then you need a governor. If you don't want to fry clutches, then you need to tighten the band slightly.

The throttle valve should always go to max when at WOT.
 
Phreakish said:
Carb won't have anything to do with the flare. The flare is caused by the timing of second gear releasing and high gear engaging. If your band (which controls high gear) is too loose, as the clutches (which are everything but high gear) release there isn't any drag yet from the band and the engine rpms climb. Finally the band "catches up" and pulls the revs back down. If your band is too tight, it will pull the revs down in the shift but will also pull the acceleration or speed down. It'll feel like it's throwing you forward during the shift. Which isn't good either, but I'd you haven't felt anything like that then you've never been close to too tight on the band.

You're trying to adjust with the throttle valve with what should be adjusted by the governor (shift rpm). You're also trying to adjust the flare with the throttle valve when you should be setting the band tension to fix it.

If you don't like the high shift rpm then you need a governor. If you don't want to fry clutches, then you need to tighten the band slightly.

The throttle valve should always go to max when at WOT.
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Ok I understand this.
 
WTruo said:
So it dosen't work or it works when it wants to?
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The a/c does not work, never has. The ac clutch on the compressor works but the system is not charged. It needs charged, new hoses, a dryer and a new condenser... its a project for another day...
 
DentalDart said:
Lol no... I want to really bad all it does is look pretty and suck HP.

I was worried about pulling it and not having the brackets; causing problems with the length of the bolts that hold everything on. I'm probably over thinking it though...

View attachment 1715654065

View attachment 1715654066
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I temporarily deleted my AC with no issues whatsoever. Really the only change I made was going from 3 belts to 2. Been running it that way for a while with no problems.
 
DentalDart said:
The a/c does not work, never has. The ac clutch on the compressor works but the system is not charged. It needs charged, new hoses, a dryer and a new condenser... its a project for another day...
Click to expand...

For what's its worth I deleted the a/c on my 86 D150. It was pretty straight forward and im only running one less belt. Didn't have to change bolts or anything.
 
Went and did some partial to WOT pulls.

Car just goes! No bog. Its nice. I think it was throttle cable not opening the carb all the way which was keeping the secondaries (?) From coming open.

Under light throttle- 1st-2nd shift was a little over 21 mph and 2-3rd was around 40 mph, it was holding 2nd a little long. That needs to come down, stock is 18 mph and 28 mph (I believe)

I'll adjust the kd a bit, it would need to be loosened to bring the shift points down but right now I have no flare (double checked my front band adjustment) and crisp shifts. Just a little higher shift points than I want them under light throttle. I didnt do any WOT pulls from a stand still, I'll do that after getting the light throttle shifts right....
 
Thanks everyone for all your help. I know it takes me a while to understand what some people are saying and sometimes it may seem as if I'm not listening but I promise I'm trying to listen and understand as fast as I can.

I see why people have professionals do their transmissions and also why people do manual valve bodies... add to the to do list...
 
DentalDart said:
The a/c does not work, never has. The ac clutch on the compressor works but the system is not charged. It needs charged, new hoses, a dryer and a new condenser... its a project for another day...
Click to expand...

Just to be clear, and fair, what you're doing isn't uncommon. None of us like dealing with the governor and band adjustments are only slightly more enjoyable...

If it works, it works. But since you do drive it so much (much more than most of us, I'm jealous) it's a good idea to make it "right." usually people want the shift to happen later, higher (5500+ rpm).

What do you consider a "high" part throttle shift and "high" WOT shift (in rpm)? That's an important part of the equation.

Many want WOT to happen high (5500+), part throttle a little lower (4-4500) and light throttle to happen in the 2500-3500 range (+/- depending on actual combo and gears).

You can deviate from this, of course. Just make notes of what you want vs what you have and then call the vendors to see what they recommend. Or you can get creative with used slant six governors and try to DIY it with some tinkering.
 
DentalDart said:
Went and did some partial to WOT pulls.

Car just goes! No bog. Its nice. I think it was throttle cable not opening the carb all the way which was keeping the secondaries (?) From coming open.

Under light throttle- 1st-2nd shift was a little over 21 mph and 2-3rd was around 40 mph, it was holding 2nd a little long. That needs to come down, stock is 18 mph and 28 mph (I believe)

I'll adjust the kd a bit, it would need to be loosened to bring the shift points down but right now I have no flare (double checked my front band adjustment) and crisp shifts. Just a little higher shift points than I want them under light throttle. I didnt do any WOT pulls from a stand still, I'll do that after getting the light throttle shifts right....
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Sounds good! You can drop the shifts by lowering the line pressure, but why do that? You won't spill your coffee.

By loosening the throttle linkage, you're lowering your pressure in a different way. The governor overrides the throttle pressure to an extent and will change both the WOT and part throttle shift RPMs.
 
Phreakish said:
Just to be clear, and fair, what you're doing isn't uncommon. None of us like dealing with the governor and band adjustments are only slightly more enjoyable...

If it works, it works. But since you do drive it so much (much more than most of us, I'm jealous) it's a good idea to make it "right." usually people want the shift to happen later, higher (5500+ rpm).

What do you consider a "high" part throttle shift and "high" WOT shift (in rpm)? That's an important part of the equation.

Many want WOT to happen high (5500+), part throttle a little lower (4-4500) and light throttle to happen in the 2500-3500 range (+/- depending on actual combo and gears).

You can deviate from this, of course. Just make notes of what you want vs what you have and then call the vendors to see what they recommend. Or you can get creative with used slant six governors and try to DIY it with some tinkering.
Click to expand...

Ah I see.

So my light throttle shifts are clean with no flare and happen around 2500 rpm and are at just over 21ish mph, 2-3rd was a little over 2600 rpm and 43mph...

Just did a WOT pull and had good shifts around 5krpm and were must higher speeds lol.

I had another antifreeze mishap... time to clean again... I double checked the new hoses being tight but... apparently one was not tight enough...

20201220_204635.jpg
 
DentalDart said:
Ah I see.

So my light throttle shifts are clean with no flare and happen around 2500 rpm and are at just over 21ish mph, 2-3rd was a little over 2600 rpm and 43mph...

Just did a WOT pull and had good shifts around 5krpm and were must higher speeds lol.

I had another antifreeze mishap... time to clean again... I double checked the new hoses being tight but... apparently one was not tight enough...

View attachment 1715654173
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Next time the engine is cold, take off the radiator cap and then start it. Tell us if your coolant gushes out or if you have bubbles percolating out.

Also, check your oil before you start it next. Make sure it has no water in it. Your hose problems have me concerned..
 
Phreakish said:
Next time the engine is cold, take off the radiator cap and then start it. Tell us if your coolant gushes out or if you have bubbles percolating out.

Also, check your oil before you start it next. Make sure it has no water in it. Your hose problems have me concerned..
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You're worried about his hose.

:rofl:
 
Phreakish said:
Next time the engine is cold, take off the radiator cap and then start it. Tell us if your coolant gushes out or if you have bubbles percolating out.

Also, check your oil before you start it next. Make sure it has no water in it. Your hose problems have me concerned..
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Yea I thought of that as well, I can see it gusing out of the hoses both times though. First the split hose and this time the hose right behind the a/c unit.
 
Yeah, but the hoses shouldn't be bursting or gushing... Your rad cap should be 18psi max, probably more like 12.

I'd still do the two checks, just to rule out headgaskets.
 
Phreakish said:
Yeah, but the hoses shouldn't be bursting or gushing... Your rad cap should be 18psi max, probably more like 12.

I'd still do the two checks, just to rule out headgaskets.
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Well my old hose split down the middle of it, it was old and sat in a desert for at least 8yrs before I got the car.

Tonight, it was coming out the bottom of the hose where it attaches on the nipple at the intake manifold. Tightened up the clamp and it should be good, I will for sure check my radiator and my oil.

I've never had a problem until the old hose split last night.
 
Doc sounds like your secondary flap is opening to early there is a spring adjustment on the side of the carb by adjusting the spring clockwise 1/4 turn at a time I think you cannot go more than 1 turn max it will delay the transition from 2 to 4 . Note keep pressure on that locking screw otherwise spring will unwind . In the manual it will show you factory setup in case you screw it up.Dismiss this 408 swinger put a vid up to show how to adjust it. Doc run a man/valve body ! that way shift it at what rpm you like .
 
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DentalDart said:
@Phreakish oil is nice and clean, like I put it in yesterday lol.

My wife is pissed.... I dumped antifreeze all over the neighborhood street :rofl:
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Good! that means your bearings aren't dead. But I'd still crank it with the rad cap off - you can get combustion pressure in the coolant passages without getting water in your oil. It's a quick and easy check that's worth doing just to be sure. Alternately you can get a pressure tester that attaches where your rad cap goes - but those cost money that your wife would probably prefer to toward more Santa accessories ;)

You can also tell the wife you did the neighborhood a favor. The coolant will prevent ice from forming on the street :D
 
Phreakish said:
Good! that means your bearings aren't dead. But I'd still crank it with the rad cap off - you can get combustion pressure in the coolant passages without getting water in your oil. It's a quick and easy check that's worth doing just to be sure. Alternately you can get a pressure tester that attaches where your rad cap goes - but those cost money that your wife would probably prefer to toward more Santa accessories ;)

You can also tell the wife you did the neighborhood a favor. The coolant will prevent ice from forming on the street :D
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Ice forming in Vegas? Lol.

I'll start the car with the cap off after my daughter wakes up from her nap.
 
DentalDart said:
Thanks everyone for all your help. I know it takes me a while to understand what some people are saying and sometimes it may seem as if I'm not listening but I promise I'm trying to listen and understand as fast as I can.

I see why people have professionals do their transmissions and also why people do manual valve bodies... add to the to do list...
Click to expand...

I had my 904 done by a shop which the owner races a Duster with a 904.

And I am still going thru what you are going thru !

Have we established if you have a part throttle kick down valve body ? We may be chasing a ghost if not .
 
mbaird said:
I had my 904 done by a shop which the owner races a Duster with a 904.

And I am still going thru what you are going thru !

Have we established if you have a part throttle kick down valve body ? We may be chasing a ghost if not .
Click to expand...

I have a part throttle kick down vb with a tf2 shift kit...
 
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