4 speed with TTI headers!??

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65 Valiant

65 Valiant

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Hi,

i think we found out some problems yesterday...

I have a 65 Plymouth Valiant which was a /6 and has now a 360 with Hughes Stage III heads.
I bought a nice pair of TTI headers-the correct 63-66 ones which should fit.

Problem: Car is a 4 speed. I bought all my conversion trans parts from Brewer's. It looks like that the new Z-bar linkage won't fit without some big header modifications or will never fit.
Now i think about using a hydraulic clutch. Does that work?
I have the Brewer's SB Aluminium Bellhousing, a 10,5" flywheel and a centerforce dual friction.
What i need is a new throwout bearing and the cylinders i think!?

Who knows something about installing or has some tech tips for me?

Who offers hydraulic conversion kits? Keisler?

thx a lot

JAN
 
Have you contacted Wayne @ Brewers to see what's up?
 
There is a Z bar mod needed to run TTI's and a 4 speed. TTI instructions should have that info in them.
 
LS-300 said:
Have you contacted Wayne @ Brewers to see what's up?
Click to expand...


Yes, some weeks ago.

Wayne is in hospital and i talked to his son Dan.
They do not have any experience with TTI headers and their z-bar.

TTI lists some requirements for using their headers but nothing named about using a 4 speed z-bar:sad1:
 
I have a hydraulic clutch on my 65 Comet 302/5 speed. I used a 3/4 inch master cylinder and a 3/4 inch slave cylinder instead of the hydraulic throwout bearing because I think you have to remove the trans to adjust it. My 5 speed had bosses cast into the case to mount a bracket for the slave cyl. Not sure if the 4 speed has that. getting the pivot point on the clutch pedal is critical or your master bore will wear out. I got what I needed from Speedway motors. Seems like modifying your Z bar would be easier...
 
I believe Passion now has the Hydro kit.Last one I used was from Keisler on a 68 Hemi Charger.Lot less moving parts.
 
Challenger said:
i had same problem and sam at tti sent me a new z bar for that problem
Click to expand...

Is that z-bar different to that from Brewer's?

I hope it will fit my ballstud brackets on the frame and the bellhousing!?

i just emailed TTI and hope to get a quick response...
 
Typical problem when running TTI's with a 4 speed in a Abody. Big dollars for their setup and then you have to crimp, peen or dent your nice new shiny headers and rework the dogleg of the Z bar to get things to work as they should. Lots of posts on here with guys having the same problem with their cars, myself included. I still think TTI could rework their setup to be a bit more user friendly than it is within a specific year group of cars. I know there are suttle differences in the locations of clutch linkages with the different years from the factory, but the technology is out there for them to make the fit better than it is.

JMO.
 
416stroker said:
Typical problem when running TTI's with a 4 speed in a Abody. Big dollars for their setup and then you have to crimp, peen or dent your nice new shiny headers and rework the dogleg of the Z bar to get things to work as they should. Lots of posts on here with guys having the same problem with their cars, myself included. I still think TTI could rework their setup to be a bit more user friendly than it is within a specific year group of cars. I know there are suttle differences in the locations of clutch linkages with the different years from the factory, but the technology is out there for them to make the fit better than it is.

JMO.
Click to expand...


x2

but talking about what should be won't help me now!

I'm not really sure what i should do.

for a hydraulic throwout bearing i must use an application that will fit the A833. A part where i can fix the bearing.
I saw it on the Keisler page. There is a ring around the bearing input retainer where you can fix the throwout bearing. Don't know if something like this exists for an A 833 or if someone build such applications!?
 
I used the TTI Z-bar in my '74 Duster, 360, with TTI headers. I also used the schumacher engine mounts.

I wonder if the TTI Z-bar would help in your situation?
 
I talked to Wayne brewer when I was up there and he has concerns about using a hydraulic throw out bearing. The idea of introducing a fluid into an area you want kept dry wasn't a good one. We did talk about a hydraulic set-up that uses a cylinder to push on the release arm. Still compact and getting rid of components that get in the way of some headers.
 
I e mailed american powertrain to check what they think.

@LS-300

i know what you're thinking about. But this is only a semi solution. if there will be no fork etc. you'll have more space for the headers-and i need space!!
btw: i use 1.06" torsion bars. will see if that works...
 
LS-300 said:
I talked to Wayne brewer when I was up there and he has concerns about using a hydraulic throw out bearing. The idea of introducing a fluid into an area you want kept dry wasn't a good one. QUOTE]


My 91 Cherokee with 4.0 liter and manual 5 speed (T5) used a hydraulic throw-out bearing. Everything was fine until around 120K. I would be sitting at a stop with the clutch in and the Jeep would start creeping forward so I had to change it, a little spooky but no biggie.
Also, IIRC, the previous generation Camaro/Firebird used a hyd throw-out bearing with their Tremecs. I've met Wayne and talked to him, nice guy, but...he needs to update his thinking.
Click to expand...
 
KosmicKuda said:
LS-300 said:
I talked to Wayne brewer when I was up there and he has concerns about using a hydraulic throw out bearing. The idea of introducing a fluid into an area you want kept dry wasn't a good one. QUOTE]


My 91 Cherokee with 4.0 liter and manual 5 speed (T5) used a hydraulic throw-out bearing. Everything was fine until around 120K. I would be sitting at a stop with the clutch in and the Jeep would start creeping forward so I had to change it, a little spooky but no biggie.
Also, IIRC, the previous generation Camaro/Firebird used a hyd throw-out bearing with their Tremecs. I've met Wayne and talked to him, nice guy, but...he needs to update his thinking.
Click to expand...

i agree....there are MANY cars out on the road today that are using a hydraulic throw out bearing....people say ya gotta pull the trans to install or replace a Hyd. T.O. bearing....true....BUT, you gotta pull the trans when ya replace a regular T.O. bearing....
Click to expand...
 
Some news.

I got a response from Sam @TTI. He send me some pictures which show their headers and a stock working clutch with fork.
A second picture is from their modified z bar.
But note: He said that he don't know if that application work with my car. They only have experiences with late 60 models!!
I don't want to buy parts which a can't use cause they won't fit!
I got a second reply from Gray @ american powertrain.
He offers me a complete hydro clutch kit and can give me a guarantee that this kit will work with my bellhousing etc.
only a small mod at the inner fender,thats it!

shown here:

http://www.americanpowertrain.com/cart.htm#ecwid:category=146603&mode=product&product=706967

that is not cheap but in the end i hope it will work...

What do you think??
 
65 Valiant said:
Some news.

I got a response from Sam @TTI. He send me some pictures which show their headers and a stock working clutch with fork.
A second picture is from their modified z bar.
But note: He said that he don't know if that application work with my car. They only have experiences with late 60 models!!
I don't want to buy parts which a can't use cause they won't fit!
I got a second reply from Gray @ american powertrain.
He offers me a complete hydro clutch kit and can give me a guarantee that this kit will work with my bellhousing etc.
only a small mod at the inner fender,thats it!

shown here:

http://www.americanpowertrain.com/cart.htm#ecwid:category=146603&mode=product&product=706967

that is not cheap but in the end i hope it will work...

What do you think??
Click to expand...

its a good kit. i have it new in the box. i havent gotten around to installing it yet...i think with that kit we need to figure out a 4 or 6 to 1 pedal ratio...meaning your foot moves 6 inches and the slave cylinder rod moves 1 inch...so we'd have to drill a hole in the pedal and mount the slave cylinder in a position to accommodate that...but, im still in mock up stages, not sure how im going to set it up.
 
Go hydraulic and don't look back.

Don't know what Brewers smokin, but hydraulic clutches are VERY reliable. How often do brakes leak? We don't use mechanical brakes, so why would you use a mechanical clutch engagement? By the time the hydraulic throwout bearing leaks you'll need a new clutch anyways.

Benefits to Hydraulic:

Fewer moving parts.

Easier peddle effort.

WAY more room for headers, and even if you can modify the Z bar the hydraulic is going to ease installation.

Regards,

Joe Dokes
 
Yes, will do so.

still waiting for a quote for the americanpowertrain parts to Germany.

Parts only are $620,00 ;-(((((((((((((((((((((((
 
Total side note, most of the time I don't pay too much attention to where members are from. So it is always a pleasant surprise to see a Mopar fan from Europe, Australia, or South America. Over the years I've noticed what appears to be an increasing number of American Muscle fans.

Best of luck on your project, hope the cost of shipping the parts all the way to Germany doesn't make an already expensive part completely unaffordable.

Regards,

Joe Dokes
 
Joe, for all the shipping costs i've paid i could by a new project car ;-)

that sucks
 
clutch kit is ordered and next week on the way to me.

Who need the pictures from Sam from TTI?. They show a 67 Dart with TTI headers and 4 speed trans.
I can post them here...
 
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